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So, Why Do New Players Quit?


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#261 Eirik Eriksson

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 03:49 PM

View PostS O L A I S, on 17 March 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:


You are not saying anything.

You no longer appear to be trying to make any kind of point.

Guess you are as bad at expressing yourself as you are at playing the game.


I think @Naterist are very close to achieving what he set out for ;).

#262 Elad

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 03:59 PM

View PostS O L A I S, on 17 March 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:


My point stands. If you can't even manage to make it to meaningless tier one, when it is just so very easy, you are likely a player who is waaaay below average.

So again, you will run into (in your case more often than not) players who are far better at the game.




Did you guys figure this out yet? Waiting to find out if I'm below average since I'm tier 3 trash.

#263 S O L A I S

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 04:42 PM

View PostSlow Speed, on 17 March 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:


I think @Naterist are very close to achieving what he set out for Posted Image.


Well I may have believed you there if you hadn't started off with 'I think'.

#264 Eirik Eriksson

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 04:45 PM

View PostElad, on 17 March 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:



Did you guys figure this out yet? Waiting to find out if I'm below average since I'm tier 3 trash.


No worries, just me playing around with a guy that think he knows a lot. We are still waiting for him to reveal his tier 1 account though.

#265 S O L A I S

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 04:46 PM

View PostElad, on 17 March 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:



Did you guys figure this out yet? Waiting to find out if I'm below average since I'm tier 3 trash.


The average player will float on up to tier 1.

I don't even know what to make of Paul's explanation other than I find it disingenuous since it was named pilot skill rating, but the average experienced player and worse should be making the steady climb to tier 1 as planned according to him.

You don't even have to be particularly good in order to skyrocket through tiers, especially the lower ones.

#266 Eirik Eriksson

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 05:13 PM

View PostS O L A I S, on 17 March 2018 - 04:46 PM, said:


You don't even have to be particularly good in order to skyrocket through tiers, especially the lower ones.


I suppose a tier 3 player can make that conclusion without even having done more than the lower ones?

#267 Yondu Udonta

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 11:25 PM

Any average potato can easily be T2 or T1. I play QP on my main account which is T1 and the skill level there is pathetic. Occasionally I do come across some of the big boys in FP but most of the time it is endless fields of potatoes. Would roll over them real hard but I bring unmastered mechs to train in QP. The best way to judge a player's skill level for now is to Jarl's them, not this tier system, oh hang on a sec I forgot not everyone can be Jarled.

#268 Enortiz

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 12:46 AM

Well, as someone who started playing FP ~2 month ago and has by now pretty much given up on it I have to ask.
Whats the incentive for playing FP supposed to be for either new or old players?

You dont get more cbills than in QP and you get less XP per mech.

The rewards for ranks in FP are such a joke that i would almost call them an insult. For example getting from rank 8-9 needs 31800 LP and the reward is 800.000 cbills and 4500GXP. At the same time almost constant QP events throw millions at me for looking at the enemy funny once or twice.

Story reasons also dont exist, attacking or defending planets is meaningless, the tug of war mechanik a poor system. I never even know what planets we are currently fighting for, since it does not matter to anyone.

Being loyal to a faction is also meaningless, i am loyal to House steiner since 2 month, so what? Who cares, it does not matter if you are loyal to a faction or switch as fast as you can. And in the next patch you can hop around factions however you like anyway.

There is no sense of fighting for or achieving anything "for you faction".

It seems all i get from playing FP over QP is even worse balance and longer queue times.
So, why would players, new or old, good or bad, play it?
At this point i am surprised that it is played as much as it is.

Edited by Enortiz, 18 March 2018 - 12:56 AM.


#269 Horseman

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 01:22 AM

View PostEnortiz, on 18 March 2018 - 12:46 AM, said:

You dont get more cbills than in QP and you get less XP per mech.
Incorrect. If you're dropping with a team, you can rack in ~1-1.5 million per drop and several thousand XP for 2 to 4 mechs each.

Quote

It seems all i get from playing FP over QP is even worse balance and longer queue times.
So, why would players, new or old, good or bad, play it?
At this point i am surprised that it is played as much as it is.

Are you dropping solo in FP, or have you found a regular group to drop with?

#270 Enortiz

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 01:56 AM

View PostHorseman, on 18 March 2018 - 01:22 AM, said:

Incorrect. If you're dropping with a team, you can rack in ~1-1.5 million per drop and several thousand XP for 2 to 4 mechs each.


Yes, i make as much or more in QP for the same time investment. And thats not even taking the longer queue times into account. With the queue times its not even a contest.

#271 Yondu Udonta

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 06:13 AM

View PostEnortiz, on 18 March 2018 - 12:46 AM, said:

Well, as someone who started playing FP ~2 month ago and has by now pretty much given up on it I have to ask.
Whats the incentive for playing FP supposed to be for either new or old players?

You dont get more cbills than in QP and you get less XP per mech.

The rewards for ranks in FP are such a joke that i would almost call them an insult. For example getting from rank 8-9 needs 31800 LP and the reward is 800.000 cbills and 4500GXP. At the same time almost constant QP events throw millions at me for looking at the enemy funny once or twice.

Story reasons also dont exist, attacking or defending planets is meaningless, the tug of war mechanik a poor system. I never even know what planets we are currently fighting for, since it does not matter to anyone.

Being loyal to a faction is also meaningless, i am loyal to House steiner since 2 month, so what? Who cares, it does not matter if you are loyal to a faction or switch as fast as you can. And in the next patch you can hop around factions however you like anyway.

There is no sense of fighting for or achieving anything "for you faction".

It seems all i get from playing FP over QP is even worse balance and longer queue times.
So, why would players, new or old, good or bad, play it?
At this point i am surprised that it is played as much as it is.


I play FP to improve myself. At a certain point in time you will realize that your average games as T1 are full of idiots nascaring around and running stupid bracket builds that performs poorly. Come to FP and sure sometimes you might come across a field of potatoes but when you go up against decent players you learn how to become even better at the game. FP is also more team oriented so people who want to play in a team play FP rather than group QP.

#272 Horseman

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 08:25 AM

View PostEnortiz, on 18 March 2018 - 01:56 AM, said:

Yes, i make as much or more in QP for the same time investment.
I find this statement questionable. Can you take screenshots and share with the class?

Quote

And thats not even taking the longer queue times into account. With the queue times its not even a contest.
The queue times are affected by your group size, and noticeably improve at 4+ people in group.

Edited by Horseman, 18 March 2018 - 08:26 AM.


#273 C H E E K I E Z

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 08:29 AM

View PostYondu the Ravager, on 17 March 2018 - 11:25 PM, said:

Any average potato can easily be T2 or T1. I play QP on my main account which is T1 and the skill level there is pathetic. Occasionally I do come across some of the big boys in FP but most of the time it is endless fields of potatoes. Would roll over them real hard but I bring unmastered mechs to train in QP. The best way to judge a player's skill level for now is to Jarl's them, not this tier system, oh hang on a sec I forgot not everyone can be Jarled.


My Jarl's is absolute garbage, because almost any time i go into QP, and many many many people can attest to this, i bring absolute toll mechs, either 1 shot 1 kill dire-star-esq builds, or 8 light PPC boats, or just stupid things. Its where i go to just poop around. Even in FP, i 100% dont care about stats, and usually die 4 times every game just because i want fresh mechs with coolshots and strikes. Ill consider a mech trashed when it runs out of consumables.

Edit: like today, to get this QP ******** done, im running my 1 shot 215 pt Pinpoint alpha direwolf. Its fun, i kill 2 people then blow up. Only way i can stand QP

Edited by C H E E K I E Z, 18 March 2018 - 08:29 AM.


#274 Yondu Udonta

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 08:53 AM

View PostC H E E K I E Z, on 18 March 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:


My Jarl's is absolute garbage, because almost any time i go into QP, and many many many people can attest to this, i bring absolute toll mechs, either 1 shot 1 kill dire-star-esq builds, or 8 light PPC boats, or just stupid things. Its where i go to just poop around. Even in FP, i 100% dont care about stats, and usually die 4 times every game just because i want fresh mechs with coolshots and strikes. Ill consider a mech trashed when it runs out of consumables.

Edit: like today, to get this QP ******** done, im running my 1 shot 215 pt Pinpoint alpha direwolf. Its fun, i kill 2 people then blow up. Only way i can stand QP


I know well enough how powerful you are when you play serious ;)

#275 C H E E K I E Z

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 09:08 AM

View PostYondu the Ravager, on 18 March 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:


I know well enough how powerful you are when you play serious Posted Image


Streaming Direstar 2.0
https://www.twitch.tv/dccheekiez

#276 Leone

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 09:10 AM

View PostElad, on 17 March 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

Did you guys figure this out yet? Waiting to find out if I'm below average since I'm tier 3 trash.

Naw, pay no mind to them, you're doing great. I'm only tier three as well, but I'd still rather a mate like you on my team than some random tier one bloke.

~Leone.

#277 Akillius

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 09:54 AM

View PostDarakor Stormwind, on 17 March 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

As someone that has returned (I played in beta, lost interest, came back) I can say why I consider quitting (again).


Welcome back then Darakor.
Perhaps your comment should've been in its own topic?

On the other hand it showed how new or less experienced players get no help because the "ubers" are busy bickering semantics among themselves and it also shows how unwelcoming the forum community has become (generally speaking).
On the bright side none of them welcomed you with a whatev dude jus git gud and so inadvertently you showed that the community or lack thereof is at least a part of the problem.

As for your problem of grinding for SP in a new mech all I can do is tell you what I do.
I simply play throughout the week in a good fully SP'd mech.
But I only look at buying a new mech on Friday or Sat. (Or Sunday if I didn't play fri/sat.)
I only spend the cbills on a new mech once I have triple the base price, because upgrades...
and because I want to have enough cbills and General XP to get at least 25 skill points on a new mech.

And returning to the OP.
The long waits and salty loudmouths and lack of useful help that turned me off FP.
The only team I enjoyed dropping with was Rasalhague back a few years before I renamed from Akillius.
That was the only team I could join their TS and simply hook up with a team and we just played. No one snarked if we didn't win (but matches were always close), no one questioned me like I was a suspect for a crime, no one coached me on basic crap I already knew, no one was dishing out cynical sarcastic negativity and calling it "help". The were all just relaxed pros at FP.
But then I joined a unit that all when to H.E. double hockey sticks and when the full refund on all modules was reneged for skill tree I tried their Team Speak several times but it was dead quiet.
But in all honestly I absolutely hated the extra long wait of 20-80 minutes for one drop in FP so I can't be bothered to return.

#278 Khulod

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 10:33 AM

Well, maybe my input is worth something.

I've played this game for a long time, but as a casual who dropped out for years at a time. I only have a few mechs (14). I score decently in quick play half of the time, die quickly the other half, and made it to tier 3. Steam says I have 178 hours played, but that doesn't count the pre-Steam years.

I hung on to this game by the skin of my teeth for most of the time. Why? I really love mech warfare games. As a kid I really loved Mechwarrior 2 and Mercenaries, and Starsiege. MWO is, as far as I know, the only modern game on the market that features this style of game play. At the same time, it is absolutely brutal to get into.

I recall back when I started playing I only used the trial mechs. Then I wanted to buy my first mech. Something iconic (this really matters to me!). It became the Catapult C1. 2xALRM 20's, 4 medium lasers, AMS and loads and loads of ammo and a engine that barely allows it to move (STD 190). And I still have that mech. That mech is the reason I'm still in the game? Why? Missile boating is something that gives a noob a fighting chance. It's dumb, easy and gives you pleasant scores and a fuzzy feeling. That slow little LRM boat gave me the feeling I can do something in this game except get my face blown off, and that keeps you in the game.

Because I got my face blown off a LOT. I mentioned this game is brutal. It's in fact utterly unforgiving. As a noob, once you start getting hit, more often then not you have no clue what's going on or what's hitting you and you'll be dead or missing an arm before you get yourself to safety. That is, as one might say, not fun if that's your first, and repeated, taste of the game. Having fun in games is why people keep playing the game.

So fast forward a lot of games in my trusty Catapult I started to notice what a grind it is to get to the next mech. How some of you have over 100 mechs baffles me. Either that's a *ridiculous* amount of money to sink in any one game or a similarly *rediculous* amount of hours played. That turned me off. I was a fanatic WoW player, I knew I wasn't going to show that same dedication to MWO because it wasn't nearly as deep and social as WoW. And here comes an important part; social interaction is absent. Completely absent. Especially in the starting days years ago. At least now everyone has voice chat, but even then, you never see the same person twice. Clans/Guilds? Never once seen a mention of them in game. I see the tags but... egh? Why? How do I even begin finding one? Why would one recruit me if I disappear for months on end and am a casual player with a few mediocre mechs and similarly mediocre skills? In WoW, if you wanted to achieve something (in the old days), you needed a competent, social guild working together. MWO? Not really. It's just a grind. Faction Warfare doesn't really offer anything over Quick Play. The big star map? I've seen it. I don't even know what kind of impact it has.

Anyhow, back to my MWO career. Then I got my next mech. Ahh, the big daddy. THE BEST MECH IN THE MWO UNIVERSE. The classic. The poster child. The end-all-be all. I speak, of course, of the Atlas AS7-D-DC. So why did I pick it? I did mention I consider the story and iconic mechs matter to me. I don't recall if the Atlas was considered good at the time. What did matter to me was that it had a metric tonne of armor and that meant that my face was going to be blown off considerably slower. It performed decently and allowed me to experiment with a few builds. I really loved that mech. It's sad that its role has diminished. Annihalators are ugly, you know? Really ugly.

At some point I tried faction warfare. Briefly. It is a place where masochists go. Why would you even *want* to play that? Abysmal queuing times only to be roflstomped instantly. I mean, I know I'm mediocre, but in QP I can at least have some fun. Over there's it's perfectly statted minmaxed mechs only. I swear I got sour looks from my team when my Atlas dropped in their midst. The enemy team loved me though. Rarely have I seen so many blue laser pointers aimed at me.

It is *NOT* fun.

Then I bought a mech, the Timber Wolf TBR-C(S). This is the first mech that actually made me learn the game beyond point and click. It's fast, maneuverable and allows for advanced tactics other then peekaboo. Let me tell you something. New players won't even go this far. They will have been punished so frigging hard by this stage that the game stopped being fun long ago. They will be gone.

So I recall that after the Timber Wolf I took a long hiatus from the game. Easily over a year, maybe 2. Another thing to consider is that I got on board when the game was new, so all the players were similarly new and struggling. Nowadays, 'because all the new players quit', most people you'll meet are veterans, also in quick play. I noticed that difference when I got back. That's not exactly a newbie friendly environment as everyone on your team knows what to do, ditto for the enemy, but not you. That can get very confusing, very fast. I just followed the rest and hoped for the best, basically, and then learned the hard way from which direction the hurting can come.

I tried going back to Faction Warfare it this year. But having to read through hard to find guides on what is a good mech (and try finding a guide that's current), then going through the agony of buying a mech to find that its playstyle doesn't suit you (the Hellbringer in my case), is such a waste.

So quick play for me. I bought the Kodiak pack (good choice, the KDK-3 suits me!) and have been having some fun recently with a Roughneck. But at this stage I consider myself mediocre. I know that newbie me would have stood no chance in hell with the Roughneck. I see people recommend it to new players. Bad idea. I think it's a good mech for a decent player with a few hundred games under their belt. I think it's abhorrently bad for a newbie. Why? It's a complex mech to play. Newbies aren't ready for the multi-faceted attention you need for different weapon types, heat management, movement, map awareness and positioning that a Roughneck requires. Tell them to get a Kodiak-3 with 4xLB10-X. No heat to worry about, a single weapon to point and click and survivability in one sturdy package. That's what I wish I had known when I started the game. In a way I did, the Catapult wasn't really different with its LRM's but left something left to be desired (seeing the enemy you are shooting at, for one).

Hmm, anything else to write? Hmm, nah, I'm done. I think I sum my newb experience up nicely.

TL:DR; My love for the Mechwarrior setting is what kept me in the game. Take that away, you have a game with an absurd learning curve with a ton of newbie pitfalls as well as an intense grind before achieving mediocrity. That's why new players quit.

#279 Paperdog

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 06:29 AM

Came back after 1,5 years of absence. Played 3 QP rounds wiht my light mechs (meddling with skilltrees a mere hour).
3 games-3 chrushing defeats. I felt utterly powerless agains the enemy.My team can't even see the red doritos. No one made locks and everyone played the game like 1,5 years before (tunnelvision+deathcircle+no objective play).
I was one of the few dedicated Spider pilots during the great clan cheeta invasion, I can't even look at my spidey now.
The game feels the sameafer 1,5 years, but in a bad way.

#280 ThrottleFox

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:37 AM

I have to agree with a lot of what Khulod said, specially the part about having to grind a mech because its recommended as a good mech or good for newbies ect, just to find its not your play style or it simply doesn't feel right.
I will also echo "My love for the Mechwarrior setting is what kept me in the game. Take that away, you have a game with an absurd learning curve with a ton of newbie pitfalls as well as an intense grind before achieving mediocrity. That's why new players quit." it's spot on, the game and setting is fun, the grind for something you might not like, and getting your face blown off in the process is not.





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