161 replies to this topic

[Seranov]

It's a hair smaller than the Commando. It'll be fine.

[Daggett]

Kotzi, on 18 January 2018 - 01:14 AM, said:

This mech caters to people who wait and let others do the work to reap the kills.

NRP, on 18 January 2018 - 06:56 AM, said:

So just like every other MG boating light.

Kotzi, on 18 January 2018 - 07:04 AM, said:

Yes thats how MGs are designed in this game, as there is no infantry. You wait untill the armor is breached.

You do know that each standard MG does 1DPS similar to many non-pulsing lasers, right? When boating enough MGs and 4+ tons of ammo you don't have to wait for the armor to be breached. Sure you pay for the perfect heat-efficiency with more facetime, but as soon as the enemy is distracted you can do a lot against armored targets without risking too much return fire especially when running 155kph like the Piranha does.

With 6+ MGs and some lasers it would be a waste to wait for others to do the armor-stripping work, you can do it all by yourself.
Sure, some players play MG-boats purely as late-game crit-seekers, but that does not mean that's the only way it can or should be played.

Edited by Daggett, 18 January 2018 - 08:31 AM.

[Khobai]

with 12 mg and 3 micro/small lasers/flamers, piranha is not really a late game crit seeker

thats enough firepower to breach armor especially since its indefinitely sustainable

which is why I think 8+ mg will get ghost heat. maybe not right away, but eventually.

Edited by Khobai, 18 January 2018 - 08:38 AM.

[stealthraccoon]

8 MGs are already on MLX, it’s not that much of a monster. Upping to 12 and giving 5 less tons is enough of a hindrance in the ammo department - no ghost heat needed, the scary fish just won’t have the endurance to wreck more than one fresh target....

...now if you managed to get a Wolfpack of them ....

[Metus regem]

Considering how much fun I have with a 7 HMG Shadowcat, I am going to c-bill the basic Piranha for sure.....

[N0ni]

Water Bear, on 18 January 2018 - 05:37 AM, said:

There's a certain COM-2D pilot I see from time to time who can generate jaw-dropping damage in a match.

There's only one i can think of and that's Yoki, can dance around everyone in that Commando (mostly because majority of pugs don't know how to deal with it). Great to go against, i'm just sorry i have to be the one to ruin the fun. xD

[Daggett]

stealthraccoon, on 18 January 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

8 MGs are already on MLX, it’s not that much of a monster. Upping to 12 and giving 5 less tons is enough of a hindrance in the ammo department - no ghost heat needed, the scary fish just won’t have the endurance to wreck more than one fresh target.... ...now if you managed to get a Wolfpack of them ....

If you mean endurance in terms of survivability: Probably, you can't expect to outlast beasts like a MCII-B with four arm-mounted ACs in the Piranha given the facetime you need.

But ammo-endurance is not much of a problem. As i wrote on the first page the Piranha can carry 5t of ammo which bring a damage-potential of 1200 against armor with standard-mgs and skills. That's enough to kill two fresh 100t assaults with STD-engine if you take out every single component one by one. But if you aim at least decently and do not spray your damage everywhere you have enough ammo for much more. If you survive long enough of cause...

Edit: For example you need about half a ton of standard-mg ammo to do a frontal XL-check against an unquirked and unskilled 100t assault ST. So even if you spray half your bullets to other locations or go against heavily quirked/skilled targets you still have enough ammo to do 5 XL-checks or to core 3-4 assault CTs in a 12MG Piranha.

Not to speak of sneaking behind those assaults and kill them with only a fraction of that ammo...

Edited by Daggett, 18 January 2018 - 09:35 AM.

[Brody319]

Its probably not going to change the meta but it will be fun as all hell and thats all I want from the Piranha.

[Tom Sawyer]

I am waiting on youtube for B33f to post his QUAD AMS griefing video

[Khobai]

Quote

8 MGs are already on MLX, it’s not that much of a monster. Upping to 12 and giving 5 less tons is enough of a hindrance in the ammo department - no ghost heat needed, the scary fish just won’t have the endurance to wreck more than one fresh target.... ...now if you managed to get a Wolfpack of them ....

uh its 12mg AND 3 lasers. and theyre not all in oversized arms, theyre in the better protected side torsos.

so its a considerable increase in firepower/survivability over the mistlynx. more than a 50% increase.

and yeah its enough that we probably need ghost heat on 8+ mgs

I know im not comfortable with piranhas doing higher sustained DPS than most assault mechs without generating any heat.

Edited by Khobai, 18 January 2018 - 10:55 AM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 18 January 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

and yeah its enough that we probably need ghost heat on 8+ mgs

Coding wise, that's not currently possible because Ghost Heat needs to multiply your base heat. Zero base heat means zero Ghost Heat. You'd have to make all MGs generate at least a tiny level of heat to make it function.

Although I still think that's stupid. I'd rather make MGs deal a flat damage bonus against structure (keeping average DPS approximately the same) and remove their ability to insta-delete equipment (so people can fight back).

[Khobai]

Quote

You'd have to make all MGs generate at least a tiny level of heat to make it function.

so just make them generate an imperceptible amount of heat. like .000001

its not a hard thing to implement.

Quote

I'd rather make MGs deal a flat damage bonus against structure

well ive been saying that for years

its counterintuitive for the crit system to do bonus damage to structure anyway.

because once you kill the structure of a location, getting crits in that location is pointless.

they should remove bonus structure damage on crits. and instead just give direct bonus structure damage to certain weapons (like mgs).

so there would be weapons that are good at critting like LBX (assuming LBX is buffed) and weapons that are good at killing structure like MGs.

Edited by Khobai, 18 January 2018 - 11:05 AM.

[ThreeStooges]

I almost bought the collector package. I love the fast lights and 20 ton clan mech with lct speed will be fun once I get one. Ach and mlx are far too common you already know their meta load out and how to kill them. The fish face will be new and exciting. I shall name all mine bruce after that movie shark.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Khobai, on 18 January 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

uh its 12mg AND 3 lasers. and theyre not all in oversized arms, theyre in the better protected side torsos.

2 of those lasers are in the arms ... the third is in center torso. Oh and with that stock loadout you have 1 ton of ammo which you'll chew through rather fast. Downsize those mlasers to ermicro? Congrat's you just got yourself 1,5 tons of extra ammo which is still a good half ton fewer than a good MLX build will have.

Khobai, on 18 January 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

so its a considerable increase in firepower/survivability over the mistlynx. more than a 50% increase.

~erm~ No?! A decent MLX built typically features 4 ersmalls along with 6 to 8 machine guns that run on 3t ammo with 20 or more points of frontal armor on each section (except the head). Unless the Piranha happens to be superquirked his survivability is certainly not a 50% higher ... and while the machine gun firepower can indeed be 50% to even 100% higher, the energy based firepower just isn't: either too hot and too long cooldown or 25%+ lower. And most of its speed superiority has to compensate for the lack of Jump Jets that thy Lynx has.

Khobai, on 18 January 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

and yeah its enough that we probably need ghost heat on 8+ mgs

We might indeed see something like that ... but certainly not because of your false numbers and incorrect assessments

Khobai, on 18 January 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

I know im not comfortable with piranhas doing higher sustained DPS than most assault mechs without generating any heat.

So that's the real issue there, right? A higher sustained DPS in close combat with "paper thin" armor and even with those 12 machine guns the need for some serious face time before things really will get ugly.

[Mcgral18]

Tom Sawyer, on 18 January 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

I am waiting on youtube for B33f to post his QUAD AMS griefing video

I wonder how many seconds it will take for quad LAMS to shut down
Remember, the Piranha doesn't have 10 TrueDubs either, and I'm doubtful PGI will rightfully give it the quirk because of that.

[Khobai]

Quote

So that's the real issue there, right? A higher sustained DPS in close combat with "paper thin" armor and even with those 12 machine guns the need for some serious face time before things really will get ugly.

paper thin armor doesnt matter when you can facehug assaults like the annihilator and they cant shoot you because their weapons cant pitch down far enough.

Quote

A decent MLX built typically features 4 ersmalls along with 6 to 8 machine guns

but it loses the lasers too when it loses its arms

and its arms are very easy to shoot off

the mist lynx is just plain bad compared to the piranha

the piranha being 20 tons lets clans frontload their dropdecks by 5 extra tons too

Edited by Khobai, 18 January 2018 - 03:24 PM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Khobai, on 18 January 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

paper thin armor doesnt matter when you can facehug assaults like the annihilator and they cant shoot you because their weapons cant pitch down far enough.

Time to get some torso pitch nodes then?

Khobai, on 18 January 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

but it loses the lasers too when it loses its arms

number of lasers on a Piranha after both arms are lost: 1 center torso

number of laser on a Mist Lynx after both arms are lost: 2 right torso

Khobai, on 18 January 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

and its arms are very easy to shoot off

You seriously expect the Piranha's arm being taken off less easy?

Khobai, on 18 January 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

the mist lynx is just plain bad compared to the piranha

Yeah right ... so far you were very "convincing" with your accurate numbers and decpictions.

Khobai, on 18 January 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

the piranha being 20 tons lets clans frontload their dropdecks by 5 extra tons too

This plays into your list of the Piranha's alleged 50% more survivability, firepower. etc. how exactly?

Don't get me wrong here ... the Piranha certainly can and most likely will affect Clan drop decks but the mech itself doesn't miraculously turn into that "super mech" you repeatedly tried to make it out to be.

[Snowbluff]

ThreeStooges, on 18 January 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

I almost bought the collector package. I love the fast lights and 20 ton clan mech with lct speed will be fun once I get one. Ach and mlx are far too common you already know their meta load out and how to kill them. The fish face will be new and exciting. I shall name all mine bruce after that movie shark.

If you need a bigger boat, that friendly CDS representative in the water can surely sell you one.

#diamondshark4life

Edited by Snowbluff, 18 January 2018 - 04:15 PM.

[FupDup]

Der Geisterbaer, on 18 January 2018 - 03:45 PM, said:

Time to get some torso pitch nodes then?

Those nodes don't actually help much because they're percentage based, and fairly small percentages at that. Since the base pitch values are low, percentage buffs to them will be low as well.

[Cyrion]

I love how people are already calling for nerfs because of a LIGHT mech that isn't even out yet.

As if Light mechs don't have enough problems already. A bunch of them got hosed with the release of the skill maze in regards to their agility. Spuds cried about small pulse so that got taken away. Strike spam got introduced which means you're risking being obliterated from something you won't even be able to see coming. Oh, and as if it wasn't easy enough for players with good aim to leg you or one shot you with Gauss/Peep before, now we have Heavy Gauss. And the ones that can't aim have ATMs!

But OH-EM-GEEE guys! It's totes unfair that a 20-ton mech has to get within 100m of you, risk all that light mechs normally risk, and then on top of that has to sit and Carebear-stare you with their MGs! Let's add Ghost Heat to MGs!! /doublefacepalm

Every single light mech in the game besides one is dangerous as hell to play and can easily see you wiped out at the start of a match. That mech? Yeah, it's an IS mech. And it doesn't need 8 or 12 MGs. It only needs 4. The Urbie. I just today had 6 kills, 4 KMDD, and 1100 damage in the R60. And that wasn't some once-in-a-blue-moon game, either. I routinely rack up the damage and kills with that thing. I can 1v1 anything except an Assault with Heavy Gauss. So we need to preemptively nerf MGs (AGAIN) because of the Piranha, a mech that isn't even out yet, but THAT mech with the armor of a heavy is ok?

If you can't swat a 20-ton, no-JJ, non-ECM mech that requires boat-loads of facetime then that's on you. There's a reason the Locust is deader than a doornail since the Skill Maze/Ultra-Nerfening. I'll see a Pirate's Bane once every 50 games or so because of Stealth Armor, but the other variants are toast. But hey, let's wreck the one weapon system lights have going for them. Wouldn't want all the whales who trundle out their LRM-500 Assaults and stand in the back by themselves to get mad and quit forking over money.

Edited by Cyrion, 18 January 2018 - 04:30 PM.