26 replies to this topic

[LivewireWill]

Hello! So I am pretty experienced with QP and today I dropped into a scouting match. Why are the people in FP such Jerks?(Note: I report the very rude ones)
First time dropping into FP, with an urbie, now before you roast me. The thing is mastered and I am quite skilled with it. I also did not do poorly, dropped a Nova on my own, team abandoned me.
I beat him and moved on. The objective was easy enough.
What would you recommend for FP and why? Also, why are the people so rude?

[sneakolai]

The meta in Scouting (IS) seems to be a Bushwhacker, though Griffins are also popular. I personally enjoy running a Kintaro. On the Clan side you used to see Huntsmen and Novas with the occasional Ice Ferret for long distance speedy trolling. Now that the Stormcrow is allowed again you'll probably see that a whole darn lot. It used to be THE Scouting meta, and the reason why Clan was restricted to 50 tons.

My experience with Faction Play and rudeness is that it stems from frustration and impatience. It is not a forgiving mode of play (neither Scouting nor normal Faction play). In Scouting, a single mistake can damn your entire team to a loss. You don't have 11 people to lean on, only 3, so if 1 player is off derping around somehow, you are at 75 percent effectiveness. In normal faction play where you bring 4 'Mechs, the game lasts so long, and can take a long time to start, that common errors are compounded. You NEED your teammates for coordinated pushes/defenses, so those dunderheads bringing LRMs on a brawl map or tin foil armor lights on the first drop are really going to screw you over. (Or maybe you are the dunderhead -- in which case others will be vocal about how much you screwed them over.)

It's just not Quick Play, which is over and done with, with 11 other people to take responsibility.

[Grus]

LivewireWill, on 26 January 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

Hello! So I am pretty experienced with QP and today I dropped into a scouting match. Why are the people in FP such Jerks?(Note: I report the very rude ones)
First time dropping into FP, with an urbie, now before you roast me. The thing is mastered and I am quite skilled with it. I also did not do poorly, dropped a Nova on my own, team abandoned me.
I beat him and moved on. The objective was easy enough.
What would you recommend for FP and why? Also, why are the people so rude?

ok... dont bring a Urbi to FP.. ever... there are much better options in the line up, let alone for scouting. get a Bushwacker or a SRM boat Griffen.

the reason you have "jerks" in FP is because (and this isnt a excuse) this is supposed to be the "end game". You wouldnt expect to get into a Raid for a end game boss with just basic gear on would you? no you need to bring your A game. that means you need to have and bring the "meta" at the time. and that shifts *** new mechs come and new clan nerfs are applied....

So because you brought sub prime mechs and load-outs that means the other people on your team have to carry harder.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Grus, on 26 January 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

ok... dont bring a Urbi to FP.. ever... there are much better options in the line up, let alone for scouting. get a Bushwacker or a SRM boat Griffen.

the reason you have "jerks" in FP is because (and this isnt a excuse) this is supposed to be the "end game". You wouldnt expect to get into a Raid for a end game boss with just basic gear on would you? no you need to bring your A game. that means you need to have and bring the "meta" at the time. and that shifts *** new mechs come and new clan nerfs are applied....

So because you brought sub prime mechs and load-outs that means the other people on your team have to carry harder.

Implying you can't carry hard in an urby.

[LivewireWill]

I see. I personally hate using anything bigger than medium, because it feels so sluggishly slow.
On the flip side I don't run ultra lights. Getting blasted with 1 ac20 is lame. Plus I can't keep up with anything at speeds higher than 120 kph x)
The only medium I have in that group is a Griffin the loyalty one. Even it feels awkward however.
Basically though, if I bring anything less than 50 tons I'm going to get hate?
And that's a poor comparison. RPG style luck is not the same as skill. I can give the most meta mech to a crappy player and beat them in an ac20 urbie.

Edited by LivewireWill, 26 January 2018 - 11:11 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

LivewireWill, on 26 January 2018 - 11:08 AM, said:

Basically though, if I bring anything less than 50 tons I'm going to get hate?

You will get hate IF you bring non-meta AND your team loses because of that. You are denying them their victory after all.

If you can carry and win with urbie then your teammates dіckishness at start will turn to awe in the end.

Edited by Nema Nabojiv, 26 January 2018 - 11:17 AM.

[r4zen]

sneakolai, on 26 January 2018 - 10:56 AM, said:

The meta in Scouting (IS) seems to be a Bushwhacker, though Griffins are also popular. I personally enjoy running a Kintaro. On the Clan side you used to see Huntsmen and Novas with the occasional Ice Ferret for long distance speedy trolling. Now that the Stormcrow is allowed again you'll probably see that a whole darn lot. It used to be THE Scouting meta, and the reason why Clan was restricted to 50 tons.

My experience with Faction Play and rudeness is that it stems from frustration and impatience. It is not a forgiving mode of play (neither Scouting nor normal Faction play). In Scouting, a single mistake can damn your entire team to a loss. You don't have 11 people to lean on, only 3, so if 1 player is off derping around somehow, you are at 75 percent effectiveness. In normal faction play where you bring 4 'Mechs, the game lasts so long, and can take a long time to start, that common errors are compounded. You NEED your teammates for coordinated pushes/defenses, so those dunderheads bringing LRMs on a brawl map or tin foil armor lights on the first drop are really going to screw you over. (Or maybe you are the dunderhead -- in which case others will be vocal about how much you screwed them over.)

It's just not Quick Play, which is over and done with, with 11 other people to take responsibility.

This is a pretty good synopsis, actually.

LivewireWill, on 26 January 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

What would you recommend for FP and why? Also, why are the people so rude?

I don't play scouting very much, so I can't really speak to that, but if you're dropping weird derpy stuff and also doing squat for damage/kills in a 12v12 FP drop, yeah, it's likely people are going to give you crap. People will tend to be less rude if you carry hard, no matter what 'mech you're in.

The other part is, some people who regularly play FP (scouting or invasion) have seen endless pugs roll in with their weird, inefficient, or downright stupid builds and contribute very little to the match, and can be super touchy about it. After seeing the same dude bring the same LRM deck to maps that are bad for LRMs, and do ~400-500 damage (combined) each time over all 4 of their 'mechs, I can understand someone being salty when they see the next guy roll in with a LRM deck. Gnomesayin'?

[RobotPandaMaster]

Grus, on 26 January 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

ok... dont bring a Urbi to FP.. ever... there are much better options in the line up, let alone for scouting. get a Bushwacker or a SRM boat Griffen.

the reason you have "jerks" in FP is because (and this isnt a excuse) this is supposed to be the "end game". You wouldnt expect to get into a Raid for a end game boss with just basic gear on would you? no you need to bring your A game. that means you need to have and bring the "meta" at the time. and that shifts *** new mechs come and new clan nerfs are applied....

So because you brought sub prime mechs and load-outs that means the other people on your team have to carry harder.

I am an avid Urbie fan that brings them to faction play and ignores the groans of others because he is right.
Endgame doesn't mean "Meta"<-- this is rubbish. Endgame in MWO means you are a skilled pilot. Now hopefully you utilize your preferred mech in the most useful way, but that doesn't mean you have to bring a specific mech.

Edited by RobotPandaMaster, 26 January 2018 - 11:38 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Grus, on 26 January 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

ok... dont bring a Urbi to FP.. ever... there are much better options in the line up, let alone for scouting. get a Bushwacker or a SRM boat Griffen.

the reason you have &quot;jerks&quot; in FP is because (and this isnt a excuse) this is supposed to be the &quot;end game&quot;. You wouldnt expect to get into a Raid for a end game boss with just basic gear on would you? no you need to bring your A game. that means you need to have and bring the &quot;meta&quot; at the time. and that shifts *** new mechs come and new clan nerfs are applied....

So because you brought sub prime mechs and load-outs that means the other people on your team have to carry harder.

I will say it....Grus is right this time...wow that hurt more than I thought it would to say. Lol

I will add:
You can be good with an Urbie in QP...but you aren’t fighting any plodding assaults in scouting and the OP obviously doesn’t understand the chance of running into Clan streakboats is far higher in scouting then in QP (piranha event exempted). Even an Urbie can only tank so many streaks and (unlike the bushwacker) it lacks the firepower to kill the streakboat first.

[Mole]

Why are people jerks? Because when you are playing 4v4 every 'mech is far more important than they are in 12v12. If you bring a loadout not suited for scouting, you are dragging your team down far more than if you brought a build in QP that wasn't that great. And some people take this game WAY too seriously. So there are some people that get VERY upset when they feel like someone has brought a build that is dragging them down. This is all about perception and perception is not always reality. Maybe you're a real asset to your team with that Urbanmech, but when people see it, they immediatly percieve you as a liability and want to attack you accordingly because the Urbanmech is not widely considered a 'mech that is suited for scouting missions. I'd say you just ignore the tryhards and keep doing you, man.

[Mystere]

Nema Nabojiv, on 26 January 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

You will get hate IF you bring non-meta AND your team loses because of that.

FTFY.

It's almost always nothing but looking for a scapegoat.

[RobotPandaMaster]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 26 January 2018 - 11:20 AM, said:

I will say it....Grus is right this time...wow that hurt more than I thought it would to say. Lol

I will add:
You can be good with an Urbie in QP...but you aren’t fighting any plodding assaults in scouting and the OP obviously doesn’t understand the chance of running into Clan streakboats is far higher in scouting then in QP (piranha event exempted). Even an Urbie can only tank so many streaks and (unlike the bushwacker) it lacks the firepower to kill the streakboat first.

This used to be true. However with the R60L and new skill tree, you have the ability to fire an ac20 as fast as an unquirked small laser. Given your an amazing shot, you can drop XL mechs quickly with their side torso.
There is also now a loyalty missile urbie. I have a build on that with 2srm6 and 3 ML. Its not a ridiculous 100 point alpha, but the thing will have better mobility with a max engine.
*Edit* I forgot about Clan XL engine being evil-sorry! Still ac20 that fast is terrifying to most player!

Edited by RobotPandaMaster, 26 January 2018 - 11:31 AM.

[Spheroid]

An Urbanmech is not a good choice for scouting. The mode revolves around rapid forced attrition at close range with large alphas. By dropping 25 tons underweight you denied your side a sizeable amount of firepower. I don't care how tanky your urbanmech is, if the enemy is alive and has legs longer than necessary you are doing something wrong.

Why bring an Urbanmech when a Crab has twice the firepower? Why bring a 30 tonner when you could bring a 55 ton death machine with anywhere from SRM16 to SRM30 or the also very powerful quad ASRM6?

Edited by Spheroid, 26 January 2018 - 11:42 AM.

[Mole]

RobotPandaMaster, on 26 January 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

I have a build on that with 2srm6 and 3 ML. Its not a ridiculous 100 point alpha, but the thing will have better mobility with a max engine.

I speak from experience when I say that the Urbanmech UM-R68 with 2 SRM6+ARTEMIS and 3 ERML (Or MLs if you want to sacrifice the range for lasers for a better recycle time. Matter of preference there.) and max engine is a beast. I used to be good in my Urbie before I got the loyalty Urbie with 4 ERMLs and 2 HMGs. But this thing upped my Urbie game like crazy. I've always felt like piloting an Urbie was a choice between being slow and vulnerable with heavy firepower or being somewhat fast with not much firepower. Which was true with the ballistics variants. But the SRMs give the Urbanmech a 40 point alpha that simply cannot be ignored while also allowing it to be fast. It's great. Best loyalty 'mech I ever got.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Others have said it already, its mostly just that lights are suboptimal in scouting. Its like if everyone else on the team is using an assault rifle and you have a pistol, people already start counting you out as being an asset to the team if you're in a light.

Urban mech doesn't really move fast, even compared to mediums such as the Bushwacker, which is commonly moving around at 82kph. Bushwacker also has around twice as much armor as the Urbanmech, if not more, and hits a whole lot harder.

That said, a lot of times I don't see many people bringing optimal builds or mechs to scouting in the first place. Most people who do decide to just group up with other like-minded people so they don't have to have the argument. You most likely just met some angry people who are mad at losing repeatedly and looking to blame the person who isn't really carrying their weight by dropping underweight.

[Lanzman]

So what y'all are saying is basically the best mech to bring to Scouting is a high-end medium with lots of SRMs? Or does laser vomit work as well?

[MechaBattler]

Because if they're dropping all medium, they want you to drop medium too. They want something that is durable and can eat enemy legs fast. Even if you can do well individually in a drawn out 1v1. It doesn't equate to rapid leg eating when its 4v4. What does it matter if you do well, if the rest of the team is losing to coordinated heavier fire?

Conversely if they're dropping all light. They want something that can keep up. At that point you're at best a distraction for the enemy team since you can't keep up.

Edited by MechaBattler, 26 January 2018 - 01:35 PM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

RobotPandaMaster, on 26 January 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

This used to be true. However with the R60L and new skill tree, you have the ability to fire an ac20 as fast as an unquirked small laser. Given your an amazing shot, you can drop XL mechs quickly with their side torso.
There is also now a loyalty missile urbie. I have a build on that with 2srm6 and 3 ML. Its not a ridiculous 100 point alpha, but the thing will have better mobility with a max engine.
*Edit* I forgot about Clan XL engine being evil-sorry! Still ac20 that fast is terrifying to most player!

I won’t pile on as you seem sincere in your questioning. I think the difference (of your opinion Vs. Most of the community) can be boiled down to you are viewing “what that Urbie could do” Vs. “What that Urbie is most likely to do”. We have all had amazing games in sub-optimal mechs...however game results don’t solely depend on the choices we (ourselves) make..they depend in part on the choices our opponents make...and in scouting (no matter how personally amazing you are with an Urbie) you opponent is likely to choose mechs where you (and thus your team) will be operating at a disadvantage if you bring it.

[Xavori]

Your subject line asked recommended builds, so here they are:

Clan:
Huntsman P - streak boat
Huntsman Pahket (my fav) - streak boat
Stormcrow Whatever (it's an omni and none have streak quirks) - streak boat
Ice Ferret P or Rainbow Crow (ECM) - CERLL's

IS
Griffin 2N with SRM6's (all those streakboat clan builds are weaksauce against a stealth splat mech)
Bushwacker X1 - 4x ballistic hardpoints and a ballistic range quirk. Fantastic for breaking legs...like the great big ones on a Stormcrow
Bushwacker P1 - streak boat
Kintaro 18 or Goldenboy (my fav) - streak boat

For damage/matchscore events, your only real choice is streakboats. You need to farm damage, and spreading damage all over an enemy is the best way to do that.

For brawling, kill enemies, the IS has a distinct advantage in that the X1 utter wtfpwns legs. They can also match up pretty solidly on streak boating IF, and I cannot emphasize this enough, you are skilled at using terrain to close distance. If not, the extra range of the Clan streaks will wtfpwn you before you ever get close.

If you are IS, and the Clan brought a SniperCrow, just die and leave and start a new match. The match will take forever to finish because the Crow is fantastic at holding range, not so great at actually doing damage

For actually playing scouting...why would you do that? It doesn't pay. You get little XP. You get few faction rep points. Seriously, don't play objectives.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Lanzman, on 26 January 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

So what y'all are saying is basically the best mech to bring to Scouting is a high-end medium with lots of SRMs? Or does laser vomit work as well?

Yep, high end med with SRMs is best. Lasers are for if you're kiting out of SRM ranges.