325 replies to this topic

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Honeybadgers, on 21 January 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

PGI are so terrified of power creep that they've gone in the extreme opposite direction.

I know right? It's ridiculous. In a game like this power creep should never be a concern. Balance with buffs, if TTK goes up, increase armor, if numbers get too bloated then decrease armor and weapon damage in equal measure, rinse and repeat.

People have been complaining about power creep for years and now PGI has heard it loud and clear and they're terrified of any large scale buffing.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

justcallme A S H, on 21 January 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

1. Full second? Incorrect
2. It takes less than 0.20 seconds extra to cooldown

cERPPC is still more advanced than anything IS PPC, fact.

Incorrect? Did you read that patch notes? The cooldown, AKA the cycle time of the cERPPC is going to be increased from 4.5 seconds to 5 seconds. The IS ERPPC which appears to be receiving no changes in this patch is currently sitting at a cycle time of 4 seconds.

I won't insult you with the math but that is a full second longer cooldown. Not sure if you thought he was saying something about the heat generated, or what, but the 'full second' has to do with the fire rate of the gun.

[Mcgral18]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 21 January 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

Incorrect? Did you read that patch notes? The cooldown, AKA the cycle time of the cERPPC is going to be increased from 4.5 seconds to 5 seconds. The IS ERPPC which appears to be receiving no changes in this patch is currently sitting at a cycle time of 4 seconds.

I won't insult you with the math but that is a full second longer cooldown. Not sure if you thought he was saying something about the heat generated, or what, but the 'full second' has to do with the fire rate of the gun.

Would you rather take the 3 slot 7 ton 10 damage isERPPC
or
The 6 ton 2 slot 15 damage cERPPC


Unless it hits 7 seconds, cERPPC every time

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Mcgral18, on 21 January 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:

Would you rather take the 3 slot 7 ton 10 damage isERPPC
or
The 6 ton 2 slot 15 damage cERPPC


Unless it hits 7 seconds, cERPPC every time

What would I rather take doesn't matter Mcgral, the statement made by A S H was patently false, intentional or not.

And if you really must know what I would rather take, as soon the cooldown with skills goes higher than 4 seconds I would rather take the 3 slot 7 ton 10 damage isERPPC thank you very much. I'd rather have 5 inferior PPCs with heavily varying stats and roles that I can pick from, than one optimal cERPPC with which I have to live with whatever role PGI puts it in.

Unfortunately if I want a battlemech with MASC Jump Jets ECM and enough pod space for the PPC and a pair of streak 4s, it's going to have to be clan, because there is only one mech matching that description.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 21 January 2018 - 06:49 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Nema Nabojiv, on 21 January 2018 - 05:19 PM, said:

well then we can all agree such a minor nerf can be safely canceled without any impact on the state of the balance.

Sure can.

[TAPAH 483-K]

Need more tons for faction play on clan side

[PocketYoda]

Good to see some clan nerfs finally well done PGI maybe not as bias as i first thought.

[Honeybadgers]

Mcgral18, on 21 January 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:

Would you rather take the 3 slot 7 ton 10 damage isERPPC
or
The 6 ton 2 slot 15 damage cERPPC


Unless it hits 7 seconds, cERPPC every time

In terms of everyday utility and not alpha strike potential, I'd take the IS er PPC every time.

Because I still actually run an is PPC from time to time on my mechs. Any time I think about an er PPC on my mechs like a nov cat, I just remember how unusable it is and switch back to quad LPL.

[Mcgral18]

Honeybadgers, on 21 January 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

In terms of everyday utility and not alpha strike potential, I'd take the IS er PPC every time.

Because I still actually run an is PPC from time to time on my mechs. Any time I think about an er PPC on my mechs like a nov cat, I just remember how unusable it is and switch back to quad LPL.

LPL is too nerfed. Sad, too, since it was one of the few Sphere VS Clam weapons which were balanced asymmetrically rather nicely. Now both worthless

HLL is where its at now

[Lyons De Flamand]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 21 January 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

Unfortunately if I want a battlemech with MASC Jump Jets ECM and enough pod space for the PPC and a pair of streak 4s, it's going to have to be clan, because there is only one mech matching that description.

Not asking for much are ya? Even not talking about the fact that there is no IS Mech that could run that setup

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Lyons De Flamand, on 21 January 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

Not asking for much are ya? Even not talking about the fact that there is no IS Mech that could run that setup

I dunno, I'm just asking for what I've had for two and a half years, a mech that wasn't rocking the boat, using weapon systems that weren't rocking the boat (barring specific quirked chassis that have become a problem in the last year). I didn't have a problem when PPCs had low velocity either, I miss the days before it was a popular weapon system.

And on that note I really do wish IS could get a mech with a playstyle equivalent to the Shadowcat. It's a fun dynamic that I'd like to see explored with IS tech.

Probably have to make it a 55 tonner, cap the engine size at 330, give every variant the ability to use up to 6 JJs, then have a single variant with anemic hard-points, one energy in the right arm, one missile in each side torso, but compensate by giving it ECM CT and MASC in one of the STs. Maaaybe throw in a hero with ECM no MASC but with a ballistic.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 21 January 2018 - 10:02 PM.

[SPNKRGrenth]

If the IS medium pulse lasers being so close range compared to the Clan ones is such a big deal, why not do something crazy and buff the IS medium pulse laser optimal range by 20 meters and max range by 40 meters, instead of nerfing one of the Clan weapons that ISN'T a problem.

I mean it worked fine for when the IS small laser was buffed from 130 to 150, or the heavy machine gun from 80 to 100, really helped them be more usable without going overboard. So doing the same for IS medium pulse lasers should have a similar effect.

Edited by SPNKRGrenth, 21 January 2018 - 09:53 PM.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Arkhangel, on 19 January 2018 - 10:23 PM, said:

You know, someday you guys are gonna figure that the changes made in the patch notes are from actual unbiased data they got over time.

If that were truly the case, then the Assassin would have gotten its hit boxes fixed months ago, to say nothing of the quirks. Unbiased my butt.

So the Clans get yet another round of the nerf bat while the IS gets some buffs and maintains at least one broken medium mech (I hate Assassin rushes), figures.

Edited by Jep Jorgensson, 22 January 2018 - 11:08 PM.

[a gaijin]

InnerSphereNews, on 19 January 2018 - 08:29 PM, said:

Heat Gen Nodes

IS and Clan Heat Gen Nodes now have separate values in the Firepower Tree.

Inner Sphere values remain unchanged.

• -0.75% per Node.
• -10.5% total.

Clan values have been adjusted to the following:

• -0.6% per Node (down from -0.75%).
• -8.4% total.


[color="#3073f3"]Heat Gen Design Notes:[/color][color="#3073f3"] After reviewing the net benefit provided by the Heat Gen Nodes within the Firepower Tree, we have determined that the original values were providing inflated benefits on the Clan side compared to the benefits offered for IS 'Mechs. This change is therefore aimed at bringing the net benefits between the two factions closer in line, accounting for a typical Clan Loadout and a typical Inner Sphere Loadout.[/color]


Clan Medium Pulse Laser

• Max Range reduced to 480 (from 561).

[color="#3073f3"]Clan Medium Pulse Laser Design Notes:[/color][color="#3073f3"] Due to the 50% extra Optimal Range over the IS Medium Pulse Laser, the Max Range of the Clan Medium Pulse Laser extended to a point where it was being utilized in ways that we felt made the weapon too much of a generalist compared to its IS counterpart. The Max Range has therefore been reduced to a point where there is much closer parity between the two weapons in terms of Max Range. However, the Clans will continue to possess superior Optimal Range and Damage.[/color]

Clan ER PPC

• Cooldown increased to 5 (from 4.5).

[color="#3073f3"]Clan ER PPC Design Notes:[/color][color="#3073f3"] While we are satisfied with the ER PPCs effectiveness in ranged combat, this change is intended to provide a slightly longer window over which closer-ranged opponents can attempt to pressure Clan ER PPC carriers when they are caught out of position.[/color]

this is so hilarious!! XD lol
Just make the IS and Clan tech's the exact same already! It's not like anyone cares at this point. I mean...that's what the whole "balancing thing" is aiming for anyhow, right?
Stop beating around the bush with dartboard-powered balancing passes and just make the weapon systems same on both sides.

This isnt really a MechWarrior game in anything but name anyhow and we all know it... it's still fun though. And people will still play.

So, pgi, just help me help you by taking this advice:
stop trying to kill yourselves balancing IS and Clan and just make them the exact same already.
Everyone will forgive you, pgi. Relax-- It's okay

[Dago Red]

SPNKRGrenth, on 21 January 2018 - 09:50 PM, said:

If the IS medium pulse lasers being so close range compared to the Clan ones is such a big deal, why not do something crazy and buff the IS medium pulse laser optimal range by 20 meters and max range by 40 meters, instead of nerfing one of the Clan weapons that ISN'T a problem.

I mean it worked fine for when the IS small laser was buffed from 130 to 150, or the heavy machine gun from 80 to 100, really helped them be more usable without going overboard. So doing the same for IS medium pulse lasers should have a similar effect.

I actually agree with this.

I hardly mount IS pulses of any flavor on any mech currently because the extra wright isn't worth the minuscule damage increase, the usual range bracket of engagement has moved out far enough that they're not useful for trading, and hit reg is enough better these days that most standard laser damage actually registers.

Even if they functioned at exactly standard laser ranges the extra weight is still less heat syncs you can load in to allow for follow up shots.

Making clan pulses equally "niche" isn't going to do anything but move people who previously used them for for variety into reconfiguring their pulse mechs into just more laser vom.

[justcallme A S H]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 21 January 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

Incorrect? Did you read that patch notes? The cooldown, AKA the cycle time of the cERPPC is going to be increased from 4.5 seconds to 5 seconds.

Last time I checked 5.0 minus 4.5 was... 0.50

Mcgral18, on 21 January 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:

Would you rather take the 3 slot 7 ton 10 damage isERPPC
or
The 6 ton 2 slot 15 damage cERPPC

Unless it hits 7 seconds, cERPPC every time

Jack Shayu Walker, on 21 January 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

if you really must know what I would rather take, as soon the cooldown with skills goes higher than 4 seconds I would rather take the 3 slot 7 ton 10 damage isERPPC thank you very much. I'd rather have 5 inferior PPCs with heavily varying stats and roles that I can pick from, than one optimal cERPPC with which I have to live with whatever role PGI puts it in.

Honeybadgers, on 21 January 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

In terms of everyday utility and not alpha strike potential, I'd take the IS er PPC every time.

Because I still actually run an is PPC from time to time on my mechs. Any time I think about an er PPC on my mechs like a nov cat, I just remember how unusable it is and switch back to quad LPL.

lol, confirmed users with no idea what constitutes a overpowered / strong weapon based on simple calculations taking into account the greater picture.

The cERPPC will still be the GOD of PPCs in the game. This adjustment does not change that one iota.

Don't believe me? Wait until you see all the top end comp players running IS PPCs in the next season of comp play.

Actually you will wait - because there won't be any.

[valrond]

Samial, on 21 January 2018 - 07:52 PM, said:

Good to see some clan nerfs finally well done PGI maybe not as bias as i first thought.

Finally? Dude, there is a clan nerf in every freaking patch. Last month's patch nerfed the cERLL, now all the heat and the cMPL, while the IS gets more buffs.

I'm sick of nerf after nerf, after nerf.

And now they release 3 clan mechs in a row (Piranha, Black Lanner and Sun Spider), and want us to buy some nerfed crap.
Not buying. Vote with my wallet.

Oh, and unlike many of you, I'm not just a one side player. I play MWO, I have mechs from both sides, but seeing the same side getting nerfed and the other one buffed makes me sick.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

justcallme A S H, on 22 January 2018 - 01:36 AM, said:

Last time I checked 5.0 minus 4.5 was... 0.50

Last time I checked 5.0 (new clan cERPPC) minus 4.0 (IS ERPPC) was... 1.00. I presume you've just misunderstood what we said and am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not being willfully ignorant, or trying to make a strawman argument. My goal is to stay on track here. Someone pointed out that the disparity in cycle time after the patch between the clan ERPPC and the IS ERPPC will be one second. This was objectively correct, but I believe you asserted they were incorrect, insisting that the disparity would be 0.2 seconds, which is quantifiably false.

justcallme A S H, on 22 January 2018 - 01:36 AM, said:

lol, confirmed users with no idea what constitutes a overpowered / strong weapon based on simple calculations taking into account the greater picture.

The cERPPC will still be the GOD of PPCs in the game. This adjustment does not change that one iota.

Don't believe me? Wait until you see all the top end comp players running IS PPCs in the next season of comp play.

Actually you will wait - because there won't be any.

*sigh* not capable of showing the slightest iota of common courtesy or politeness are we? Just going to go with the "lols" and good old fashioned "confirmed" memes and strawman arguments instead? I was hoping you would pay more attention, because I don't really think your dumb, but you seem to be missing the point each and every time someone says something to you.

I stated my reasons for my preference, and I don't feel shy in saying I think they are fairly logical. I'll wait and let you read them again, and if you feel up to constructively sharing your opinion on those preferences, I am prepared to listen.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 22 January 2018 - 02:05 AM.

[Yumoshiri]

oh my love, we'll be united soon! Ohh the joy. The tears.
I know I won't be able to fit a UAC20 on you, but that's okay, we'll find love elsewhere.
Let's see how much HML can fit in this little stinker to insta suicide kill an assault mech in the ***, it would be just as fun as hiding behind an LRM boat with 4 AMS.

[Tarl Cabot]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 21 January 2018 - 06:18 PM, said:

I know right? It's ridiculous. In a game like this power creep should never be a concern. Balance with buffs, if TTK goes up, increase armor, if numbers get too bloated then decrease armor and weapon damage in equal measure, rinse and repeat.



People have been complaining about power creep for years and now PGI has heard it loud and clear and they're terrified of any large scale buffing.

Now I am NOT against increasing armor/structure percentages but the reverse would happen and it affects mechs in several ways across the board, even those which can not equip said weapon then we are back in the same place. People would complain that with the Skill tree, xXx mech with its firepower takes too long to kill, or lights due to hit regs is nigh unkillable without streaks .... but now no increase in ammo numbers now the need to equip MORE AMMO to do the same job for non-energy weapons, and I am sure I am missing some things.

I will say it is like they have two teams (or two people) working here with focus on different subset for each side, one for the IS and one for the Clans. And for Clan tech, PGI has been seesawing back and forth, in a similar manner they have always done with decreasing/removing IS quirks, especially before the new Skill Tree. The one thing the Clans have not had MUCH most times have been quirks.....