77 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Light ACs when

[Alex Morgaine]

Mwo5:2. "here have your #@=#$ clans"(invasion up to tuk)
Mwo5:3 "extonnked old school robits"(pre2750 mechs)
Mwo5:4 "oh yeah peentagon worlds"(3057- 3060)
Mwo5:5 "yay civil war?" (3060s to before jihad)
Mwo5:6 "bone tossed, have a freaking light ac"(jihad)

Edited by Alex Morgaine, 22 January 2018 - 09:38 PM.

[Lily from animove]

CMPL changes feell kinda wrong.

first it will just make it more complciated to differ between normal and max ranges as it yet is another chosen value that changed.
Second it is now less heatefficient as the IS version, with some better max damage range yet still has the +50% beamduration.
They should at least cut down beamduration as well to like 0.70s.

The6thMessenger, on 20 January 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

I suppose so. But i do believe that Lasers just need global nerfs really.

and penalise all the chassis who cannot boat them in heavy or lager quantities? No thats not how it works without destroying some other mechs even more. It's PGI's stubborness to not lower the heatscale allowing stupid high alphas of laservomit. And light AC's won't help the meds and lights because these will be facetime wepaons and facetime weapons don't work on them.

Athom83, on 21 January 2018 - 03:41 PM, said:

Lol... 2 SHS OP! You seem to be forgetting that the 10 DHS in the engine are TrueDubs, as in they have litterally double the effect of the SHSs. Even if you add 2 SHS per leg (4 tons), you'd cool much slower than with DHS as you are losing the equivalent of 10 free heatsinks (0 tons).

This is the typical clan mech nowadays and why I said what I said; http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d39553771388deb Tell me again how that is balanced?

it's only the typical clanmech used.
lets talka about those without ecm, lets talk about those with fixed JJ's int heir feet not able to put DHS there.

Sorry but your example is bad, if you balance around ths build you posted then you ultimately make this build even more rpesent becasue all the clanmechs not able to meta this hard will get hit harder by the nerfs to attemp balancing this build posted. And this will ultimately eleiminate them as a "somewhat working" build leading everyone to having meta even harder.
We can not balance tech based on the metachassis usage, bevause this always had hurt the non meta chassis harder than the metas itself. if such metabuilds are an issues then we need to adress this on the chassis not the tech used by them.

Lasers don't need a nerf because of mechs like this, all that does is ruin smaller mechs that NEED their lasers and are already not good.

seriously guys, balancing one mach at the top by ruinign balance for 4 other mechs even more is not the way for an overall better balance.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 January 2018 - 01:39 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Lily from animove, on 23 January 2018 - 01:26 AM, said:

and penalise all the chassis who cannot boat them in heavy or lager quantities? No thats not how it works without destroying some other mechs even more. It's PGI's stubborness to not lower the heatscale allowing stupid high alphas of laservomit. And light AC's won't help the meds and lights because these will be facetime wepaons and facetime weapons don't work on them.

That sounds more like the problem of the chassis more than the weapons. I'd rather they just buff the chassis themselves as opposed of keeping the series of weapons disconcertingly powerful for the rest.

[Lily from animove]

The6thMessenger, on 23 January 2018 - 01:48 AM, said:

That sounds more like the problem of the chassis more than the weapons. I'd rather they just buff the chassis themselves as opposed of keeping the series of weapons disconcertingly powerful for the rest.

No it's an chassis issue on both ends, but there are SOME problematic meta builds, and then there are many lights and meds needing those wepaons. So why nerf 20 things to balance 2 things but havign to rebuff 15 due to the nerf? Also, I thoguht we don't want thsoe 50% quirks back? because if you sufficiently nerf lasers to make those top meta builds not OP anymore you will mostlikely need more than those 50% quirks to buff the lower chassis. ther eis simply just that much you can actually do before overdoing it. nerfign topc hassis with negatice quirks and buffing low chassis with positives was the best way.
But the current way: no negative quirks, no superquirks, there won't be any balance possible by how uneven tech changes affect different chassis.
Why not starting with the huge heatscale? Without this heatscale all combos of lasers that massively exceed the firepower capabilities of a light with energies would only nerf the Big ones because the small ones never actually begin to exceed it anyways. then all we need is better dissipation to that dps are heatbound and not too much weapon bound.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 January 2018 - 02:28 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Lily from animove, on 23 January 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

Why not starting with the huge heatscale? Without this heatscale all combos of lasers that massively exceed the firepower capabilities of a light with energies would only nerf the Big ones because the small ones never actually begin to exceed it anyways. then all we need is better dissipation to that dps are heatbound and not too much weapon bound.

Because the point was make the lasers ergonomically worse, to make the ACs he quality-of-life choice. Why? Because the lasers can just substitute for the ACs anyways, and still save weight. And with the alpha meta, they can just dump damage and then hide -- leaving the acs that needs to stare down at a disadvantage.

[Lily from animove]

The6thMessenger, on 23 January 2018 - 05:49 AM, said:

Because the point was make the lasers ergonomically worse, to make the ACs he quality-of-life choice. Why? Because the lasers can just substitute for the ACs anyways, and still save weight. And with the alpha meta, they can just dump damage and then hide -- leaving the acs that needs to stare down at a disadvantage.

and with a lower heatscale and better dissipation, hiding with lasers will mean losing dps, because you need to fire more often to keep dps up otherwise you lose cooling potential whuich is the ammo of lasers. You then force peopel with alsers to economically play more similar to Ac's because hiding wastes ressources. Hiding only worked because huge heatscale made it possible to hide for along time without losing dps.

[Brain Cancer]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 January 2018 - 08:06 PM, said:

Light ACs when

Or Mech Rifles. Heck, even AP Gauss for the Clans.

[Y E O N N E]

Brain Cancer, on 23 January 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

Or Mech Rifles. Heck, even AP Gauss for the Clans.

No AP Gauss without Magshots.

[Snowbluff]

Brain Cancer, on 23 January 2018 - 09:46 AM, said:

Or Mech Rifles. Heck, even AP Gauss for the Clans.

Yeonne Greene, on 23 January 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

No AP Gauss without Magshots.

I would gladly support more gauss types in the game and more small ballastics.

[The6thMessenger]

Lily from animove, on 23 January 2018 - 06:03 AM, said:

and with a lower heatscale and better dissipation, hiding with lasers will mean losing dps, because you need to fire more often to keep dps up otherwise you lose cooling potential whuich is the ammo of lasers. You then force peopel with alsers to economically play more similar to Ac's because hiding wastes ressources. Hiding only worked because huge heatscale made it possible to hide for along time without losing dps.

So what? Losing DPS is not as important as vomiting a powerful alpha at a single component, and auto-delete it. Sure time between becomes larger, but the ease of use remains the same. Even if it's lasers vs ACs, the lasers still have an edge cause the ACs need to shoot many times over, in which the laser would just hide longer.

[Gierling]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 January 2018 - 08:06 PM, said:

Light ACs when

JM7-D when?

[Gierling]

I tossed 2 lgr on a jm6-s out of curiosity.

I did well but it's almost impossible to find enough opportunities to shoot stuff with them now.

Amusing, probably not good but at least they are amusing now.

[Grus]

Not happy about the heat and the cmpl nerfs. I'm going to have to rebuild and reskill a few mech's now.. thanks pgi.

[Bombast]

Grus, on 23 January 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

Not happy about the heat and the cmpl nerfs.

I had to strip and unfavorite my MPL Huntsman today. The MPL nerf was the exact opposite of the MRM range buff - While the MRM got the last few magic meters it needed to be able to harass at range, the MPL lost the last few magic meters it needs to at least tickle them a bit without having to practically stand on top of them.

They technically work, but it's completely robbed any fun I was having out of them. My fun mech pool has now been reduced to the Trebuchet TBT-7N and Boomhammer.

[Grus]

Bombast, on 23 January 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

I had to strip and unfavorite my MPL Huntsman today. The MPL nerf was the exact opposite of the MRM range buff - While the MRM got the last few magic meters it needed to be able to harass at range, the MPL lost the last few magic meters it needs to at least tickle them a bit without having to practically stand on top of them.

They technically work, but it's completely robbed any fun I was having out of them. My fun mech pool has now been reduced to the Trebuchet TBT-7N and Boomhammer.

this^^ cmpl HBR was my fav. Add to that any other wep we got (clan) that can fill that range void is now guess what hotter. So that slight gap clans had where mpl was good and IS was ok falls right in the IS prime range..

Guess it's back to erm and lpl... that now run even hotter...

[Brain Cancer]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 January 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

No AP Gauss without Magshots.

Them too. I'm all for ballistics a light robot can use that don't have "machine gun" in the name.

[Khobai]

Quote

I had to strip and unfavorite my MPL Huntsman today. The MPL nerf was the exact opposite of the MRM range buff - While the MRM got the last few magic meters it needed to be able to harass at range, the MPL lost the last few magic meters it needs to at least tickle them a bit without having to practically stand on top of them.

the difference is MRM are supposed to be medium range

MPL are not. theyre supposed to be a short range brawling weapon.

in tabletop clan weapons had a massive range advantage over IS weapons. But in MWO that range advantage has to be significantly reduced because PGI decided to try for 1:1 balance. PGI is nerfing ranges on clan weapons so clans only get at most a 10% range advantage over the IS versions of the same weapon. Because they have to try and make the clan and IS versions equal with eachother.

but as ive said, lower range on the CMPL, shouldve also meant lower heat. PGI didnt proportionally lower the heat on the CMPL to compensate for the lower range. Thats what people should be mad about.

With a 480m max range, CMPL should only be like 4.4 heat. Not 4.75. Lower heat would help the CMPL excel better in its intended role of <400m sustained DPS. Then it wouldve just been more of a role realignment rather than a straight nerf.

But paying the same heat for less range is a huge nerf.

Edited by Khobai, 23 January 2018 - 11:01 PM.