165 replies to this topic

[riverslq]

tker 669, on 20 January 2018 - 01:55 PM, said:

If so than that is a great sign.

You wouldn't change the rules for MLB to make it better for little league players, that would be silly.

So changing things based on what the best say, is the best for the game.

Changing it based on a potato's advice would be a level of stupid I don't want to see, but have in this game time and time again.

Your comparison doesn't really hold up.
Competitive players alone will not pay for this game.

[Khobai]

Mystere, on 20 January 2018 - 10:37 PM, said:

Never-ending balancing changes, some already having already gone full circle many times over, seem to belie your statement.

yep. some of them have gone full circle twice. like now were nerfing cerppc again...

[BEST EGG]

November11th, on 20 January 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

Bro. I didnt join DS until recently, when i joined up with bacon. I also dont really care for FP either. If you wanna talk **** about Kdr, I'd rather we go head to head. Both if us of the same team. The guy who scores the most kills or highest dmg in two out of three matches wins.

Why even bother? you're clearly a terrible player (lol undisplayed PSR). Even if you could win a 1v1 e-peen match, you clearly have no idea how to play the game well. Your opinions should be automatically disregarded - I'm sure the devs do, even if they'll never say it for PR reasons or otherwise.

[FupDup]

Mystere, on 20 January 2018 - 10:37 PM, said:

Never-ending balancing changes, some already having already gone full circle many times over, seem to belie your statement.

Many of those "never ending" changes have little net impact, and many of the changes also aren't very ambitious or proactive about solving key problems.

[YueFei]

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 10:28 PM, said:

then why do a lot of clan mechs not have any quirks

oh because im right.

Nope. The reason they don't have quirks is not because it's impossible to give them quirks. PGI just isn't competent and refuses to. Put someone who has a decent grasp of the game in charge of those XML edits (like McGral, for example), and it'd get done.

Your limited imagination need not apply here.

[Khobai]

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Many of those "never ending" changes have little net impact, and many of the changes also aren't very ambitious or proactive about solving key problems.

it adds up over time though

the CERPPC keeps getting little nerfs here and there for example.

if you add up the sum of all the little nerfs to the CERPPC, its not that little anymore.

PGI is using little nerfs over long periods of time as a way to disguise how badly theyre nerfing clans lol.

I think theyre afraid of losing players if they nerf clans all at once.

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Nope. The reason they don't have quirks is not because it's impossible to give them quirks

wrong it is impossible to give them quirks because then you have to give IS even more quirks to keep things balanced. which makes things even more lopsided. thats the whole problem with using quirks to balance the tech bases.

quirks should be for one thing and one thing only: differentiating otherwise similar mechs. they should not be used for balancing IS vs clan tech. or as an excuse to not fix underpowered mechs properly.

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Your limited imagination need not apply here.

Guess what? Your vivid imagination doesnt apply either. Because PGI doesnt care about our opinions either way.

PGI is not going to suddenly give quirks to clan mechs though. Maybe you hadnt noticed but they nerf clans every patch... they wont even give quirks to the clan mechs that need them.

Edited by Khobai, 20 January 2018 - 10:54 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

wrong it is impossible to give them quirks because then you have to give IS even more quirks to keep things balanced. thats the whole problem with using quirks to balance the tech bases.

That would only be the case if you gave quirks to already stronk Clan gundams. Giving more quirks to something like the Cougar won't suddenly make IS lights (or IS mechs in general) tremble in its wake unless those buffs were massively overdone.

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

quirks should be for one thing and one thing only: differentiating otherwise similar mechs. they should not be used for balancing IS vs clan tech. or as an excuse to not fix underpowered mechs properly.

Some underpowered mechs cannot be "fixed properly" because integral mechanics such as the Battletech construction system inherently hold them down. When a mech does not have any innate strengths, it needs to have strengths bestowed upon it from external sources...like quirks.

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

it adds up over time though

the CERPPC keeps getting little nerfs here and there for example.

if you add up the sum of all the little nerfs to the CERPPC, its not that little anymore.

PGI is using little nerfs over long periods of time as a way to disguise how badly theyre nerfing clans lol.

I think theyre afraid of losing players if they nerf clans all at once.

Usually PGI nerfs Clan and IS stuff at the same time and by similar amounts, such as the recent [ER]ML thing, AC/5 heat, PPC velocity, Gauss/PPC linkage, SSRMs, etc.

There's also the point that if they nerf everything, then that will somewhat counteract the effect because balance is largely relative to other things. It's not like the CERPPC is the only thing ever getting nerfed.

Edited by FupDup, 20 January 2018 - 10:49 PM.

[Mystere]

FupDup, on 20 January 2018 - 10:41 PM, said:

Many of those "never ending" changes have little net impact, and many of the changes also aren't very ambitious or proactive about solving key problems.

It's the "gone full circle" part that is more significant and disturbing.

Edited by Mystere, 20 January 2018 - 10:53 PM.

[FupDup]

Mystere, on 20 January 2018 - 10:53 PM, said:

It's the "gone full circle" part that is more significant and disturbing.

Incompetence tends to produce that outcome. Those who fail to learn from the past...

[YueFei]

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

wrong it is impossible to give them quirks because then you have to give IS even more quirks to keep things balanced. which makes things even more lopsided. thats the whole problem with using quirks to balance the tech bases.

quirks should be for one thing and one thing only: differentiating otherwise similar mechs. they should not be used for balancing IS vs clan tech. or as an excuse to not fix underpowered mechs properly.

Let me hold your hand and walk you through logic:
1.) Are there underpowered Clan mechs which perform even worse than IS mechs [Y/n]?
2.) If yes, which ones and why?
3.) Apply quirks to those underpowered Clan mechs to bring them up to par.
4.) Profit!!!

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Guess what? Your vivid imagination doesnt apply either. Because PGI doesnt care about our opinions either way.

PGI is not going to suddenly give quirks to clan mechs though. Maybe you hadnt noticed but they nerf clans every patch... they wont even give quirks to the clan mechs that need them.

I'm not arguing with PGI here. I'm arguing with you, and trying to convince the "spectators" of this thread. Because the only way to convince PGI is if enough people clamor for it, and so I'm here to win over the rest of the customer base.

Lemme guess, do you also tend to pull a Kaepernick and not bother to vote while telling everyone else around you that voting is useless?

[Luminis]

riverslq, on 20 January 2018 - 10:38 PM, said:

Your comparison doesn't really hold up.
Competitive players alone will not pay for this game.

They won't pay for this game, but if PGI was listening to everyone equally... Y'know, like the people who want Clan 'Mechs to stomp any IS 'Mech of equal (or significantly more) tonnage because that's how it's in the Lore™? Or like the people who think that Light 'Mechs should be one-shot cannon fodder?

YueFei, on 20 January 2018 - 10:58 PM, said:

1.) Are there underpowered Clan mechs which perform even worse than IS mechs [Y/n]?

The list of 'Mechs in dire need of quirks is gonna be huge on both sides, especially if we're going by variants, not just chassis...

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

quirks are part of the problem. quirks should never have been used to try and balance IS vs clan tech.

because when you use quirks to balance the techbases it means clan mechs cant have quirks.

the two techbases need to be balanced without quirks. that way both IS and clan mechs can have equal amounts of quirks.

And yet here we are with plenty if Clan mechs that have quirks.

Sometimes I feel like you just post disagreement on something (in the fact of facts disproving it) because you are bored or something. You can't surely be as unaware of things as you make out.

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 10:39 PM, said:

yep. some of them have gone full circle twice. like now were nerfing cerppc again...

What nerf?

Cooldown literally ooses zero impact after 30-60 seconds when you are heat capped anyway and this cooldown means absolutely jack.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 20 January 2018 - 11:10 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

What nerf?

Heat Gen Nodes

IS and Clan Heat Gen Nodes now have separate values in the Firepower Tree.

Inner Sphere values remain unchanged.

• -0.75% per Node.
• -10.5% total.

Clan values have been adjusted to the following:

• -0.6% per Node (down from -0.75%).
• -8.4% total.

[BEST EGG]

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

it adds up over time though

the CERPPC keeps getting little nerfs here and there for example.

if you add up the sum of all the little nerfs to the CERPPC, its not that little anymore.

PGI is using little nerfs over long periods of time as a way to disguise how badly theyre nerfing clans lol.

I think theyre afraid of losing players if they nerf clans all at once.

Wow man, it's as if incremental balance is better than massive, sweeping changes with unpredictable effects! It's almost as if a direct comparison between ER PPC and C-ER PPC shows they are unique, and relatively balanced between each other. Shocker!

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

PGI is not going to suddenly give quirks to clan mechs though. Maybe you hadnt noticed but they nerf clans every patch... they wont even give quirks to the clan mechs that need them.

Absolutely no clan mechs in the game have quirks. no, none of them. Not even the first mech in the store list, the adder, has quirks. Omnipod set bonuses? fake news.

You're just another one of these permanoob bads who hides his skill ranking and pretends to know what they're talking about. You need to stop posting before you embarrass yourself further - it's obvious that you are a clan role-player who can't imagine anything other than overwhelming clan superiority as being acceptable.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 11:10 PM, said:

Heat Gen Nodes

IS and Clan Heat Gen Nodes now have separate values in the Firepower Tree.

Inner Sphere values remain unchanged.

• -0.75% per Node.
• -10.5% total.

Clan values have been adjusted to the following:

• -0.6% per Node (down from -0.75%).
• -8.4% total.

Lol no mention of cERPPC... Yet that's what you're debating? You can't even keep on topic. 1 point if extra heat affects cERPPC how? Drop a TC down a level, add a cDHS - win. I've seen the math done behind it, this change in the REAL WORLD is absolutely minor. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Commentating on a Nerf without doing anything actual checking of what it means to the game

Will Clan Energy take a hit? Yes.
Will it impact the current META / dominance of Clan Energy? Not in the slightest.

It's for these reasons PGI needs to listen to better players and not players like you. You think this is something great/huge Nerf when realistically it's such a minor issue. I don't mean that in a rude way, I mean that in a way that if they STOP listening to silly arguments without any foundation, we might actually get some meaningful alterations to balance that might make balance closer, like it was ore skill maze.

The bIg one is cMPL and cSPL/IS SPL. But again you don't understand because you don't play it understand the game to a level that lets you appreciate what changes actually mean.

[Khobai]

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Lol no mention of cERPPC... Yet that's what you're debating?

nerfing heat gen is a nerf to CERPPC because its a hot weapon.

Quote

Will Clan Energy take a hit? Yes.
Will it impact the current META / dominance of Clan Energy? Not in the slightest.

Of course it wont. Because clan autocannons and missiles still suck. And gauss naturally complements laser vomit. You will see CERPPCs used less though.

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The bIg one is cMPL and cSPL/IS SPL. But again you don't understand because you don't play it understand the game to a level that lets you appreciate what changes actually mean.

CSPL absolutely needed to be nerfed. 6 damage for 3 heat was absolutely absurd. Especially with that short of a beam duration.

Im sorry but CSPL got what it deserved. And theres no going back.

CMPL also needed its range nerfed. But they shouldve lowered its heat to compensate for the drop in range. CMPL were way too effective at midrange poking when theyre supposed to be an under 400m brawling weapon.

Its not a problem that they nerfed pulses. Its more of problem that they arnt buffing clan autocannons or missiles.

They have pigeonholed clans into using midrange laser vomit and gauss/laser because all their other weapons are ineffective. Clan ballistics require too much facetime. And clan missiles just dont compete with the IS missiles which do more damage and get better quirks.

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It's for these reasons PGI needs to listen to better players and not players like you.

PGI certainly shouldnt listen to you either. Or wed have overpowered CSPL again lmao.

Good riddance to 6 damage 3 heat CSPL. That crap was laughably OP.

Edited by Khobai, 20 January 2018 - 11:42 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

So math out the heat increase. Right here, right now.

Show us how bad it is with the actual numbers and how much of a difference in percentage it's going to make.

Warning you though, people might laugh at you once you do and realise how minor it is. This change won't alter my cERPPC use one iota.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 20 January 2018 - 11:33 PM.

[BEST EGG]

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 11:26 PM, said:

nerfing heat gen is a nerf to CERPPC because its a hot weapon.

Oh no, you'll have to spend an extra half a second cooling off between shots.

Wouldn't it be convenient if ER PPCs had a 0.5 second extra cooldown, so this didn't even matter anyway. Oh wait!

Do you even think before you post?

[Luminis]

justcallme A S H, on 20 January 2018 - 11:29 PM, said:

So math out the heat increase. Right here, right now.

2x cERPPC = 29 heat. 10.5 % heat gen = 25.955, 8.4 % heat gen = 26.564.

0.609 additional heat every time you fire dual cERPPCs.

People call the heat decrease on the LGauss stupid because nobody's gonna notice, but that's still a bigger change than the difference per cERPPC. Just for reference.

/edit: For further reference, not considering the skill tree, a SMN with 24 DHS dissipates 4.3 points of heat per second. Not considering Cool Run (which the SMN probably has in practice), the nerf adds an amount of heat equal to 0.142 seconds of heat dissipation on the premier Clan PPC carrier.

Yeah, the heat gen nerf is really gonna break the cERPPC. Confirmed.

Edited by Luminis, 21 January 2018 - 12:12 AM.

[Fleeb the Mad]

justcallme A S H, on 20 January 2018 - 11:29 PM, said:

So math out the heat increase. Right here, right now.

Show us how bad it is with the actual numbers and how much of a difference in percentage it's going to make.

Warning you though, people might laugh at you once you do and realise how minor it is. This change won't alter my cERPPC use one iota.

EDIT: Erm, ninja'd apparently.

I've got to ask. Are we talking about the heat gen nodes and ER PPCS?

I feel the need to clarify because I didn't see any heat nerfs to the PPC itself in the notes and the heat gen node changes are trivial.

We're talking about a difference of 2.1%. Two point one percent. On a 29 heat volley for a pair of cERPPCs, the original node values would create 25.96 heat. With the new node changes that's 26.56 heat. A difference of 0.6 heat per volley, or 0.3 per PPC.

I mean, it's true that the value is technically greater, but I have some trouble believing most people would even notice. It's not really going to make a dent in any Clan energy boat.

Edited by Fleeb the Mad, 21 January 2018 - 12:18 AM.