108 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

LordNothing, on 22 January 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

crazy machine gun boats are going to be less effective than people think they are. a dedicated mg boat is going to either get lucky and have team mates punch holes in armor or they wont, and their results will depend on that. more practical players are going to use the laser+mg builds instead and the results wont be too different from current 6-8 mg builds.

the big issue is going to be ammunition. like any other light its going to be very limited and ammo capacity nodes are going to be pretty much mandatory.

12 DPS is 12 DPS
12 DPS is also 24 DPS, because reasons

It's what the ShaqHawk does with 3 AC2s and 27% cooldown nodes
Just without heat, and almost the same ammo potential too


800 damage with an ERML, or 1000 with only MGs
Bear in mind, once you hit structure, you DOUBLE your MG damage, so that 800 goes much further

[Khobai]

Quote

Bear in mind, once you hit structure, you DOUBLE your MG damage, so that 800 goes much further

machine guns only do about 12% more damage to structure, not double

[Lily from animove]

November11th, on 20 January 2018 - 02:13 PM, said:

I know its a troll mech.

isn't exactly that the only reason why people wanted it in first place?

Also why is no one psoting about utilising flamers with it? flamer shut down opps then chew through their back, might work as well.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 January 2018 - 01:43 AM.

[ANOM O MECH]

Promessa, on 20 January 2018 - 11:41 AM, said:

lmg's weigh the same.
Here's the thing, 12 mg's will probably be common on these guys, but mg's are really only useful against structure. It's going to be pretty much the only thing it's got going for it. It has pretty poor mobility and durability.

15 micro laser builds will be ***. That's a 36 point alpha that will shut down the Piranha, so it needs to be fired in 2 groups with a total duration of at least 1.25 seconds to avoid ghost heat with a short 120m range. It has the hardpoints, but you'll be better off running 6 er smalls than 15 micros.

who cares about ams

Watch Lang's preview.

12 lmg's will eat through the Cataphract from behind (with stock back armor which is a lot) in under 3 seconds not using the two ermeds at all.

It can do work against the Awesome's armor as well.

What seemed really interesting was it was almost as though Sean was choking on his tongue through a good deal of what I watched (about half).

Thing is twelve mg's hitting structure will insta gibble weapons. Have not done the math but it sure looks like less than a couple of seconds on open components means guaranteed all weapons bye, bye time.

Now if this is actually the case and anything open has zero chance of fighting, how would you balance that without making mg's which are useful right now, utter trash again to balance against a one off that has crap tons of em?

Sitting back I am interested because it looks like this mech has the potential to shake things up in a way we haven't seen since the intro of the KDK 3. Love the contrast of the two polar opposites as well. Doesn't hurt they are both clan.

Guess we shall see very shortly.

[Spheroid]

@Khobai: That is objectively not true. Go conduct an experiment in testing grounds. The damage is 1.5x base against structure and an additional variable amount from crit transfer(even in body segments with only actuators).

I suggest the leg of an Atlas-D and left arm of Centurion as test subjects. As the arm armor of the Centurion is 32 the .1 damage per mg round can be verified and then used to derive the applied damage to exposed (16hp) structure.

My limited testing gave results of 1.6-1.7 greater effective damage to structure.

Edited by Spheroid, 23 January 2018 - 02:11 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Spheroid, on 23 January 2018 - 01:56 AM, said:

@Khobai: That is objectively not true. Go conduct an experiment in testing grounds. The damage is 1.5x base against structure and an additional variable amount from crit transfer(even in body segments with only actuators).

I suggest the leg of an Atlas-D and left arm of Centurion as test subjects. As the arm armor of the Centurion is 32 the .1 damage per mg round can be verified and then used to derive the applied damage to exposed structure.

My limited testing gave results of 1.6-1.7 greater effective damage to structure.

No, structure doesn't takes 1.5x additional damage.
They do additional crit damage to internal components, and part of that crit damage is transfered to to true damage into the sections structure. Iirc, 15% of the crit damage done is transferred into real damage. but there arE: no crits, double crits and triple crits. so it might roughly be around those 12% khaobi wrote.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 January 2018 - 02:14 AM.

[Spheroid]

Lily please use a little common sense and math. If 100 mg rounds removes 16hp of structure and its only rated for 10 base then the pre-transfer damage from crits would be ludricriously large. Only 15% of that damage transferred back to the structure. I will let you crunch the numbers and tell me how I am wrong. (.15*40=6). Do you really think 100 rounds of mg ammo did forty points of crit damage!!!?

Also if you believe that actuators can be destroyed and only have 10hp then it should be very easy to demonstrate the tiny back transfer to arm structure on an assault with only an upper arm actuator and no equipment. Your theory will quickly be disproven absent component immortality. If they are not immortal a fully equipped arm would only have 30hp worth of critting from UAA, LAA and hand.

Smurfy gives the crit odds for machine guns and a few hundred rounds fired is a sufficiently large number to get average damage.

Edited by Spheroid, 23 January 2018 - 02:59 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

tker 669, on 23 January 2018 - 01:47 AM, said:

Watch Lang's preview.

12 lmg's will eat through the Cataphract from behind (with stock back armor which is a lot) in under 3 seconds not using the two ermeds at all.

I only skimmed over the preview at the beginning ... wasn't that "under 3 seconds" test against rear armor of the Cataphract done with the stock machine gun loadout?

[Lily from animove]

Spheroid, on 23 January 2018 - 02:33 AM, said:

Lily please use a little common sense and math. If 100 mg rounds removes 16hp of structure and its only rated for 10 base then the pre-transfer damage from crits would be ludricriously large. Only 15% of that damage transferred back to the structure. I will let you crunch the numbers and tell me how I am wrong. (.15*40=6). Do you really think 100 rounds of mg ammo did forty points of crit damage!!!?

Also if you believe that actuators can be destroyed and only have 10hp then it should be very easy to demonstrate the tiny back transfer to arm structure on an assault with only an upper arm actuator and no equipment. Your theory will quickly be disproven absent component immortality. If they are not immortal a fully equipped arm would only have 30hp worth of critting from UAA, LAA and hand.

Smurfy gives the crit odds for machine guns and a few hundred rounds fired is a sufficiently large number to get average damage.

ok, lets calculate

the machine gun does have following crit chances

31% chance to cause single crit,
17% chance to cause double crit
4% chance to tripplecrit

the crit does 8x as much damage to the component, and transfers 15% of the crit chance to the regular HP.

After making a little table, the average damage the Machine gun does including crits would be 0.21 damage.

So my current issue of unknown things is: 15% damage gets transfered from components damage towards regular damage. But we cannot crit damage stuff like Gyros, engine actuators etc. So does hitting an empty arm for example even cause critical damag tranfer? Because it technically does not do any crit damage to any component and therefore wouldn't transfer any additional damage towards the regulars sections structure.

So dooes shooting an empty CT (only gyro and engine) even appyl those 15% additional damage of crits? Because afaik it doe snot because crits to these sections do not happen. And this would depending on a mechs internal loadout when hiting structure alter it's true damage below those 2.1x damage compared to averagely only hitting a structure with only components. We know actuators cnanot be destroyed and gyros and engines, But I am not sure if crits apply to them and therefore those 15% damage transfer.



but i think this could be tested ingame in the battleground by trying to make singleshots into a mech without any additional componentsin the ct. Should engine and gyro cause no crits with transfer the result of how much shots it needs to destroy them would be very clearly half as much it takes. All one needs is some sensitive triggerfinger and a single MG with enough rounds.

or we could even test this in a private lobby with a 0 armor empty atlas. it should be impossible to spread into other components if standing still and calculating and then we see If it needs 2x the shots to shoot an arm off or not compared to the calculation of 0.1*structure.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 January 2018 - 04:40 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Uncle Butch, on 23 January 2018 - 04:52 AM, said:

I'd rather slam my nuts in a door jam and drag my @$$ through shards of glass than listen to what excuses you plebs have. All you brainlets are just trying to make up excuses why the Piranha isn't OP because all of you are Light 'Mech *** worshipers with a PB and MLX-G hard-on. Just sitting on your 800+ dmg light mech thrones, afraid of getting shoved off your pedestals.

The reality is you guys are just a bunch of UT99/Q3 rocket spammers living the glory days through your 129kph 2xERLL builds with no other reason to live other than to stare at the mountain of coke cans piled up on your keyboards.

All of you know that Light 'Mechs are OP as f***, but you'd rather f*** over the entire community than actually strive for game balance. Well guess what?! Have fun, goy bois. You won't be doing much when another Piranha decides to **** your s*** while you're trying to EZ-mode your way to a 500 match score. Eat s*** and die!

Just like with the crates&keys fiasco of 2009, you degenerates are going to wish you listened to me when I said "the piranha was a terrible idea. Mark my mother-f***in' words, autists.

Want a hug?

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 23 January 2018 - 01:08 AM, said:

machine guns only do about 12% more damage to structure, not double

Math and testing both show double damage, with normal MGs

220 rounds destroyed 42 HP from an unquirked 100 tonner leg
That's 30 potential CritDam, or 4.5 bonus dam from criting components....which also proves you get bonus damage whether there's anything to Crit or not.


Anyhow, 20 bonus from Crits from 22 actual damage from that quick test, but more testing would show more RNGeesus

Sjorpha, on 23 January 2018 - 04:57 AM, said:

Want a hug?

He'll need one this afternoon


So much butthurt, from all the MGs tearing into rear armor plates
24 DPS!

Edited by Mcgral18, 23 January 2018 - 05:09 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Uncle Butch, on 22 January 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

This is the cold truth that everyone is ignoring because of "muh beloved mwo!"...

• The Piranha is going to ruin the game for IS Light and Assault 'Mech pilots, and the clan nerfs to heat management aren't going to help much.
  
• The Piranha is going to ruin the game for Clan pilots because (essentially) every Clan 'Mech is getting a nerf in order to make way for the Piranha. Which still won't balance the game in favor for IS pilots much.

I warned you guys about how the MLX-G was too OP, and everyone was like, "it has crappy turn rate and big arms". Well now look who's laughing, plebs? HA... HA... HA... Perhaps if you guys were a little more outraged, then we wouldn't have a 145kph, 12mg, AMS wielding, monster added to the game. Atlas' and Locusts...go eat your heart out.


Never trust PGI to know how to balance this game, because the proof is in the pudding: they don't know how to.

Thing is, PGI made precedent in recent balance adjustments.

If mech A is rendered 'obsolete' by mech B, mech A has to be changed.

If a Cbill variant has rendered a MC variant 'obsolete', cbill variant is changed.

If a Medium mech has rendered a light mech obsolete, the Medium has to be changed.

What will the Piranha make 'obsolete' thus forcing the Piranha to be changed?

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 23 January 2018 - 01:08 AM, said:

machine guns only do about 12% more damage to structure, not double

MGs do double damage to structures. LMGs actually did triple damage to structures until their crit value got nerfed.

TWIAFU, on 23 January 2018 - 05:21 AM, said:

What will the Piranha make 'obsolete' thus forcing the Piranha to be changed?

Lolcust.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 January 2018 - 05:31 AM.

[Hanky Spam]

I think the Piranha will be deadly as f*** in a coordinated group drop, swarming around it preys and shoot through their back.
However, it is just a light, just shoot its legs, or go on a fishing trip with a streakboat.

Oh wait, wasnt there also a 4 AMS variant?

[w4ldO]

37 spices and you picked salt

that goes to everyone here


also: talking down to someone because of ratings. get lost ppl. why even poke him, when his opinion doesn't mean anything to you anyway?

[Mcgral18]

w4ldO, on 23 January 2018 - 07:35 AM, said:

37 spices and you picked salt

that goes to everyone here


also: talking down to someone because of ratings. get lost ppl. why even poke him, when his opinion doesn't mean anything to you anyway?

Allow someone to spread lies uncontested?
Not on our Christian Forums!

[Lily from animove]

w4ldO, on 23 January 2018 - 07:35 AM, said:

37 spices and you picked salt

that goes to everyone here


also: talking down to someone because of ratings. get lost ppl. why even poke him, when his opinion doesn't mean anything to you anyway?

4 is smaller than 2, becaus opinion, now respect it in any way.

theres flavour, whichs taste received is an opinion, and then there are facts which are no subjects to opinions.

Sugar being sweet is a fact, someone saying sugar tastes great or like crap is an opinion.

And lights are op is just an opinion which countless amount fo facts proofing this.
Someone's stats proof very well how good he is in achieving various tasks as well as generally knowing what to do in MWO. So someone with crappy stats surely hardly knows how the average gameplay has to be done. When someone like this tries to argue ove rather much facts without even bringing some proof, then we telling him this beeing nonsense is not unfriendly, but when he like a stubborn child sticks to this opinion, well people might stop being nice.

Yet said person is till up to slamming his nuts in a door and dragging his a$$ through shards of glass. But I guess this was just loud mouthing as well.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 January 2018 - 07:56 AM.

[w4ldO]

Mcgral18, on 23 January 2018 - 07:40 AM, said:

Allow someone to spread lies uncontested?
Not on our Christian Forums!

or let the thread bury itself in the abyss of meaninglessness
making it a hot topic: counterproductive. i guess there are not many moderators here?
tell him he's wrong. alt-tab. play the game.

Lily from animove, on 23 January 2018 - 07:50 AM, said:

4 is smaller than 2, becaus opinion, no respect it in any way.
theres flavour, whichs taste received is an opinion, and then there are facts which are no subjects to opinions.
Sugar being sweet is a fact, someone saying sugar tastes great or like crap is an opinion.
And lights are op is just an opinion which countless amount fo facts proofing this.

someone saying sugar tastes like crap, i'd ask him how he knows how crap tastes.

Lily from animove, on 23 January 2018 - 07:50 AM, said:

Someone's stats proof very well how good he is in achieving various tasks as well as generally knowing what to do in MWO. So someone with crappy stats surely hardly knows how the average gameplay has to be done. When someone like this tries to argue ove rather much facts without even bringing some proof, then we telling him this beeing nonsense is not unfriendly, but when he like a stubborn child sticks to this opinion, well people might stop being nice.

marked it for you where this thread should have been closed, or ppl should have ditched it. why bring salt into a saltmine?

Edited by w4ldO, 23 January 2018 - 08:24 AM.

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 23 January 2018 - 07:40 AM, said:

Allow someone to spread lies uncontested?
Not on our Christian Forums!

Dang it! You almost made me choke on my own saliva! I hate you!

Lily from animove, on 23 January 2018 - 07:50 AM, said:

So someone with crappy stats surely hardly knows how the average gameplay has to be done.

With the notable exception of joystick users, of course.

Edited by Mystere, 23 January 2018 - 08:41 AM.

[Admiral-Dan]

Hanky Spam, on 23 January 2018 - 05:44 AM, said:

Oh wait, wasnt there also a 4 AMS variant?

Really??? You are afraid of a mech with nearly no weapons? With 4 AMS and AMS Ammo the Piranha has very little tonnage left for weapons.