32 replies to this topic

[Battlemaster56]

As the title said micro lasers need the GH limit increase up by 10 or make them completely separate from ER/ Pulse Medium and Smalls, this greatly gimps their potential especially in the future for other clan lights with mass energy hardpoints that can't usually take larger lasers, other than smalls.

The weapon system in itself have nearly the same limitations as mg's but without ammo and limited by heat, and I say either go with bumping micros GH up to 10 or separating them from small and medium GH will do wonders for the weapon.

[Khobai]

microlasers shouldnt even have a ghost heat limit

[Jay Leon Hart]

10-12 seems like a good GH limit for Micros, but keep them GH linked with Smalls & Mediums.

Then we avoid things like the stock PIR-2 being too ridiculous

[Khobai]

GH limit of 10-12 is only 24-28.8 damage

that is absurdly low. there is no reason to cap their damage

CERML/CMPL are ghost heated at 42 damage
CHML are ghost heated at 40 damage
CHLL are ghost heated at 36 damage

BUT MICROLASERS ARE SO OP THEY HAVE TO BE CAPPED AT 24-28.8 DAMAGE

they should have no ghost heat. although they should remain linked in the same ghost heat group as other small and medium lasers.

that way you can fire as many microlasers as you want but mixing them with other types of small or medium lasers would subject you to ghost heat penalties.

Edited by Khobai, 27 January 2018 - 10:17 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

12 ERmL is 28.8 damage for 3 tons & 20.4 heat @ 150m

6 IS ML is 30 damage for 6 tons & 20.4 heat @ 270m

Half the weight, half the range, near equal damage and the same heat

12 mPL is 32.4 damage for 6 tons & 20.4 heat @ 90m

6 IS SPL is 21 damage for 6 tons & 10.2 heat @ 110m

mPL need some help, since IS SPL are considered pretty bad anyway

[Khobai]

microlasers dont compete with IS lasers they compete with clan lasers

you need to be comparing them to CERML and CMPL

CERML/CMPL = ghost heat cap of 42 damage

if I take 6 CERML/CMPL I can do a 42 damage alpha strike at 400m/330m without ghost heat

so why would anyone ever use ER microlasers that are capped at 24-28.8 damage alphastrike at 150m?

even the piranha is better off not using them... and the pirahna is the only mech that could use enough of them to make it worthwhile, even if they were good enough to actually use.

Edited by Khobai, 27 January 2018 - 10:29 AM.

[FupDup]

Even without Spooky Heat the Micro Lasers just don't do enough damage. I'd rather focus on making them bite a little harder so that maybe you don't need 12+ hardpoints to make them marginally useful.

[Jay Leon Hart]

PVP game, balance is balance, whether it's faction wide or overall. You don't need to like it.

If ~30 damage is not enough damage for a GH group, then the IS Medium family needs a GH buff to 8.

As-is, a ~30 damage cap is plenty high enough, for weapons so light & so cool, with such a low cooldown & burn duration.

[Khobai]

Quote

PVP game, balance is balance, whether it's faction wide or overall. You don't need to like it.

If ~30 damage is not enough damage for a GH group, then the IS Medium family needs a GH buff to 8.

As-is, a ~30 damage cap is plenty high enough, for weapons so light & so cool, with such a low cooldown & burn duration.

the current clan lasers arnt subjected to a 30 damage alphastrike cap though. they have a 42 damage cap.

but I agree with you that the alphastrike damage caps should be consistent for ALL lasers

for example:

CERML = ghost heat limit of 6 (42 damage)
CMPL = ghost heat limit of 6 (42 damage)
ISERML = ghost heat limit of 8 (40 damage)
ISMPL = ghost heat limit of 7 (42 damage)
CERµL = no ghost heat limit (36 damage max)
CµPL = no ghost heat limit (40.5 damage max)

The ghost heat limit for all lasers should be set around 42 damage or as close to it as possible

linking medium and large lasers together for ghost heat is a possibility as well to curb the laser vomit alpha

Edited by Khobai, 27 January 2018 - 10:44 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

FupDup, on 27 January 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

Even without Spooky Heat the Micro Lasers just don't do enough damage. I'd rather focus on making them bite a little harder so that maybe you don't need 12+ hardpoints to make them marginally useful.

True but they make it up in their short cooldowns and burn time, at best they should be treated as energy mg's in a sense imo.

Khobai, on 27 January 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

microlasers dont compete with IS lasers they compete with clan lasers

you need to be comparing them to CERML and CMPL

CERML/CMPL = ghost heat cap of 42 damage

if I take 6 CERML/CMPL I can do a 42 damage alpha strike at 400m/330m without ghost heat

so why would anyone ever use ER microlasers that are capped at 24-28.8 damage alphastrike at 150m?

even the piranha is better off not using them... and the pirahna is the only mech that could use enough of them to make it worthwhile, even if they were good enough to actually use.

As I typed up they make up it's faults with short burn times and cooldowns, and comparing to them larger clan lasers won't do much as the work more akin to mg's get in close and let lose on some poor fella's back or legs when in range.

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 27 January 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

GH limit of 10-12 is only 24-28.8 damage

that is absurdly low. there is no reason to cap their damage

CERML/CMPL are ghost heated at 42 damage
CHML are ghost heated at 40 damage
CHLL are ghost heated at 36 damage

BUT MICROLASERS ARE SO OP THEY HAVE TO BE CAPPED AT 24-28.8 DAMAGE

Consider the DPS though. 6xCERML has DPS of 7.32. 10xERMicros have DPS of 8. I do not think more than 10 GH limit is needed for micro lasers.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 January 2018 - 10:42 AM.

[FupDup]

Battlemaster56, on 27 January 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

True but they make it up in their short cooldowns and burn time, at best they should be treated as energy mg's in a sense imo.

I think the Micro Pulse should be closer to the laser MG than the ER Micro. If both are laser MG then it becomes harder to make both relevant without one stealing the other's lunch.

[Khobai]

Quote

Consider the DPS though. 6xCERML has DPS of 7.32. 10xERMicros have DPS of 8. I do not think more than 10 GH limit is needed for micro lasers.

but look at the range difference

microlasers should do considerable more dps if you have to get closer

otherwise what incentive is there to use them? added risk means added reward.

there is no reason to ghost heat limit them

Quote

I think the Micro Pulse should be closer to the laser MG than the ER Micro. If both are laser MG then it becomes harder to make both relevant without one stealing the other's lunch.

the problem is the er micro cant do more damage than an er small. so theres not a lot of wiggle room there.

they need to redo all micro and small lasers on the clan side. theyre all sorts of screwed up.

Edited by Khobai, 27 January 2018 - 10:50 AM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 27 January 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

but look at the range difference

microlasers should obviously hit harder if you have to get closer

otherwise what incentive is there to use them? added risk means added reward

And the crapton of hardpoints required constricting the build to only a tiny number of mechs, while almost anything can do 6 ERML.

Edited by FupDup, 27 January 2018 - 10:48 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

FupDup, on 27 January 2018 - 10:41 AM, said:

I think the Micro Pulse should be closer to the laser MG than the ER Micro. If both are laser MG then it becomes harder to make both relevant without one stealing the other's lunch.

I mean mER is the more superior version compare to the mPulse despite the pulse better(somewhat) damage and dps, the thing holding mPulse is GH limit and it's prebuff HMG range. And it right now hard to balance one another without seriously hurting the other, I suggest mER's more of lmg's in flavor favoring range over damage and slightly lower dps, and the pulse the opposite try to make a clear line of which one they should act upon without truly jumping on each other's lawn.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Khobai, on 27 January 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

CERML = ghost heat limit of 6 (42 damage)
CMPL = ghost heat limit of 6 (42 damage)
ISERML = ghost heat limit of 8 (40 damage)
ISMPL = ghost heat limit of 7 (42 damage)
CERµL = no ghost heat limit (36 damage max)
CµPL = no ghost heat limit (40.5 damage max)

linking medium and large lasers together for ghost heat is a possibility as well to curb the laser vomit alpha

To expand on those;

CERSL = ghost heat limit of 8 (40 damage)
CSPL = ghost heat limit of 10 (40 damage)
HSL = ghost heat limit of 6 (39 damage)
IS(ER)SL = ghost heat limit of 13 (42.25 damage)
ISSPL = ghost heat limit of 12 (42 damage)
HML = ghost heat limit of 4 (40 damage)
CERLL = ghost heat limit of 4 (44 damage)
CLPL = ghost heat limit of 3 (36 damage)
HLL = ghost heat limit of 2 (36 damage)
IS(ER)LL = ghost heat limit of 5 (45 damage)
ISLPL = ghost heat limit of 4 (40 damage)

Then we could probably link all laser classes together. Maybe.

[Khobai]

Quote

I mean mER is the more superior version compare to the mPulse despite the pulse better(somewhat) damage and dps, the thing holding mPulse is GH limit and it's prebuff HMG range

well there should be no ghost heat limit on micros

the micro er laser should probably do more damage with a longer cooldown (say 3 damage instead of 2.4 with a longer cooldown of 3.0+0.75). that would make it a little more useful without having to boat it in massive quantities.

and the micro pulse needs its range bumped up slightly (120m?)

Jay Leon Hart, on 27 January 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Then we could probably link all laser classes together. Maybe.

if you allowed 4 CERLLs youd have to link all laser classes then

but it would allow CERLLs to be a primary weapon

Edited by Khobai, 27 January 2018 - 11:22 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

i support,

[Revis Volek]

uLasers are trash, they need dmg, range and No GH limit to even be considered.


The Dev's of this game have no idea how to play and dont understand that FACE HUGGING a mech for dmg is a great way to cut off shots for the rest of the team and get TK'd.


They show us time and time again they have no clue what they are doing or how the game is played.

[Battlemaster56]

Revis Volek, on 27 January 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

uLasers are trash, they need dmg, range and No GH limit to even be considered.


The Dev's of this game have no idea how to play and dont understand that FACE HUGGING a mech for dmg is a great way to cut off shots for the rest of the team and get TK'd.


They show us time and time again they have no clue what they are doing or how the game is played.

mLasers don't need range aside from mPulse but that's debatable, damage they make up with lower burn times and cooldowns. Also it's best not make the stock PIR 2 broken just bump up the gh to 10 and that be great start.

Also face hugging is a player problem not a balance problem, if some player decide to hug the enemy that said player knows the risk of doing that, plus mechs like the pirahana and locust doest really have that problem since it's a effective way on taking on large targets without fighting in their line of fire.