77 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

I liked that:
- HGR is getting +40m Optimal range, yes that's right it's at 220m now. If max range is also adjusted, that means it does 20 damage at 440m, 15 at 660m.

- LGR has recieved cooldown buff, to 2.6s, while it would deserve 9 damage with it, it's a good direction.

- Clan ER PPC recieves a cooldown nerf. Yeah well i know that i'm clan, but i also know that Clan tech is generally OP, and C-ERPPC had this coming.

- Assassin Armor quirks turned to structure quirks. Yes i'm a bit biased around here, but i really don't like those "armored lights".

- Shadowhawk 5M UAC quirks now cater on other UACs too.

I disliked that:
- CMPL got a nerf. It's already a perfect implementation. It's not even that longer ranged, the two just have different roles as C-ERSL as well as C-SPL are the brawling weapons for Clan.

- Clan heat nodes have different values. Clan weapons are already hotter in general.

- Still no RAC2 buff. Honestly the weapon's so god damn anemic.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 20 January 2018 - 05:07 PM.

[FupDup]

I don't think the Clam ER Peeper needed to be hit right now, given that the current craze is laser vomit right? That's just going to reinforce it.

[The6thMessenger]

FupDup, on 20 January 2018 - 04:58 PM, said:

I don't think the Clam ER Peeper needed to be hit right now, given that the current craze is laser vomit right? That's just going to reinforce it.

I suppose so. But i do believe that Lasers just need global nerfs really.

[Y E O N N E]

2.6 seconds on the LGauss cooldown, not 2.65.

cMPL is an issue only because of the nerfs to the isERML and ML, IMHO. I would have much rather seen those nerfs rolled back and possibly an increase to the ghost-heat grouping to 7.

Clan weapons run hotter, but except on Lights and a few mediums they can bring so many DHS that they have much better damage-to-heat and sustained output than their IS counterparts.

[The6thMessenger]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 January 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

2.6 seconds on the LGauss cooldown, not 2.65.

Okay.

[FupDup]

The6thMessenger, on 20 January 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

But i do believe that Lasers just need global nerfs really.

No. IS lasers range from mostly fine to in dire need of buffs, and even a few Clan lasers (both Micros, SPL) could use some help.

Some stuff like the CERML and HLL are too stronk and need a dial back in their alpha strike damage, but let's not go witch-hunting the entire laser family across the board for the sins of only a few. That's the kind of thing that Paul would do...

[Athom83]

The6thMessenger, on 20 January 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

- Clan heat nodes have different values. Clan weapons are already hotter in general.

Mainly meant to curb the insane alpha builds that edge the 99% line with all the heat nodes and cool-run/heat-containment from the Ops tree.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 January 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

cMPL is an issue only because of the nerfs to the isERML and ML, IMHO. I would have much rather seen those nerfs rolled back and possibly an increase to the ghost-heat grouping to 7.

I think a key factor in the rise of the CMPL is that PGI buffed its heat, cooldown, and duration during their attempt to make pulse lasers into DPS. That pushed it over the edge.

[LordNothing]

my main disappointment is lack of content, especially tweaks. sure i expect the mech pack release to be the main feature. but everyone knows the game needs more tweaks, 2 quirk passes and 2 weapon tweaks seem very little for a month of work.

[FupDup]

Athom83, on 20 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

Mainly meant to curb the insane alpha builds that edge the 99% line with all the heat nodes and cool-run/heat-containment from the Ops tree.

All builds in the game edge the 99% line because nearly everything short of Gauss and Machine Guns generates incredibly high heat in this game. Some builds just reach that line a lot more quickly than others.

And really, I'd prefer to go about addressing the issue from the base stats of the guns themselves (namely reducing damage on certain Clan lasers) rather than making everybody have to sit behind cover longer while they watch the red bar slowly go down.

Personally my already very effective Virago is hardly going to feel that because it's got a -10% energy heat quirk build into it. Yay for balance!

[The6thMessenger]

FupDup, on 20 January 2018 - 05:08 PM, said:

No. IS lasers range from mostly fine to in dire need of buffs, and even a few Clan lasers (both Micros, SPL) could use some help.

Damage buff maybe. But they need ergonomic nerfs, like increasing the laser durations globally.

FupDup, on 20 January 2018 - 05:08 PM, said:

Some stuff like the CERML and HLL are too stronk and need a dial back in their alpha strike damage, but let's not go witch-hunting the entire laser family across the board for the sins of only a few. That's the kind of thing that Paul would do...

C-ERML kind of have okay damage, HLL needs damage nerf. But as a whole, the laser family just needs laser duration nerfs to make other weapons a bit more relevant. I mean why get an AC5 when you can have 7 ER-ML?

[Magnus Santini]

I like that we got the notes in advance.

The6thMessenger, on 20 January 2018 - 05:14 PM, said:

... I mean why get an AC5 when you can have 7 ER-ML?

Because your under-hardpointed IS Mech has less than 7 total hard points?

[FupDup]

The6thMessenger, on 20 January 2018 - 05:14 PM, said:

Damage buff maybe. But they need ergonomic nerfs, like increasing the laser durations globally.

...But as a whole, the laser family just needs laser duration nerfs to make other weapons a bit more relevant.

Yeah man, those ER Micros and IS Smalls are totally making other weapons irrelevant, gotta nerf them to make people use other things!

Oh wait, that doesn't make any sense because nerfing bad underused weapons won't somehow save other bad underused weapons.

The6thMessenger, on 20 January 2018 - 05:14 PM, said:

I mean why get an AC5 when you can have 7 ER-ML?

Maybe if the AC/5 had reasonable velocity, more ammo per ton (reduced weight/slots investment), less heat (seriously the heat nerfs to it are stupid) and a little bit faster cooldown it could be more worth its weight.

[The6thMessenger]

FupDup, on 20 January 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

Yeah man, those ER Micros and IS Smalls are totally making other weapons irrelevant, gotta nerf them to make people use other things!

Yes, because ER Micros and IS Smalls totally represent the heavier weapons.

FupDup, on 20 January 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

Oh wait, that doesn't make any sense because nerfing bad underused weapons won't somehow save other bad underused weapons.

Because obviously by "global", that means every single weapons get the exact same nerf.

You're the one putting me in that position, that's not my position.

FupDup, on 20 January 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

Maybe if the AC/5 had reasonable velocity, more ammo per ton (reduced weight/slots investment), less heat (seriously the heat nerfs to it are stupid) and a little bit faster cooldown it could be more worth its weight.

But the thing is that, for its weight you can get more of the lighter weapons anyways. Increase it's velocity and ammo/ton, faster cooldown too -- it will still never match the laser vomit due to the meta that minimizes exposure time and maximizes damage.

[Fleeb the Mad]

Heavy Gauss badly needed a range buff to make it more worthwhile given the rather significant build tradeoffs required to use it. I'm not entirely sure it's enough, but I can live with small steps.

Kinda puzzled about the cMPL given that the ERML supersedes it in use almost universally. Why nerf that but leave the ER ML alone?

[Mystere]

The6thMessenger, on 20 January 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

I suppose so. But i do believe that Lasers just need global nerfs really.

And by that you mean large duration, cooldown, and heat nerfs on IS lasers, right?

[The6thMessenger]

Mystere, on 20 January 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

And by that you mean large duration, cooldown, and heat nerfs on IS lasers, right?

No, i mean increased durations on both sides. Perhaps fixes on the SPLs too, reworking of C-LPL too -- etc.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 20 January 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

I think a key factor in the rise of the CMPL is that PGI buffed its heat, cooldown, and duration during their attempt to make pulse lasers into DPS. That pushed it over the edge.

I don't think it was over the edge, though, not on its own merit. It was a pretty monstrous push weapon, but otherwise you are still better off taking cERML.

Rather, I think the fact that isMPL are so dramatically different than cMPL and that isML and ERML can't do follow-up shots like they used to made them even more appealing. The IS LPL + ML builds were not too shabby at pushing on their own, but once the sync was broken with the cooldown nerfs that build lost its lustre.

The6thMessenger, on 20 January 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

But the thing is that, for its weight you can get more of the lighter weapons anyways. Increase it's velocity and ammo/ton, faster cooldown too -- it will still never match the laser vomit due to the meta that minimizes exposure time and maximizes damage.

The RFL-3N before the skill tree could fire its AC/5 fast enough to get a 50 point alpha out over the course of a laser burn using a brace of Medium lasers and could then keep pumping damage if the target stayed exposed.

IMHO, that's a solid baseline.

[The6thMessenger]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 January 2018 - 06:05 PM, said:

The RFL-3N before the skill tree could fire its AC/5 fast enough to get a 50 point alpha out over the course of a laser burn using a brace of Medium lasers and could then keep pumping damage if the target stayed exposed.

IMHO, that's a solid baseline.

Yes, and so increase the IS Laser Duration to 1.66

JK

I suppose we could buff the ballistics too, it's just prudent to do both without power creeping or overkill buffs.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 20 January 2018 - 06:21 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

I don't like the Clan heat skill nerf because they shouldn't be using the skill tree to balance the factions.