374 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Mech The Dane, on 07 February 2018 - 01:39 AM, said:

There's quite a few people who like the Skill Tree. I think ultimately the issue is that it could be better and PGI appears to have just moved on without improving it.



I will be on RJBass stream Wednesday, and more importantly, a community recommendation for balance changes will be released just before that.

It's good this is happening, but P.G.I rarely agree with what the community thinks is needed, or says yes, and goes off on a tangent, and a year later, the end result looks nothing like the thing we hoped for.

Question is can P.G.I deliver this time,

[Bersigil]

Any updates on the balancing - ideas? Wednesday is almost over where I live and I'm curious as hell...

[Bud Crue]

Cathy, on 07 February 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

It's good this is happening, but P.G.I rarely agree with what the community thinks is needed, or says yes, and goes off on a tangent, and a year later, the end result looks nothing like the thing we hoped for.

Question is can P.G.I deliver this time,

I think MTD's video is excellent and raises many of the points that many of us have been raising for a long time, and the fact that PGI is finally acknowledging these issues is great. But lets not fool ourselves here. If we as a community have learned anything from the CW round tables and even to a bit lesser extent the comp play round table, PGI is occasionally willing to play lip service to the wants/needs/demands of the community; but even on these rare instances when it has done this, it does so grudgingly, with no enthusiasm at the moment and after the fact even less so.

In the case at hand, Russ acknowledged the video so people stopped bugging him about it on twitter. His only indication that the video inspired any forthcoming action was the statement that he would discuss it with Chris. That's it. This is NOT community engagement, this is not him listening to MTD's message and taking some drastic steps to address the concerns raised in the video. Rather, it is, at best, merely him asking his twitter followers to stop bugging him.

I suspect that the content of the upcoming podcast will be very similar to interviews, town halls and round tables of the past: Russ will listen to some VERY politely worded questions (so politely worded that their actual implications are lost on him) with barely contained impatience and give non committal answers. There will be no follow-up actions other than more "lip service" regarding balance efforts and perhaps even a few buffs to some true under performing weapons or systems that they will magnanimously grant, so that they can say with all honesty: "we listen to our community". Anything more than that would be unprecedented.

Edited by Bud Crue, 07 February 2018 - 03:12 PM.

[Deathlike]

Bud Crue, on 07 February 2018 - 03:10 PM, said:

I think MTD's video is excellent and raises many of the points that many of us have been raising for a long time, and the fact that PGI is finally acknowledging these issues is great. But lets not fool ourselves here. If we as a community have learned anything from the CW round tables and even to a bit lesser extent the comp play round table, PGI is occasionally willing to play lip service to the wants/needs/demands of the community; but even on these rare instances when it has done this, it does so grudgingly, with no enthusiasm at the moment and after the fact even less so.

In the case at hand, Russ acknowledged the video so people stopped bugging him about it on twitter. His only indication that the video inspired any forthcoming action was the statement that he would discuss it with Chris. That's it. This is NOT community engagement, this is not him listening to MTD's message and taking some drastic steps to address the concerns raised in the video. Rather, it is, at best, merely him asking his twitter followers to stop bugging him.

I suspect that the content of the upcoming podcast will be very similar to interviews, town halls and round tables of the past: Russ will listen to some VERY politely worded questions (so politely worded that their actual implications are lost on him) with barely contained impatience and give non committal answers. There will be no follow-up actions other than more "lip service" regarding balance efforts and perhaps even a few buffs to some true under performing weapons or systems that they will magnanimously grant, so that they can say with all honesty: "we listen to our community". Anything more than that would be unprecedented.

In other words:

What Actually Happened @ PGI said:

TL;DR
Sowwy for blocking you on twitter
Pwease buy a mechpack?

[Khobai]

Quote

I think MTD's video is excellent and raises many of the points that many of us have been raising for a long time, and the fact that PGI is finally acknowledging these issues is great.

someone needs to make a video on how to fix all the issues though

we cant trust PGI to fix things without making them worse lol

engine desync is proof of that. all they had to do was make it so all mechs had consistent agility based on their tonnage (+/- 10%-15%). it was a simple job. and they screwed it up by overnerfing the agility of clan mechs to the point where a lot of them arnt even viable now because theyve lost the ability to do crucial things like torso twist.

acknowledging theres a sickness that needs to be cured is great. but PGI's cures are often worse than the sickness. cutting out diseased organs doesnt help if the patient needs them to live.

Edited by Khobai, 07 February 2018 - 04:21 PM.

[darqsyde]

I haven't had a read through all 17 pages, but has anybody mentioned that the first thing that should be done is to re-rationalize the PSR?

Once the PSR(and by extension MM) is sorted out (I really should be, at best, a Low Tier 2/High Tier 3 player), data to do a proper rebalance would be much more available and more reliable.

[Jarl Dane]

Bersigil, on 07 February 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

Any updates on the balancing - ideas? Wednesday is almost over where I live and I'm curious as hell...

Tarogato has released the initial pass on his groups balancing ideas here.

Deathlike, on 07 February 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

In other words:

True that. But, as we all know, I have a loud mouth. And all the free mechs and trips to Vancouver will not shut me up. I wont let PGI walk away from this one without more community engagement.

They'll have to respond, or they'll have to find a way to shut me up. And so long as the community is with me I don't think the 2nd option is possible.

[Yosharian]

Burke IV, on 07 February 2018 - 06:41 AM, said:

But there are quite a few that dont and they were here first. PGI just rolled over all those people, some who were here for years and put significant moneys into the game. From their behaviour i get the feeling that PGI has a very low opinion of their players. I feel this also because the players couldnt be trusted to play escort nicely so we had to have AI. Bots in a serious FPS are a big no no. But thats not MWO is it?

They were here first?

Really?

So I have to be a Founder to have a say in what happens to the skill tree?

[FireStoat]

Mech The Dane, on 07 February 2018 - 08:36 PM, said:

They'll have to respond, or they'll have to find a way to shut me up. And so long as the community is with me I don't think the 2nd option is possible.

At the end of the last Master's Challenge this week, the viewers were told that Thursday (today) was the day the game's Roadmap would have elements disclosed and that Dane's Video feedback from the game staff would be gone over. Well, it appears that it's not happening as NGNG's Chris is under the weather (I'm guessing this is what's up). No big deal, life goes on. But the point is that PGI put themselves out there in saying what was said, so now it's going to be brought back up by the next Master's Challenge or similar stream because it's something they took on.

I think we will get a response, even if it's just lip service + "Would you like to buy a mechpack?". The short of it is from this seventeen page thread (so far) is that the huge percentage of the posters recall a point where the game was simply more fun for them, and it isn't just rose tinted glasses.

Edited by FireStoat, 08 February 2018 - 07:07 PM.

[Deathlike]

Mech The Dane, on 07 February 2018 - 08:36 PM, said:

True that. But, as we all know, I have a loud mouth. And all the free mechs and trips to Vancouver will not shut me up. I wont let PGI walk away from this one without more community engagement.

They'll have to respond, or they'll have to find a way to shut me up. And so long as the community is with me I don't think the 2nd option is possible.

The most realistic response you'll get from PGI is the following:

Token acknowledgement: Check
Token Town Hall/Response (for feedback): Unknown
Token Changes: ETA, 60 to 90 days?
Non-Token Ban: Anytime soon™

Shutting you up is the most likely destination, but you'll still have followers. We need moar Jarl vids anyways.

I do think there's a limit or point where PGI will decide to shut you up, regardless of the community. Chances are it may be around the time where PGI hypes MW5 despite MWO's continued existence. It doesn't even have to be a perma-ban... just long enough to suppress anything that stands in their way of selling the new game.

Edited by Deathlike, 09 February 2018 - 05:04 AM.

[Khobai]

PGI knows better than to make him a martyr. theyve learned from past mistakes lol

Most likely PGI will string us along with promises of change for a few months

Then give us a minimally viable balance patch that only fixes the worst 5% of the problems while mostly ignoring the other 95%

and the 5% of problems that get fixed will be a mixed bag, because somehow in fixing those problems theyll manage to find a way to nerf clans even more

[mogs01gt]

Mech The Dane, on 26 January 2018 - 05:58 PM, said:

Rescale, Skill-Tree, Engine Desync, Wide-scale weapon nerfs all come together to ruin as many play-styles as possible and force us to live in a clan laservomit hellscape.

Or, more likely, force all your friends to play different games.

THIS MUST STOP


Make MWO Fun again!

Reddit Discussion Link

EDIT: Russ has responded on Twitter.

great video!

[Bersigil]

FireStoat, on 08 February 2018 - 07:07 PM, said:

At the end of the last Master's Challenge this week, the viewers were told that Thursday (today) was the day the game's Roadmap would have elements disclosed and that Dane's Video feedback from the game staff would be gone over. Well, it appears that it's not happening as NGNG's Chris is under the weather (I'm guessing this is what's up). No big deal, life goes on. But the point is that PGI put themselves out there in saying what was said, so now it's going to be brought back up by the next Master's Challenge or similar stream because it's something they took on.

I think we will get a response, even if it's just lip service + "Would you like to buy a mechpack?". The short of it is from this seventeen page thread (so far) is that the huge percentage of the posters recall a point where the game was simply more fun for them, and it isn't just rose tinted glasses.

Well... 15h ago @russ_bullock as asked:
"When is the podcast for weapon balance that is being alluded to in both the forum and reddit community weapon balance discussions scheduled?"
and he answered

"I think it’s been recorded at this point - not sure on when it’s being posted"
so... There has to be something. I just don't understand why it isn't posted already

[Deathlike]

Bersigil, on 09 February 2018 - 09:11 AM, said:

Well... 15h ago @russ_bullock as asked:
"When is the podcast for weapon balance that is being alluded to in both the forum and reddit community weapon balance discussions scheduled?"
and he answered

"I think it’s been recorded at this point - not sure on when it’s being posted"
so... There has to be something. I just don't understand why it isn't posted already

Soon™, 60 to 90 days response.

At this point, some sort of town hall or round table is involved. This is where earplugs to your feedback is involved. It's not important if it isn't a mechpack giving them money to "fix all the problems".

[LowSubmarino]

Why dont you bring up some really relevant topic at the round table for once.

For example, that Mechwarrior Online crashes for 1 - 2 ppl in every single match. Why not talk about that for once at the round table.

[Vonbach]

Engine Desink needs to be reversed. Its killed brawling and made the game less fun.

[Burke IV]

Yosharian, on 08 February 2018 - 05:41 PM, said:

They were here first?

Really?

So I have to be a Founder to have a say in what happens to the skill tree?

Not what i was saying. More that you cant fiddle with stuff you have sold to people. The skill tree was too much.

And also that the right to refuse this particular change is above the right to impose it

Edited by Burke IV, 11 February 2018 - 07:27 AM.

[Deathlike]

oneda, on 11 February 2018 - 06:26 AM, said:

Why dont you bring up some really relevant topic at the round table for once.

For example, that Mechwarrior Online crashes for 1 - 2 ppl in every single match. Why not talk about that for once at the round table.

I get the feeling that has to do with the file patching system and that it is better to get a "fresh pak file" instead of completely relying on pak file patching once in a while. It is akin to keep writing to a compressed file (additions and deletions) and it not working consistently. It's usually better to create a new compressed file from scratch once in a while.

MWO still crashes for other reasons, but I believe it has a lot to do with people's over-reliance on the patching systems in this game. I believe the in-game pak reading is not quite at the same level as the MWO Repair Tool.

[Xetelian]

I agree with this video a lot.

Engine desync made a lot of mechs terrible, not just the over performing ones. It certainly helped kill brawling.

The nerfing of everything else has lead to the 'need' to nerf lasers. The UAC jam and the spread nerfs on SRMs have pushed more people to bring lasers instead.




Don't forget that the community asked for an end to the constant jump sniping and instead of adding drift or shake to the recticle they made jump jets suck.

[Y E O N N E]

Jump-fighting is used at more than just long range. It's actually a core part of brawling. Increased shake kills jump-fighting at every range bracket of play, and some 'Mechs that make extensive use of it (e.g. MLX) get hurt harder than others.