325 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Conner Ward, on 20 January 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:

If I did not love Clan Wolf so much, I would feel stupid for choosing to play Clans. The amount of heat that most Clan weapons generate causes Clan players to fire very infrequently and the damage that Clan weapons do in this game does not really compensate for this. I guess the point of all these nerfs is just to keep Clans in a "sniper" role where we fire a high-damage long range alpha and then hide for two or three minutes until we can do it again?

It literally does compensate for it. In spades. Here's the table if you want to see.

Clan Lights are the 'Mechs that are suffering the most, because all of the light-weight lasers can be super-cooled and boated in such quantities on the heavier 'Mechs that they can't be cold enough for Lights to actually use them. That, or they had to destroy the damage output on them (rip cSPL).

[Conner Ward]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 January 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

It literally does compensate for it. In spades. Here's the table if you want to see.

Clan Lights are the 'Mechs that are suffering the most, because all of the light-weight lasers can be super-cooled and boated in such quantities on the heavier 'Mechs that they can't be cold enough for Lights to actually use them. That, or they had to destroy the damage output on them (rip cSPL).

I have not chosen a light Mech yet, but I was probably going to get an Arctic Cheetah. So far, I have done best in my Gargoyle, even though it took many games to get the build right and to get it leveled up. I am going to stick with Clans and find ways to make the Mechs work for me though.

[Y E O N N E]

Conner Ward, on 20 January 2018 - 02:11 PM, said:

I have not chosen a light Mech yet, but I was probably going to get an Arctic Cheetah. So far, I have done best in my Gargoyle, even though it took many games to get the build right and to get it leveled up. I am going to stick with Clans and find ways to make the Mechs work for me though.

For the ACH, MGs with your choice of Heavy Mediums or ER Mediums is the most reliable build. Can probably do fine with 6x cERSL (I do this on one of my MLX), but it's not a match for the pre-nerf 6x cSPL. You can also run 7x cSPL, but that's pretty darn hot for only 28 damage.

I wish the Jenner IIC wasn't such trash due to its size and sluggish handling. Might have a few more options then since you can adjust the engine to get more sinks.

[Conner Ward]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 January 2018 - 02:18 PM, said:

For the ACH, MGs with your choice of Heavy Mediums or ER Mediums is the most reliable build. Can probably do fine with 6x cERSL (I do this on one of my MLX), but it's not a match for the pre-nerf 6x cSPL. You can also run 7x cSPL, but that's pretty darn hot for only 28 damage.

I wish the Jenner IIC wasn't such trash due to its size and sluggish handling. Might have a few more options then since you can adjust the engine to get more sinks.

I am a Clan Warrior so I will go with the Arctic Cheetah and leave the Jenner to the Solahma. I have enough Mechs for now though, so I am going to save my Cbills until there is another sale though.

[SFC174]

Arrow 6, on 20 January 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

Main balance strategy since skill tree hit has been a leveling down everything OP. How about a change of culture and buff underrated features instead?.

Like you, I and others have advocated for this in this thread. I think the number one reason it would be better is that nerfs tend to take a mech/build that feels good to play and make it no fun anymore. Buffing the competition doesn't make your mech feel less fun, but it means the competition gets increased fun. Yes, powercreep concerns and all that, but fun is important.

Think on all the critical nerfs over the last year or so.

CSPL nerfs made that fast but fragile lights no longer as fun to play. You couldn't deliver enough damage quickly enough to compensate for the risk of being one-shot while you worked your way around the enemy. Was the CSPL OP? Yes, but the nerf went so far as to make it useless. A smaller nerf (5 dmg?) plus a IS SPL buff would've made more sense.

The engine desync killed the ability of many heavy and assault mechs (the latter especially) to up-engine and dance in close during brawls. What used to be a preference choice (mobility vs. more firepower) was taken away and the game lost variety because of it.

The medium laser nerfs on both sides hurt lots of mechs, but particularly lights and mediums without the tonnage to take big weapons.

I'm sure there are a ton of other examples, but PGI's tendency to attempt to balance through nerfs more than buffs makes the game less fun to play. I want balance. I'd like for a lot of my IS robots to be something better than dusty chunks of metal occupying a mech bay. But nerfing my clan mechs doesn't make those IS variants feel any better. Lowest common denominator isn't fun.

[MovinTarget]

TWIAFU, on 20 January 2018 - 12:59 PM, said:

Just remove all clan tech and replace it with IS tech, just name it clan.

same values, same heat, same weight, duration, same everything.

Make it so Clan and IS is the very same. Balance! Nobody gets anything that is better, make it all the same.

ONLY difference between Clan and IS is HUD color, laser color, and how a mech looks.

Nobody can claim OP anymore.

Be done with it and end people crying that thier easier button is a little less easier.

You forgot homogenized hardpoints

[GenericPilotName]

I don't ever comment on the forums, but... the Adder Prime in a (mostly) stock config is my favorite mech, and you've made it harder and harder to play with the PPC changes. Let's call this preemptive venting...

I guess having to wait longer between shots will also offset the worse heat gen, but bleh. Already took a DPS hit with past patches. And I already have to work hard enough to maintain offset and not find myself out of position so I can do damage over time. I see additional frustration ahead.

Also Assassin nerf seems tame and doesn't address their invulnerability glitches...

Aaand I fear for my life more with HGauss.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Why did you nerf Clan ERPPCs again!? You desync'd them from the Gauss Rifles, for the love of God just leave them alone. If your PPC quirked mechs are causing a problem then modify the quirks. I just want to run a light mech with a single CERPPC, and every time cERPPCs get touched it gets worse.

I'm done plugging cash into this game until my Kitfox and Shadowcat are playable again.

We don't need bigger windows for CQC mechs to kill cERPPC mechs, there is nothing wrong with a skilled pilot with a couple of PPCs killing a CQC mech with repetitive well placed shots.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 20 January 2018 - 04:36 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

SFC174, on 20 January 2018 - 02:40 PM, said:

Like you, I and others have advocated for this in this thread. I think the number one reason it would be better is that nerfs tend to take a mech/build that feels good to play and make it no fun anymore. Buffing the competition doesn't make your mech feel less fun, but it means the competition gets increased fun. Yes, powercreep concerns and all that, but fun is important.

Think on all the critical nerfs over the last year or so.

CSPL nerfs made that fast but fragile lights no longer as fun to play. You couldn't deliver enough damage quickly enough to compensate for the risk of being one-shot while you worked your way around the enemy. Was the CSPL OP? Yes, but the nerf went so far as to make it useless. A smaller nerf (5 dmg?) plus a IS SPL buff would've made more sense.

The engine desync killed the ability of many heavy and assault mechs (the latter especially) to up-engine and dance in close during brawls. What used to be a preference choice (mobility vs. more firepower) was taken away and the game lost variety because of it.

The medium laser nerfs on both sides hurt lots of mechs, but particularly lights and mediums without the tonnage to take big weapons.

I'm sure there are a ton of other examples, but PGI's tendency to attempt to balance through nerfs more than buffs makes the game less fun to play. I want balance. I'd like for a lot of my IS robots to be something better than dusty chunks of metal occupying a mech bay. But nerfing my clan mechs doesn't make those IS variants feel any better. Lowest common denominator isn't fun.

Exactly this. I honestly think I am gonna have to call it here. The mech I loved most in this game was my shadowcat with a single cERPPC and 8 tubes of streaks. It used to be a flexible light hunter that could put okay DPS on larger targets while ducking and weaving, and mastering the art of that ducking and weaving between shots was what made it fun. What was that? back when the cERPPC had a cooldown of like 3.75? 3.25?

It used to be a flexible weapon; but in their quest for nerf-based balance, PGI decided it should just be another sniper weapon, like LRMs or what have you. 5 seconds? Are you serious? That puts the final nail in; the weapon's quick tempo and excitement is dead. What am I supposed to do for 5 seconds?

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 20 January 2018 - 04:59 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

cERPPC cool-down was 4 before it was the current 4.5. I don't think it has ever been shorter than 4 seconds, but we did have modules and the original skill system previously to speed it up.

I don't really like this cERPPC nerf, either. I didn't think the same exact nerf to the HPPC was warranted, and for the same reasons I don't think this one is, either.

Lasers dominate >>> nerf ERPPCs.

I get that they were popular in MWOWC, but that was on two specific 'Mechs with specific strengths that make them solid to run. Strengths that are being augmented with quirks and that aren't necessarily straight-up better than the laser/gauss vomit.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 20 January 2018 - 05:28 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 January 2018 - 05:05 PM, said:

cERPPC cool-down was 4 before it was the current 4.5. I don't think it has ever been shorter than 4 seconds, but we did have modules and the original skill system previously to speed it up.

I don't really like this cERPPC nerf, either. I didn't think the same exact nerf to the HPPC was warranted, and for the same reasons I don't think this one is, either.

Lasers dominate >>> nerf ERPPCs.

I get that they were popular in MWOWC, but that was on two specific 'Mechs with specific strengths that make they sold to run. Strengths that are being augmented with quirks and that aren't necessarily straight-up better than the laser/gauss vomit.

I was honestly interested in coming back for Solaris, but I can't take it anymore. Only a single mech in my original stable of favorites will still be playable after this. Everything else no longer functions because PGI wanted to shoehorn one weapon or another into a different role and wouldn't stand for said weapon to be flexible in any regard. So long cSPL, and so long cERPPC.

I could have held on if the skill tree would have just let me invest deeper into upgrading the cooldown of just a single weapon. I just need the one cERPPC to fire every 3.5/4 seconds, was that too much?

[JuIius]

MechMasochistOnline.... stop that dumbfuc* Clan nerfs! Are there only brainafk IS Fanboys doing this "Balance" thingy?

Free to play or not... playing a Game should be fun... and not getting a kick in the *** with one lovely patch after the other.

They have Probelms with the "Balance" for years now... then doing this awesome new Skilltree(makes it much easier to balance when you have so many different shi* you can skill ). Changing this and that for no reason... and dont forget to nerf the ***** Clanners.... i bet you get a bonus when you work for PGI and find something new to nerf on clanside.

loggin in these days.... pick a mech... think about.... and exit the game... thx PGI great game

[cougurt]

SFC174, on 20 January 2018 - 02:40 PM, said:

Like you, I and others have advocated for this in this thread. I think the number one reason it would be better is that nerfs tend to take a mech/build that feels good to play and make it no fun anymore. Buffing the competition doesn't make your mech feel less fun, but it means the competition gets increased fun. Yes, powercreep concerns and all that, but fun is important.

Think on all the critical nerfs over the last year or so.

CSPL nerfs made that fast but fragile lights no longer as fun to play. You couldn't deliver enough damage quickly enough to compensate for the risk of being one-shot while you worked your way around the enemy. Was the CSPL OP? Yes, but the nerf went so far as to make it useless. A smaller nerf (5 dmg?) plus a IS SPL buff would've made more sense.

The engine desync killed the ability of many heavy and assault mechs (the latter especially) to up-engine and dance in close during brawls. What used to be a preference choice (mobility vs. more firepower) was taken away and the game lost variety because of it.

The medium laser nerfs on both sides hurt lots of mechs, but particularly lights and mediums without the tonnage to take big weapons.

I'm sure there are a ton of other examples, but PGI's tendency to attempt to balance through nerfs more than buffs makes the game less fun to play. I want balance. I'd like for a lot of my IS robots to be something better than dusty chunks of metal occupying a mech bay. But nerfing my clan mechs doesn't make those IS variants feel any better. Lowest common denominator isn't fun.

agreed completely. there are certainly cases where nerfs are warranted, but the vast majority of them have only resulted in reduced build diversity, as well as a lot of collateral damage to mechs that may have only been passable to begin with.

buff the things that don’t see much use, and do a balance pass on mobility values and survivability quirks across the board.

[Eagle_Owl_Kr]

IS MPL is bad.. so only few ppl using now, so they think clan should not use MPL like IS? then why just buff IS MPL as like Clan? that will be more effective patch for the game.

[McHoshi]

The Assassin is all right as he is - the nerf was totally unnecessary.

[GamerPro4000]

With the new Clan Medium Pulse getting more heat is understandable, but this really hurts me as a medium mech player in FW Scout play. Please do a balance scouting mode between IS and Clan mechs.

[mdmzero0]

Man, you clanners are priceless. Please, PLEASE switch to IS mechs for even just a short while. Maybe it'll give you all some perspective.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

mdmzero0, on 20 January 2018 - 07:43 PM, said:

Man, you clanners are priceless. Please, PLEASE switch to IS mechs for even just a short while. Maybe it'll give you all some perspective.

I have IS is doing fine. Some pieces of equipment are in need of buffs, but when IS works it works well.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 20 January 2018 - 08:24 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 20 January 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

I have IS is doing fine. Some pieces of equipment are in need of buffs, but when IS works it works well.

IS do okay in brawls and they have extreme long range options. It's in the middle, arguably where most of the game happens, where they have issues. They certainly don't do PPCs as well, they have issues keeping them cold enough for the same kind of sustained output (ERs deal more heat than damage...the only energy weapon in the game where this is true).

[Dee Eight]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 January 2018 - 01:18 PM, said:

It literally does compensate for it. In spades. Here's the table if you want to see.

Clan Lights are the 'Mechs that are suffering the most, because all of the light-weight lasers can be super-cooled and boated in such quantities on the heavier 'Mechs that they can't be cold enough for Lights to actually use them. That, or they had to destroy the damage output on them (rip cSPL).

Yes on the boating issue... no on the damage output of the cSPL... it never should have been six at any stage.