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Fish Food! (Piranha Build Thread)


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#41 KindredSpirits

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 12:28 AM

I wouldn't say they're heavily skill based but they do require a special way of thinking.
You're gonna have no luck rushing in face first, going in from the back or sides is the only way to ensure you don't get popped instantly.
Additionally, you're never going to want to slug it out with anyone but a light/medium alone, try and always have backup.
If you're with friends, PIR swarms are terrifying. But if you're a solo queue hero, stick with your team. Either engage when they do, or act defensively to prevent your heavier mechs from being ambushed by lights (if your team is playing the poke game). I've never lost a 1 on 1 against a light.
That being said, even 1 PIR can be a total game changer. Been averaging 700-900 damage with my CI, 500+ on losing games, 1k+ on wins. It's my favourite mech by a mile, god bless PGI.
(And yeah I know that post was months ago but this is mostly for anyone else who stumbles on this thread.)Edit: apparently the quote function didn't work. I was referencing 120mm's post on Page 1.

Edited by KindredSpirits, 28 March 2018 - 12:30 AM.


#42 Black Lanner

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 09:49 AM



#43 Leopardo

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 01:12 AM

View PostKindredSpirits, on 28 March 2018 - 12:28 AM, said:

I wouldn't say they're heavily skill based but they do require a special way of thinking.
You're gonna have no luck rushing in face first, going in from the back or sides is the only way to ensure you don't get popped instantly.
Additionally, you're never going to want to slug it out with anyone but a light/medium alone, try and always have backup.
If you're with friends, PIR swarms are terrifying. But if you're a solo queue hero, stick with your team. Either engage when they do, or act defensively to prevent your heavier mechs from being ambushed by lights (if your team is playing the poke game). I've never lost a 1 on 1 against a light.
That being said, even 1 PIR can be a total game changer. Been averaging 700-900 damage with my CI, 500+ on losing games, 1k+ on wins. It's my favourite mech by a mile, god bless PGI.
(And yeah I know that post was months ago but this is mostly for anyone else who stumbles on this thread.)Edit: apparently the quote function didn't work. I was referencing 120mm's post on Page 1.

what builds do u use for cipher? caNt get the point ....always too hot ((( and low dmg

Edited by Leopardo, 10 June 2018 - 03:43 AM.


#44 PeterCarpetBeater

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 05:20 AM

Lately I have had my best matches in this mech. I guess the play style really suits me. If you're interested in how to play this mech, I've uploaded some game play on my YouTube channel:



#45 Squiggy McPew

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 03:13 AM

Been away for a bit and now running 8 er micro and 6 mg with an xl 180 on my cipher. Range is lowish at 165 optimal after skills but its dps is amazing and can shred through rear armour in a wink. Works best as an ankle biter once the brawl has started and everyone is too occupied to notice you ripping off arms and legs. Murders other lights.

#46 John McClintock

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Posted 20 April 2019 - 10:02 PM

It not leveled up yet, but I've played a pir-1 with 2xHML in the arms for utility, took a few games to get the hang of the playing style, but it's a fun mech. Hate the tunnel vision though. I squeeze as much ammo into it as I can get by dropping to a SLIGHTLY slower engine and still usually run out. If I had the dough I'd try the paywall version, seems a better mix of hardpoints.

#47 Prototelis

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Posted 21 April 2019 - 06:51 AM

Try 3 heavy smalls and 3 tons of ammo.

#48 John McClintock

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 07:58 PM

I'd sooner delete my head armor (not a fan of that) and a point from each arm to get that extra half ton of ammo, then lose my two heavy mediums, or even drop a couple machine guns for that extra half ton. I'm running 2.5 tons of ammo anyways, that extra half ton vs the increased range of the heavy mediums? I don't think so. The three heavy smalls do 0.5 less alpha (not a big deal) and radically decrease your tactical flexibility (that's more important). I don't get how people can justify all short range builds outside of Solaris, when there are SO many opportunities to do damage at mid range, and not be stuck doing nothing while waiting for a good opening.

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I did experiment initially with a 3xheavy medium build, it did some serious back stabbing. As in, if I even got the first part of a second burst of laser in they were done for even in a heavy/assault, it just got a little too hot in brawls vs other lights and was a little low on ammo, but I'm kind of heavy on the trigger anyways.

This was actually my first build and I may try it again, but the play style is a little...different. Since you are pretty low on ammo you have to rely more on the lasers for general use/poking early in the fight and save the machine guns for emergencies or backstabbing. If you are careful, you can get a few solo kills in before you run dry. I remember being so nervous I was almost shaking when I finished a match. I wasn't yet used to a light other than a kit fox. I'd probably do better with it now that I've played with a Jenner 4xHML. Just have to watch that heat when things get tense.

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p.s. now that I think about it i'd move two points of armor from the head to the arms.

#49 John McClintock

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Posted 22 April 2019 - 08:07 PM

p.p.s. the thing about keeping the lasers only in the arms, is it simplifies gameplay, cause you never know when you need to kill a kit fox who's jumping over you (that kit fox is usually me), I play with a normal keyboard/mouse, so switching to the roller for the arms is an extra step in my brain. Easier to just keep the lasers in the arms only, vs wasting a bunch of heat/having to switch buttons. Plus, like I said, three HML do get pretty hot.

#50 Squiggy McPew

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Posted 23 April 2019 - 10:56 PM

Been playing with a pure backstabber build and its very fun so far as long as you don't get countered by another light. Can poke out at ~300m and apply full damage so ninja ranged backstabs can be done too. Great late game on open torsos etc.

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#51 WrathOfDeadguy

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 01:02 AM

View PostJohn McClintock, on 22 April 2019 - 07:58 PM, said:

I'd sooner delete my head armor (not a fan of that) and a point from each arm to get that extra half ton of ammo, then lose my two heavy mediums, or even drop a couple machine guns for that extra half ton. I'm running 2.5 tons of ammo anyways, that extra half ton vs the increased range of the heavy mediums? I don't think so. The three heavy smalls do 0.5 less alpha (not a big deal) and radically decrease your tactical flexibility (that's more important). I don't get how people can justify all short range builds outside of Solaris, when there are SO many opportunities to do damage at mid range, and not be stuck doing nothing while waiting for a good opening.


The reason is that, on the PIR-1 at least, the MGs- making up the bulk of your tonnage and crit investment in weapons- should be your main weapon, with the lasers only serving as backup. HSL is favored in PIR-1 builds because it has better synergy with MGs than HML does- its optimal range is nearly identical to the MG, 3xHSL is heat-neutral with DHS (at least since the dissipation changes), and it consumes less of the tonnage which should be devoted to MG ammo. Waiting for a good opening is pretty much the PIR-1's ideal MO. It is rather terrible at fighting other lights, or mediums for that matter, so it is best served staying out of the fight completely until either one of two things happens: a lone heavy or assault gets isolated from its team, or a larger engagement begins where the Piranha can attack and sustain fire more or less unopposed.

Most of the people I know who run the PIR-1 with any regularity in high-level play do so with 3.5-4.5t of ammo... and they usually go through all of it. Even though that only leaves 2-3 HSLs as backup, by that point they've dished out 800-1k damage and crippled or killed several heavies or assaults, precisely because they waited for the best possible moment to attack. The PIR-1 is not a good laserpoking 'Mech- only one of its hardpoints is decently placed for that playstyle, and it has the weakest mobility stats of any 20-tonner. Can it do well with a build and playstyle relying more on lasers? Well... yeah. Anything with energy hardpoints can do laserpoke. It's just not what the variant does best, and you can get much more out of the 'Mech when you play to its strength: sustained close-range DPS. That means being very, very patient.

Poking at range with a PIR-1 often means taking hits that will prevent you from taking greater risks for MG damage opportunities... and while a pair of HML can potentially land you 20 damage, you won't be getting any use out of your MGs at safe poking range, and that means you're wasting the greater part of your firepower. Think of it this way: HML takes ~7 seconds to fully cycle, unskilled, and no less than 6s fully skilled out with cooldown and duration nodes. In the same time 2xHML can cycle to throw 20pts of damage downrange, 12xMG can take a leg or a rear CT- especially stacked with a few HSLs. Better to wait on good pounce opportunities for crippling or killing attacks three or four times per game, than to chip away at the enemy one poke at a time and only use your full potential as a finishing move later on. It is the epitome of a high-risk, high-reward 'Mech.

Anyway, that's the rationale behind running shorter-ranged lasers alongside the MGs.

...which is not to say that HML doesn't have a place on the PIR-1. But, when used, it should be used to supplement the MGs and maximize their killing power, rather than treating the MGs as secondary to the lasers. Using a single HML in the CT, for example, is a good way to shoehorn a full 4t of ammo into the PIR-1 for sustained output while maintaining a good initial armor-stripping burst. A single HML is also heat-neutral even with single heat sinks, so once you go full engage you can basically just tape down your fire button until something dies.

With 2xHML, you might consider going to LMGs instead of MGs, since their greater range (250 optimal to the HML's 270) and higher ammo-per-ton would offer better support for the lasers. At safe poking ranges, LMGs can actually contribute alongside the HMLs, whereas standard MGs will be doing next to nothing that far out. It is always better to try to range-match your weapons, when possible, rather than have any of your weapons sitting idle while the others do all the work.

#52 John McClintock

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Posted 24 April 2019 - 11:33 AM

The dps/ton is 30% less with LMG (even if they do pack more ammo) I see the rational, but you lose 30% of your one shot backstabability switching to lights, and you are back to face timing when you trollpoke, AND you have to lead so much with slow machine gun bullets, you'll lose a lot of your ammo missing at medium range.

Running 3 HML lets you do 75% of the damage of the 4xhml builds (which are quite deadly), PLUS have that wicked 12xMG array. It's a one shot back stabbing beast (just stay away from brawls with other lights). The obvious drawback being you have to reserve your MG as your secondary weapon unless backstabbing. (Not ideal, I know)

Frankly I'm just not that patient to sit back half the game and wait for openings. You have a limited amount of time to do dmg, and siting around does nothing but lower your overall dmg in the fight, while your buddies are out there dying.

I'm not saying trade pokes at range, I'm saying it gives the ability to get more free trades when they aren't looking at you, yet maintains the ability to backstab when the moment is right.

I might feel different a month from now, my pir-1 isn't even leveled up yet.

I think I'm going to try the 3xhml again...

#53 Budtty

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 06:51 PM

View PostJohn McClintock, on 24 April 2019 - 11:33 AM, said:

The dps/ton is 30% less with LMG (even if they do pack more ammo) I see the rational, but you lose 30% of your one shot backstabability switching to lights, and you are back to face timing when you trollpoke, AND you have to lead so much with slow machine gun bullets, you'll lose a lot of your ammo missing at medium range.

Running 3 HML lets you do 75% of the damage of the 4xhml builds (which are quite deadly), PLUS have that wicked 12xMG array. It's a one shot back stabbing beast (just stay away from brawls with other lights). The obvious drawback being you have to reserve your MG as your secondary weapon unless backstabbing. (Not ideal, I know)

Frankly I'm just not that patient to sit back half the game and wait for openings. You have a limited amount of time to do dmg, and siting around does nothing but lower your overall dmg in the fight, while your buddies are out there dying.

I'm not saying trade pokes at range, I'm saying it gives the ability to get more free trades when they aren't looking at you, yet maintains the ability to backstab when the moment is right.

I might feel different a month from now, my pir-1 isn't even leveled up yet.

I think I'm going to try the 3xhml again...

I down one engine size and use 2xHML and 1xERSML. I get more MG ammo and it is almost heat neutral. 3xHML is too hot to sustain in continuous fights. And too little MG AMMO. I pair one HML and 1 ERSML to my MG group. And another group of 3 lasers. It is tough to overheat at the expense of 5 laser damage compared to 3XHML but I have more MG ammo for late game cleanup.

#54 John McClintock

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Posted 30 April 2019 - 09:37 PM

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#55 General Solo

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Posted 01 May 2019 - 01:08 AM

I use two Medium heavy lasors wid 12 mgs
Gives you a 20 point poke
with a bit more ammo





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