124 replies to this topic

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

BigScwerl, on 31 January 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

Come by and play with us some evening. I think you'd see then.

The alternative is that "the rest of the community" all 15 or 20 of you guys, that have been rushed on a few times by our unit, must be correct, and you know our unit from those few matches better than we know ourselves.

I was on Strana with you guys for a long long time. I respect you guys as players, but your group as a whole plays in a manner that is, well, rather not fun for many people. Gen rushing and actively trying to avoid contact with the enemy until they stumble into you in 1s and 2s, or holding back for 10-15 mins of a fight to try to steal the kill lead at the very end, while legitimate tactics, when it is done every single match, it becomes very boring and stale for the people who just want to shoot mechs. Not all may share that sentiment. But for me, I stopped playing with you guys and tried to avoid dropping with you, not because of your skill or personalities, but because It felt like I was just wasting my time dropping with you guys when I wanted to let off some steam from the RL day and just shoot big stompy robbits.

Edited by Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain, 31 January 2018 - 04:00 PM.

[0regon]

Wolfy36, on 31 January 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

like a hobo on a ham sandwich. /s

That's a good one Wolfy. I'm going to have to use that one myself someday, hope you don't mind.

[McGoat]

Oh FFS - cliffs.
Bacon says fix some scoring method, while something something PVE
Community laffs, because PVE + BACON = REALITY
Bacon tires to defend
Laffs had
SPIDERMAN
Hugs?
Bacon defends
Laffs

You are known for a particular play style, no different than everyone assuming KCOM brawl rush.

Own it or change it.

Edited by McGoat, 31 January 2018 - 04:22 PM.

[Leone]

tker 669, on 31 January 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

Not sure how many guys Kwea has at the moment or Kcom or Evil. BCMC alone is 25 guys that know you for this. CBR, MAZR, GNOX, are you saying if I go ask these guys, they'd back your claims?

Get honest. Alone I could come up with over a hundred people that know you for this.

You can squirm all you like, but you guys are absolutely infamous for this tactic so much so, that everyone I know, defines your unit by it.

Yo, Leone of Kell's Commandos here, just had to chime in on this. Last time I grouped up with those gents the other night, the only call to push objectives was when two lights dropped against us first wave in an assault match an the team couldn't push out without leaving the base to be capped. The call was then to just push through the opfor and outcap em on the enemies base anyway. Once the lights were taken care of by those fortunate enough to die early in the push, [07] an co continued to press the fight rather'n go for capping the base. The opfor offered solid and continued resistance, and the team decided to honour that by fightin' to the last.

Yeah I'll back their claim. They might not have a play style I'm used to, but they've picked me up for games from time to time and I can vouch that they play to win. Whilst objectives aren't their primary method, they don't discount 'em as an options. These gents fight, and they'll use whatever they have if need be. I don't have an issue with that.

Always a pleasure to drop with or against 'em.

<o.

~Leone. Of Kell's Commandos.

Edited by Leone, 31 January 2018 - 04:33 PM.

[BigScwerl]

Tker, I don't know what else to tell you. You're probably a nice guy, but you're complaining a lot. All that I am saying is that our unit does not only play the objective. But I'm done trying to speak reason because you apparently know my unit better than me, and you have hundreds of friends who have lost to us.

You guys think its not fun playing against a team that is going for objectives? How do you think 2 and 4 man groups with pugs feel when they drop against BCMC/Evil a few times a night? And then have to the team that is crushing you talk a pile of sh!t while they are beating you down?

This thread is a lot like the pug posts on the brown sea about how sick and tired they are of dropping all night against pre-mades.

You might even argue that in some cases obj. rushing is merciful, as opposed to "other" unit tactics involving farming every last component for damage, dragging out the match as long as possible to pad your KMDD stats. I'd rather be known for rushing the objectives when its necessary and being a good sport than taking the piss out of everyone I play that isn't dropping a 12 man of expert players.

Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain, on 31 January 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

I was on Strana with you guys for a long long time.

Word Jaybles, likewise. That said, the last time you did it was a while ago when we had a more limited skill base, a very small unit and not a lot of options. Things have been evolving, although, I think we will still play the objective when it is in our best interests,

Edited by BigScwerl, 31 January 2018 - 04:44 PM.

[0regon]

Look guys, as a whole you guys are the coolest, most loyal, and competitive community of players I've ever had the pleasure of enjoying a game with. And I've hung out on teamspeak with and / or run with enough of you to say that confidently. You can even see the camaraderie in this thread. Despite months of pent up frustrations, most of you have still been amiable, if not matter of fact. It must be because you guys are a more mature group of grown-up men and women than I've experienced with groups from other games. I expected you guys to act a lot more immature than you actually did here. And I even tried to stir you guys up a little just to see what I was up against. You guys have legitimate gripes that were mostly welll voiced here. Except for the Spiderman memes. Those were just plain-old fashioned pure awesomeness! They should have been liked way more than they were. That said, the boss has agreed to allow some flexibility in our strategies. We're going to better honor the spirit of the community and diversify our portfolio. That's not to say that if we run into a premade of BCMC and EVIL guys that we're going to let you beat us around like we're your personal punching bags. Fk that. If you're going to stack your team like that then you're ***** everyone else playing faction warfare and you can expect to get fked yourselves. But, if you're going to have the kind of honor that just call me ASH has, and let a few new guys, or less experienced guys run with your group, then fk ya, we'll fight it out with you guys. I think I can speak for all of us and say we'd be proud too. Like ASH, we always try to have a few new guys in our group that we're either breaking in to faction, or helping improve. That's the spirit FW needs. And I'm down for that. I want to see FW grow, and see the FW community grow. It's not going to do that with leet 12 man's running around bashing peoples heads in. And really, that's cool too. Because Bacon has something for them. We can make their lives as miserable as they make everybody elses. But I love the idea of having some real slug fests with the real hero's here. Playing against an honorable team that says "gg" at the end, win or lose, is what I live for. See you on teh battlefield

Edited by 0regon, 31 January 2018 - 07:20 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

BigScwerl, on 31 January 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

Say what you want, I'm sorry you get in the way once in a while when we are trying to get tags on a planet, but as someone that has been a part of this Unit since it was 6 or 7 members, I think I would know. If we base rushed EVERY time, I would not find it fun or appealing to play with this unit. Incursion matches may be the one exception, but the mode is so broken, as Marquis put it, Its global thermonuclear war play concept.

So change EVERY to the vast majority???

Don't hide behind the excuse of "planet tagging". If you drop and win ~6 games as a 10-12 man you've guaranteed you will tag a planet -IF- the bar is there. You can generally gauge this ~1.5hrs before a cycle ends if it's possible to tag a planet of not.

Look at the games won vs KDR of most of the unit players. 4.0-5.0 win rate yet less than 1.0 KDR. That is literally a flashing red light of consistently (ie, vast majority) rushing / throwing mechs @ objectives without shooting at opponents.

Look at all the known gen-rusher groups, the stats are similar. The groups (of lower ability) that actually fight have lesser WLR in most instances but at least they have a similar KDR or better - It means they are at least trying to shoot at stuff.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 31 January 2018 - 06:48 PM.

[Sjorpha]

A player with a competitive mindset really shouldn't value different ways of winning differently, a win is a win. When a weaker team, in terms of fighting skills, faces a stronger team going for the objective is the correct call from a competitive perspective, I really don't understand all the salt about it.

If you're in the stronger team stopping the genrush should be a greater challenge than just grinding out kills against inferior opponents, so from a competitive standpoint the genrush in those cases makes the game closer and therefore more interesting.

What I think this might be at least partially about is that elite units with a skill requirement to join and who reliably wins almost every fight in terms of kills and damage, they have a vested interest in creating a norm where objective wins are considered shameful and somehow inferior, because if they can make it a norm to always fight they will up their win percentage even more and be better set up for farming rewards as well. So the skill shaming rhetoric against people who objective rush is really a way to try and set yourself up for easier wins.

I'm in one of those fairly elite units, and I know I'm NOT representing how most of my unit thinks here, but IMO what we should really do is think more competitively and "git gud" at stopping objective rushes instead of whining like scrubs about them.

If going for objectives is an overpowered move in certain modes then that is a design issue and should be discussed as such.

Edited by Sjorpha, 31 January 2018 - 07:00 PM.

[0regon]

justcallme A S H, on 31 January 2018 - 06:45 PM, said:

So change EVERY to the vast majority???

Don't hide behind the excuse of "planet tagging". If you drop and win ~6 games as a 10-12 man you've guaranteed you will tag a planet -IF- the bar is there. You can generally gauge this ~1.5hrs before a cycle ends if it's possible to tag a planet of not.

Look at the games won vs KDR of most of the unit players. 4.0-5.0 win rate yet less than 1.0 KDR. That is literally a flashing red light of consistently (ie, vast majority) rushing / throwing mechs @ objectives without shooting at opponents.

Look at all the known gen-rusher groups, the stats are similar. The groups (of lower ability) that actually fight have lesser WLR in most instances but at least they have a similar KDR or better - It means they are at least trying to shoot at stuff.

ASH, are you also taking into account all the scouting matches they have played? Because I know that most of the Bacon guys do a lot of scouting, which, unfortunately, counts towards the FW leaderboard. I've actually been doing a lot of scouting since joining Bacon. I had not previously, to preserve my KMDD ratio. I'm lucky to get two KMDD's per scouting match, and average around 1. When checking someones stat's I'll actually check to see how many intel they've collected and 'try' to adjust for that in the amount of games played.

[0regon]

Sjorpha, as previously mention throughout this thread, rushing objectives disrupts the leaderboard statistics by denying players kills and KMDD's. This game is a First Person Shooter. Because of that, you can pretty easily deduce that those statistics are going to be pretty important to the vast majority of the community that plays this game. It probably can't be explained any better than that. 07

[justcallme A S H]

I was not talking about KMDD if you read my post.

[0regon]

my bad

[Q]

I'll have to admit I'm surprised this thread didn't derail by the third page. I think we can all applaud ourselves at trying to remain constructive here.

I joined Bacon somewhere in August. I liked the team first mentality and a win is a win for me and I tend to agree a lot with what Sjorpha said. I understand the other side of the argument and I can understand how it would be frustrating if my view of the game was confined to pure combat. Maybe if I'd of been around as long as most of you I might even agree.

Since joining I have been around to see *two* nights where we had more than 6 pilots with 07 tags and most nights we have maybe 4 of us. Generally we're filled with friends of friends and pugs. Despite the ease Ash seems to think you can tag a planet we honestly don't have that many of us around consistently to do so. Outside of the big units I'm going to say that's probably true for most of us in FW.

My FW stats are not fantastic. I'll pit some of that blame on our gen rushing and a bit on trying to learn the meta as fast as f***. But I do think they are representative of how much we do not actually gen rush since I joined the unit.

If we really want a euphoric community moment let's agree to not:
* gen rush first wave
* spawn camp pugs/poorly performing teams (see how PC I was there?)
* draw out obj victory modes in a 48-10 stomp

Pipe dream... I know. Somebody hit me with a Spiderman meme!

[r4zen]

ok we can all hug it out or whatever but dont normalize spidey please

he's all we have left

you can have our gens but DONT TAKE AWAY SPIDEY

[Yondu Udonta]

Sjorpha, on 31 January 2018 - 06:57 PM, said:

A player with a competitive mindset really shouldn't value different ways of winning differently, a win is a win. When a weaker team, in terms of fighting skills, faces a stronger team going for the objective is the correct call from a competitive perspective, I really don't understand all the salt about it.

If you're in the stronger team stopping the genrush should be a greater challenge than just grinding out kills against inferior opponents, so from a competitive standpoint the genrush in those cases makes the game closer and therefore more interesting.

What I think this might be at least partially about is that elite units with a skill requirement to join and who reliably wins almost every fight in terms of kills and damage, they have a vested interest in creating a norm where objective wins are considered shameful and somehow inferior, because if they can make it a norm to always fight they will up their win percentage even more and be better set up for farming rewards as well. So the skill shaming rhetoric against people who objective rush is really a way to try and set yourself up for easier wins.

I'm in one of those fairly elite units, and I know I'm NOT representing how most of my unit thinks here, but IMO what we should really do is think more competitively and "git gud" at stopping objective rushes instead of whining like scrubs about them.

If going for objectives is an overpowered move in certain modes then that is a design issue and should be discussed as such.

The norm that objective wins are shameful and inferior already exists. I'm pretty sure that most of the FP community are fine with the idea of the weaker team going for an objective win since the weaker team is highly unlikely to win on kills but when a unit, who has more coordination than a bunch of puggers does a light/ASN/LBK rush for an objective win against pugs, it becomes really distasteful. Especially at times at midnight PST when the majority of the community is offline. I am in the Oceanic region so I can say that there is an especially long wait time during this time period for a game. Having a game end faster than the time you waited for it pisses people off and in the end there wouldn't be anybody playing during this time period. I would name shame these units but considering that it is the forums I will keep it civil.

[MischiefSC]

r4zen, on 31 January 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

ok we can all hug it out or whatever but dont normalize spidey please

he's all we have left

you can have our gens but DONT TAKE AWAY SPIDEY

[Johnathan Tanner]

Yondu the Ravager, on 31 January 2018 - 09:15 PM, said:

keep it civil.

This is the FP section, Its sword,Pitchfork and spidey time 24/7 in here.

[Yondu Udonta]

Johnathan Tanner, on 31 January 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

This is the FP section, Its sword,Pitchfork and spidey time 24/7 in here.

Had 3 Incursion matches in a row one day during midnight PST and was base rushed all 3 times. Twice by CGBI, once by MaZr. Seriously, premade base rushing against pugs, 1v1 me I'll knock all of your teeth out.

[Johnathan Tanner]

Yondu the Ravager, on 31 January 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

I'll knock all of your teeth out.

Now this is FP.

[ANOM O MECH]

BigScwerl, on 31 January 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

Tker, I don't know what else to tell you. You're probably a nice guy, but you're complaining a lot. All that I am saying is that our unit does not only play the objective. But I'm done trying to speak reason because you apparently know my unit better than me, and you have hundreds of friends who have lost to us.

You guys think its not fun playing against a team that is going for objectives? How do you think 2 and 4 man groups with pugs feel when they drop against BCMC/Evil a few times a night? And then have to the team that is crushing you talk a pile of sh!t while they are beating you down?

This thread is a lot like the pug posts on the brown sea about how sick and tired they are of dropping all night against pre-mades.

You might even argue that in some cases obj. rushing is merciful, as opposed to "other" unit tactics involving farming every last component for damage, dragging out the match as long as possible to pad your KMDD stats. I'd rather be known for rushing the objectives when its necessary and being a good sport than taking the piss out of everyone I play that isn't dropping a 12 man of expert players.

Complaining? There is a dialogue and I have voiced my opinion here. There is only one complaint and you guys have had a chance you state your side. So would appreciate the same respect.

I respect Leonne, and accept what he had to say on the matter.

You bringing up how fun it is to go against my unit or Evil has been addressed. You repeating the same old tired argument is not doing anything to move the conversation along constructively. The answer I will repeat is BCMC got good by facing Evil. So I can accept that your position is, not everyone will have it in them to get back up every time and try again. My position won't change here, and it is all about dusting yourself off and doing it again.

As well this continued and asinine, repeatedly bringing up padding stats has to stop. At least when you are talking to me. You do not know peoples motivations and you appear to be bringing this up repeatedly as some sort of justification. Correct me if wrong, but how and what you are saying comes across to me as; it is ok to crush objectives quickly against you because you are just a stat hungry sob. That both makes me the bad guy in your mind, and assumes why I am playing. Even if I was really super into getting as high a kdr as possible, it would be no better or worse than someone concerned with wlr. Different sides of the same coin, the killing everything vs. win at all costs.

Look we have started a dialogue and I am grateful you extended an invitation for me to play with you guys. Part of what is important to me is to at least find some understanding and because honestly I don't like the dialogue (from both sides here not just yours) that happens when our two units meet. There's a lot of animosity here, clearly from both sides. I also have to say, that having had the pleasure to hang out with Feno lately, he as well has a lot to with it. He speaks very highly of you guys and has tried to share as best he could, his view on the matter.

So hopefully we can leave it at that. You not only have had someone step up and back you, you are willing to step up and show me.