50 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Tried it, the rate of fire is hillariously good. Of course the damage is something left to be desired as it still results in poor damage. Honestly, i'm now on the group of 10 damage/shot -- yes Khobai you were right, but it can stand retaining the current cooldown buff. At 3.10s recycle time versus 2.5s of that of AC10, it would still result in worse DPS.

I literally played as an Urbanmech with LGR + 2x ERML + XL145 -- i made the LGR at 1.967s cooldown time , i kept shooting both and i couldn't even break 400, and i'm a damn ballistic urbie enthusiast. I can make AC10 Urbie work, but honestly not the LGR. I have to shoot so much shells to do damage, I might as well run 2x AC2 on my Urbie and would result better DPS.

[FLG 01]

It still needs a buff, that's true.
I am more in the soft buff camp: increase the ammo per ton, remove ghost heat when used with PPCs, and increase velocity and range. Perhaps reduce the cooldown further taking the charge-up into account, or reduce the charge-up time again.

Yes, the low damage is frustrating. Compared to the AC/10 you give up 2 points of damage for greater range and accuracy. This trade can work imo, if the other drawbacks of the gauss are significantly reduced or removed, notably ammo count, PPC ghost heat, and charge-up.

But then, adding those 2 points of damage would work too.

[Shadowomega1]

Likely any further changes will definitely require the removal of ballistic rof quirks in favor of one that affects AC only. Going to be seeing how my Jaeger set up runs it here shortly.

[Y E O N N E]

TBQH, the entire Gauss+PPC ghost-heat link should be raised to three before penalty rather than two. 'Mechs like the Nightstar would go from blah to relative rockstar status with that change alone.

As for LGauss, I have yet to run it in a match. I might wait for all the Piranha nonsense to die down a bit, now is not the time for long-range warfare.

[RoadblockXL]

I'm driving a SHD-2H with 2xLGauss.

Slinging the equivalent of a regular Gauss about every 2 seconds is pretty sweet. It's enough to match some dual Gauss mechs in raw DPS at least.

The DPS and damage is definitely too low to be useful when mounted individually though.

I'd like to see the number that can be charged simultaneously increased to 3 or 4. It might make a good weapon to mount on assaults then.

Edited by RoadblockXL, 23 January 2018 - 05:46 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Anything alone is generally, crap.

Skill Maze encouraged boating.

Hence 2 LGR will actually work well, if played correctly. Alone as a single weapon it is a waste of time without any other weapon boating to compensate

[Y E O N N E]

The long range DPS with a pair and some ERLL is real.

[The6thMessenger]

justcallme A S H, on 23 January 2018 - 07:36 PM, said:

Anything alone is generally, crap.

Skill Maze encouraged boating.

Hence 2 LGR will actually work well, if played correctly. Alone as a single weapon it is a waste of time without any other weapon boating to compensate

Sure, but considering that's 24 tons that has significantly less output than alternatives, still bad. Even then at 12 tons, LGR should at least out do lighter weapons else it's just not worth it.

[El Bandito]

I still prefer 4xAC2 over 2xLGR.

[The6thMessenger]

El Bandito, on 23 January 2018 - 08:25 PM, said:

I still prefer 4xAC2 over 2xLGR.

Exactly.

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 23 January 2018 - 08:25 PM, said:

I still prefer 4xAC2 over 2xLGR.

Trade-off being that you can't really peak at all with AC/2 but you can at least peak with ERLL + LGauss.

[justcallme A S H]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 January 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

Trade-off being that you can't really peak at all with AC/2 but you can at least peak with ERLL + LGauss.

Which is the point people are missing entirely...

[Kanil]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 January 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

Trade-off being that you can't really peak at all with AC/2 but you can at least peak with ERLL + LGauss.

Why peek with LGauss when you can peek with regular Gauss, though?

[Khobai]

The6thMessenger, on 23 January 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

Tried it, the rate of fire is hillariously good. Of course the damage is something left to be desired as it still results in poor damage. Honestly, i'm now on the group of 10 damage/shot -- yes Khobai you were right, but it can stand retaining the current cooldown buff. At 3.10s recycle time versus 2.5s of that of AC10, it would still result in worse DPS.

I literally played as an Urbanmech with LGR + 2x ERML + XL145 -- i made the LGR at 1.967s cooldown time , i kept shooting both and i couldn't even break 400, and i'm a damn ballistic urbie enthusiast. I can make AC10 Urbie work, but honestly not the LGR. I have to shoot so much shells to do damage, I might as well run 2x AC2 on my Urbie and would result better DPS.

Light Gauss should be 10 damage, 4.0+0.5 cooldown, 810m range, and ghost heat limit of 3 (but charge limit of 2, since all gauss share the same charge limit you cant change it from 2).

And also keep it at 20 ammo per ton when it goes from 8->10 damage.

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At 3.10s recycle time versus 2.5s of that of AC10, it would still result in worse DPS.

Light Gauss is meant to be an extreme range sniping weapon not a dps weapon. Its cooldown should be on the slower side.

By making it ghost heat limit of 3 you allow x2 Light Gauss to be combined with an ERPPC.

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Why peek with LGauss when you can peek with regular Gauss, though?

Thats why LGauss needs to substantially outrange regular Gauss.

Its also why LGauss needs ghost heat limit of 3 (but charge limit of 2) so you can combine x2 LGauss with an ERPPC (or x1 LG and x2 ERPPC). That way you can do 30 damage while still outranging standard Gauss.

LGauss should basically be the ballistic equivalent of the ERPPC.

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Trade-off being that you can't really peak at all with AC/2 but you can at least peak with ERLL + LGauss.

why not?

x2 AC can do 8 damage in 0.72 seconds (UAC2s potentially do twice that)

even if you precharge, light gauss is going to take at least 0.72 seconds to peek out, fire, and get back into cover. So I dont see how light gauss is superior at peeking, its not.

if light gauss is meant to be superior to AC2s at peeking then it really needs to do 10 damage not 8. And it needs better range. And it needs a ghost heat limit of 3. If you could combo it with ERPPC it would be decent.

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Anything alone is generally, crap.

Skill Maze encouraged boating.

Hence 2 LGR will actually work well, if played correctly. Alone as a single weapon it is a waste of time without any other weapon boating to compensate

2 LGR + 1 ERPPC would work well too if the ghost heat limit was upped to 3 like it should be.

Thats still only a 30 damage alpha (assuming a 10 damage light gauss) so its well within reasonable limits.

Where boating gets out of hand is when the alpha damage exceeds 40-50 damage.

Edited by Khobai, 23 January 2018 - 09:55 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Kanil, on 23 January 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

Why peek with LGauss when you can peek with regular Gauss, though?

In this case?

862 meters optimal range.

Also, can't fit 2x ERLL + 2x Gauss onto an IS Heavy without either being prohibitively slow or XL.

[justcallme A S H]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 January 2018 - 09:36 PM, said:

In this case?

862 meters optimal range.

Also, can't fit 2x ERLL + 2x Gauss onto an IS Heavy without either being prohibitively slow or XL.

Eggsaccary.

Plus IS ERL is usually ~800m optimal. Depending on mech/quirks etc. So syncs up very nicely and lets you use that extreme range with some added pinpoint that regular gauss does not because of the damage fall off.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 23 January 2018 - 09:23 PM, said:

Light Gauss should be 10 damage, 4.0+0.5 cooldown, 810m range, and ghost heat limit of 3 (but charge limit of 2, since all gauss share the same charge limit you cant change it from 2)

No, it's fine as it is, just increase the damage. We already have figuratively blistering ROF for the LGR right now, further reduce it even if you just have 10 damage, you still further lower the damage you deal overtime.

What you're suggesting is ******* ********.

You don't believe me? Current ROF and damage would put the DPS to 2.5806451612903225806451612903226, now with 4.00 cd + 0.5s for 10 damage, 2.2222222222222222222222222222222 DPS, a 13.8889% decrease in DPS. That means we can expect 13.8889% drop in our total LGR damage per match, when we're already doing low damage.

Khobai, on 23 January 2018 - 09:23 PM, said:

Light Gauss is meant to be an extreme range sniping weapon not a dps weapon. Its cooldown should be on the slower side.

Again, Clan is supposed to be technologically superior, yet PGI took steps to quell the differences, the game tries to balance it. So your "muh lore" is irrelevant.

Lol no. Being a sniper does not mean your rate of fire should stink -- hell it's damage already stinks. Unless you turn it's damage into 12 than 10, it should have good rate of fire to boot. At 10 damage, 2.6 + 0.5s, it will still be good extreme-range sniping weapon, i don't know what the **** are you belly-aching about.

You want to apply real world examples?

A sniper is an individual with a role, any weapon will literally do so long as it does the job, it just turns out long-range rifles usually do the job best for long-range shooting. The SVD is both a Designated Marksman and a Sniper Rifle -- because it's about employment. Were you thinking those in the line of .50 BMG level Sniper Rifles? Because those are anti-materiel rifles, and even so the US military anti-materiel rifle is the M107 Barrett, which is semi-automatic -- and if you don't know what that means, it means you can shoot quickly with it. You know what else are semi-automatic sniper rifles? PSG1s, M110 -- and yes the 7.62x51mm NATO has at about 800 meters of effective range.

You want people to lower their rate of fire? Already calculating and considering how your shots will land should already lower the rate of fire.

In short, no, **** no. If it's damage is at a meager 10, it should be compensated by good rate of fire, and with it being an "extreme-long-range weapon" has nothing to do with it.

Khobai, on 23 January 2018 - 09:23 PM, said:

By making it ghost heat limit of 3 you allow x2 Light Gauss to be combined with an ERPPC.

**** that, i don't want any more gauss-ppc combination.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 January 2018 - 10:46 PM.

[Khobai]

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Again, Clan is supposed to be technologically superior, yet PGI took steps to quell the differences, the game tries to balance it. So your "muh lore" is irrelevant.

there is no "muh lore"

light gauss being an extreme range sniping weapon comes from the fact that its the only niche left that another ballistic weapon doesnt already fill

its the only niche that light gauss can occupy and potentially be useful in.

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In short, no, **** no. If it's damage is at a meager 10, it should be compensated by good rate of fire, and with it being an "extreme-long-range weapon" has nothing to do with it.

no because then youve just created an autocannon variation. like some kindve hypervelocity autocannon 10.

light gauss is not an autocannon. its a gauss weapon.

gauss weapons fire slower and have longer range and very low heat. thats what fundamentally sets gauss apart from autocannons.

different weapons are different.

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**** that, i don't want any more gauss-ppc combination.

its only 30 damage. 30 damage isnt going to break anything.

Edited by Khobai, 23 January 2018 - 10:49 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Even having the LGR count as only half a GR for simultaneous fire limits (both charging and ghost heat) would go a long way toward making the weapon useful.

[The6thMessenger]

Khobai, on 23 January 2018 - 10:44 PM, said:

there is no "muh lore"

light gauss being an extreme range sniping weapon comes from the fact that its the only niche left that another weapon doesnt already fill

its the only niche that light gauss can occupy and potentially be useful in.

Oh, and how is shooting faster LGR suddenly hurt it's "Extreme Long Range"?

Khobai, on 23 January 2018 - 10:44 PM, said:

no because then youve just created an autocannon variation

its a gauss not an autocannon.

gauss fires slower and has longer range. thats what sets gauss apart from autocannons.

no because then youve just created an autocannon variation. like some kindve hypervelocity autocannon 10.

light gauss is not an autocannon. its a gauss weapon.

gauss weapons fire slower and have longer range and very low heat. thats what fundamentally sets gauss apart from autocannons.

different weapons are different.

What, are you just going to repeat yourself over and over until you're right? There's a lot more nuance needed than just invoking "gauss is gauss, ac is ac"

No, what sets gauss rifles apart from autocannons are their mode of propulsion such as magnetic induction, resulting in low heat, extreme projectile speed that translate to extreme range, there is also ergonomic changes such as charge-time which quells reactivity and that the weapon explodes while the ammo doesn't. Their rate of fire is irrelevant, whether the LGR or GR shoots fast, if it is still magnetic propulsion resulting in extreme projectile velocity and low heat, it's still a god damn "gauss rifle", not an "autocannon".

So what if it would be ala- HVAC10? the HVAC10 would still have superior DPS, aside from being actually heavier at 14 tons to deserve it. Guess what, Sarna HVAC10 stats are 1-6/7-12/13-20, versus LGR at 8/17/25 -- which means that the LGR is STILL better at long range.

And so what if it's just a "Variation"? It would still do it's niche job properly. LGR would still be the go to for extreme long-range shooting and dps.

Again, you want 4.00s cooldown? ******* 12 damage. If just 10 damage, then it should have an adjusted cooldown to compensate.

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The Gauss Rifle family of weaponry is designed around high Damage for minimal Heat at relatively long ranges, with the Light Gauss' primary features revolving around its long range and its very fast projectile speed. With this patch, we have provided the Light Gauss with a moderate boost in overall DPS to provide it better value considering the weight of the weapon, without overlapping its role with similarly weighted weapons. We have also reduced its Heat. While this may seem superfluous given its already low Heat value, with the added DPS we found the weapon was causing just enough Heat to stall out of the dissipation of Heat reserves for weaponry paired with the Light Gauss. As minimal Heat is at the heart of its niche, this behavior was not providing us with the intended benefit of supporting supplemental weapons paired with this rifle, and therefore necessitated a reduction in its Heat.

And now consider that the AC10 shoots 10 PPFLD every 2.5s, whereas the LGR does so every 3.10s assuming same damage, no the AC10 would still do better damage and the LGR wouldn't out-shine or trample the AC10 in it's range bracket. As far as i'm concerned, there is nothing there that suggests that GRs in general wouldn't have good rate of fire, all it said is good damage, and then the rate of fire is balanced around that damage. But considering just 10 damage, then it should should have a good rate of fire accordingly.

Khobai, on 23 January 2018 - 10:44 PM, said:

its only 30 damage. 30 damage isnt going to break anything.

No, just no. Lets not bring back that cancerous **** ever again.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 23 January 2018 - 11:05 PM.