100 replies to this topic

[visionGT4]

Thanks for everyones intersting replies, id just lie to reiterate that IMHO the desired end goal is more viable chassis avialable for use at all levels (regardless of faction allegiance)

First the tech bases need to have a level of parity (aka balance):

1> a return to heavy quirkage for IS mechs - this will take significant education of the player base to avoid toys being thrown from sandpit
2> normalising the weapons and equipment - faction flavour will be diminished
3> ideally a combination of both where it 'makes sense'

PGI then have a baseline to start balancing the individual chassis

These both go hand in hand as far as im concerned - one without the other is just a waste of time

Edited by visionGT4, 09 January 2018 - 12:59 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

My wallet was never opened, simply because Clan/IS balance is a fool's errand and as long as they keep trying and don't accept that you can't balance the two because one is built from the ground up to be superior to the other, PGI will just continue to break the game. You could have built an IS tech game and balanced it. You could build a Clan tech game and balance it.

You can't balance them together unless you mixtech (which fundamentally negates much use from many IS pieces of equipment, as it should) or discard stock builds entirely in favor of "Clan in name only" using lowest common denominator tech to rebuild Clan designs into IS-tech style ones instead.

It's been like watching them try and balance a WWII game by adding 1970's era war technology and expecting prop planes to be balanced vs jet fighters with guided missiles.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Christophe Ivanov, on 09 January 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

There aint no so called "Balance" as most matches end up like 12-2 for example. Before all that, was closer to 6 to 8-12.

No it wasnt. Stomps became a common outcome right when 12v12 was introduced, long before the clans.

[Water Bear]

Cade Windstalker, on 09 January 2018 - 11:53 AM, said:

Most of my old Clan builds still feel decent, but none of my IS builds do because *there is so much better stuff now* at least in pub games.

Yea man. All my old IS 'mechs that have high mount missile hardpoints now have something to put in them. MRM 40's all around, finally giving us a high DPS missile weapon at moderate range that you can focus your build around. So many new options. Want to hill hump with a Mauler? Well now you can.

Take pretty much every build that had an autocannon in it and replace it with a UAC of the same size. Bam, way higher DPS. Got a 'mech with big side torsos that needs more weapon space? Light engine. So many new options...

[Mcgral18]

Brain Cancer, on 09 January 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:

My wallet was never opened, simply because Clan/IS balance is a fool's errand and as long as they keep trying and don't accept that you can't balance the two because one is built from the ground up to be superior to the other, PGI will just continue to break the game. You could have built an IS tech game and balanced it. You could build a Clan tech game and balance it.

You can't balance them together unless you mixtech (which fundamentally negates much use from many IS pieces of equipment, as it should) or discard stock builds entirely in favor of "Clan in name only" using lowest common denominator tech to rebuild Clan designs into IS-tech style ones instead.

It's been like watching them try and balance a WWII game by adding 1970's era war technology and expecting prop planes to be balanced vs jet fighters with guided missiles.

Blatantly incorrect


I could have better balance than PGI within 5 minutes, no Mixtech involved


That's how bad it is
It has to be on purpose, at this point. They fully support the Clam Apologists

[MW Waldorf Statler]

closed since 2016 ...all thats new Powercrap , awfull animations and the new Godzilla Mechs and Ugly Maps.. its not further interesting ...MWO is going more in Playstyle like Robocraft

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 09 January 2018 - 09:25 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Clan tech is hugely op.. God these customers and their hyperbole..

[Black Ivan]

Finally closed due to PGIs pushing and favouritism of Clans

[valrond]

Mcgral18, on 09 January 2018 - 06:57 AM, said:

Which explains the sub 15% Spheroid pick rate
It's not about imbalance at all!
It's all about skill....the skill of choosing the superior robots


Mwo is already Shooty Stompy Robots, there is no Lore
It's an arena shooter with an objectively superior faction

That was Hawken. And it died because it had no lore behind it to support it, like Battletech does.
Oh, and these are not robots, you dum dum. Robots move on their own.

[Karl Streiger]

Wallet is closed and locked since April last year - I will not support a company who's CO is showing such an arrogant ignorance of his customers.
Everybody might have a bad day (i have one today) but the when you are presenting a picture of your company its better to apologize for that day and do better next time.
So every comment every "hype" Russ Bullock tries to rise with MW5 just cause one reaction in my brain - liar.

A second reason is that MWO did destroy my graphic card on December the 27th - is it MWOs fault? Duno but There's no smoke without fire. With the money I spend for MWO I would have been able to buy me a new rack out of nothing.... well this would teach me to invest money in the future

Edited by Karl Streiger, 10 January 2018 - 02:34 AM.

[valrond]

visionGT4, on 09 January 2018 - 12:57 PM, said:

Thanks for everyones intersting replies, id just lie to reiterate that IMHO the desired end goal is more viable chassis avialable for use at all levels (regardless of faction allegiance)

First the tech bases need to have a level of parity (aka balance):

1> a return to heavy quirkage for IS mechs - this will take significant education of the player base to avoid toys being thrown from sandpit
2> normalising the weapons and equipment - faction flavour will be diminished
3> ideally a combination of both where it 'makes sense'

PGI then have a baseline to start balancing the individual chassis

These both go hand in hand as far as im concerned - one without the other is just a waste of time

So, you want clans and IS play the same? Which means less options and a more stale meta.
If you want that, go look for another game. This is battletech. Clans have been nerfed once and again, and they are no longer OP. Buy people here are still unable to make a real analysis taking into account all of the factors. They look at one: hey, the clan gauss is lighter than the IS; it's OP!. Or, the ER Med laser does more damage than the IS one, OP!.

What about the competitive FP? where IS can field and shoot 3 ER LL combined each time for 27 damage and 24 heat, while the clans only can do 2 ER LL for 22 damage and 21.6 heat?

What about the single slug shot the IS has that the clans don't have?

What about the huge armor and structure quirks that IS mech have than clans don't have?

There are a lot of factors to take into account, but IS apologist, or just battletech lore haters, what either clans do the unplayable, or just playing destroy this as a Battletech game.

I like Battletech, I have no preferences for IS or Clans, and the game right now is reasonably well balanced. Those who say it's not, the haven't been around here for long.

[Bud Crue]

valrond, on 10 January 2018 - 02:26 AM, said:

That was Hawken. And it died because it had no lore behind it to support it, like Battletech does.
Oh, and these are not robots, you dum dum. Robots move on their own.

Either you are trolling, or missing the point.

Tell me, how does THIS game describe the planet of Hesperus II?
"unknown" Yes, the answer is: Planetary description Unknown. Terra is the same. Most planets are. The ENTIRE lore of the end game mode is missing. There are brief descriptors of the clans and houses in the join FP -factions- screen and that is it. Their "immersive" game mode lacks any semblance of immersion...just like Hawken.

Go click the "Game" link above. It says the game is a shooter "set in the rich Battletech Universe". Find me the descriptions in this game of that rich Battletech universe. Better yet just find a small part of it; find me the "civil war era" mechs and tech descriptions, and then tell me what year it is in this "rich Battletech Universe". Well when you get back from sarna with the former (cuz there is no descriptions in game) you will have seen that much of the tech we have is from the 3060s era but according to PGI the official time line is 3057. So what "rich universe" are we in then? A parallel one to that of Battletech? An odd alternative one? Please, explain it.

PGI promised an immersive mechwarrior experience and above they continue to advertise it that way, but as far as I can tell we have an arena shooter with shooty stoompy robots (or maybe the guy in the VIP Atlas is really just that stupid) that is tangentially based on or related to the MW and BT games of old, but it sure as hell aint immersed in the rich battletech universe any more than Hawken was.

Change the names of the mechs and delete one screen in Faction play and this game could just as easily be called Russ Bullocks Ranged Robot Shoot em up online.

PGI made a choice to not leverage what they are paying for. To focus on esports than to utilize the IP that already existed to draw folks in. Hell even Russ in his various interviews of late has said that MW5...NOT MWO..is the game he is making for the MW/BT fans to give us the game "we've always wanted". Every time I read that I think, "no Russ, the game I wanted was MWO but with a little more effort from you and yours to make the game you actually advertise!"

[adamts01]

I've never seen a problem with Clan/IS balance. For every great thing a Clan mech could do, there was almost always a quirked IS mech that could do it better. What closed my wallet was the flop of CW, what cemented it shut was the light nerf.

[valrond]

Karl Streiger, on 10 January 2018 - 02:32 AM, said:

Wallet is closed and locked since April last year - I will not support a company who's CO is showing such an arrogant ignorance of his customers. Everybody might have a bad day (i have one today) but the when you are presenting a picture of your company its better to apologize for that day and do better next time. So every comment every "hype" Russ Bullock tries to rise with MW5 just cause one reaction in my brain - liar. A second reason is that MWO did destroy my graphic card on December the 27th - is it MWOs fault? Duno but There's no smoke without fire. With the money I spend for MWO I would have been able to buy me a new rack out of nothing.... well this would teach me to invest money in the future

How on earth is a game going to kill your graphic card? Not even Kombustor that uses a lot more power and generates more heat can do that.

You know graphic cards and cpus have shut down temps in order not to get burned, do you?

Edited by valrond, 10 January 2018 - 05:07 AM.

[valrond]

adamts01, on 10 January 2018 - 03:39 AM, said:

I've never seen a problem with Clan/IS balance. For every great thing a Clan mech could do, there was almost always a quirked IS mech that could do it better. What closed my wallet was the flop of CW, what cemented it shut was the light nerf.

There was a problem when the clans came out in 2014. Then they were wilding OP, specially the Mad Cat, cause they basically used the stats from the board game. I think back then the ER ML was 7 dmg and 5 heat, and they had the range from the game too, like 450m. So nearly a isLL from 1 ton. And IS had no quirks back then.

But as I say, clans been nerfed enough so they are more or less on par with IS.

[Nema Nabojiv]

valrond, on 10 January 2018 - 05:00 AM, said:

You know graphic cards and cpus have shut down temps in order not to get burned, do you?

Hardware and espacially videocards die regardless.
I've had about six to eight since 2005, and I had only one which didnt die in a few months after its warranty term expired.
I blame hardware manufacturers conspiracy here.

[Karl Streiger]

valrond, on 10 January 2018 - 05:00 AM, said:

How on earth is a game going to kill your graphic card? Not even Kombustor that uses a lot more power and generates more heat can do that.

You know graphic cards and cpus have shut down temps in order not to get burned, do you?

Well I thought the same - but after several ours windows logs, internet surfing and using several drivers I always end with the same issue - as soon as the drivers are the correct ones and the system says everything fine - the whole system crashes with a BSOD. Somewhere I read that faulty solder joints might be an issue - maybe those have a heat problem.

I think it was a coincidence that the BSOD appeared the moment I found a game on that day. Remember 27th December free items for a single game - and the MWO God decided those guy those freaking quarreler should not get free items.

I still have some hope that it is some very very strange software issue between some services and the graphic card... not that i know anything about that stuff - i might reset the system back to factory settings someday.

[Black Ivan]

Karl Streiger, on 10 January 2018 - 02:32 AM, said:

Wallet is closed and locked since April last year - I will not support a company who's CO is showing such an arrogant ignorance of his customers.
Everybody might have a bad day (i have one today) but the when you are presenting a picture of your company its better to apologize for that day and do better next time.
So every comment every "hype" Russ Bullock tries to rise with MW5 just cause one reaction in my brain - liar.

Couldn't say it better. I won't trust any promotion from PGI due to him.

[Mcgral18]

valrond, on 10 January 2018 - 05:05 AM, said:

But as I say, clans been nerfed enough so they are more or less on par with IS.

Which perfectly explains the sub 15% Spheroid pick rate in MWOWC

That is, mostly unquirked Clam mechs VS heavily quirked Spheroid robots



No faction imbalance at ALL, nope
All Skill



You're starting to sound like a Clam Apologist in denial

[K O Z A K]

The battle of OP whining, who will prevail clam apologists or spherophiles, the next round of nerfs will show which way the tide is shifting. Some pray for a time of lasting peace when mechs and weapons tomorrow are the same they are today, but I fear it will only come at the end of times (when the servers are shut down)