44 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

^ yep, that was where the problem was always going to be and hence the heat change was just dumb and didn't affect what it was supposed to (The META). If anything, it made it stronger again.

[naterist]

If i recall corectly, clan won the phase last night. The only mechs that can consistently beat IS is the dual hgauss anni and dual gauss warhammer. Outside of those and a handful of other rare mechs, IS cant compete with clan. Even with a bunch of good IS teams running, clan still cleaned house.

[ANOM O MECH]

Mole, on 04 February 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

Hey guys. I just decided to give FP a whirl again tonight. Honestly, the reason I had stopped playing FP was because I just didn't find it fun the way I could run with any random PUG as a clanner and win but if I wanted to do anything other than get my teeth repeatedly stomped in all night while playing IS I needed to find a coordinated group. It just wasn't fun. This is not an argument about clan tech being OP or whatever, but you cannot deny that there was blatant Clan dominance in FP. But tonight has been great. I flipped over to the FP tab and started checking out the war log and it was looking like a pretty even split between IS and Clan victories. I kind of got excited about that and signed a merc contract with House Marik, threw together a drop deck, and hit play. Within minutes I had found a match, which is also unusual for FP. First match I lost, but it was a close one, so I had fun. I queued up again and yet again almost instantly found a drop. This time, we won. It's been going like this all night. Tonight, it does not feel like one side has a clear advantage over the other. Is this normal for FP now? Or did I just get lucky tonight?

TL;DR: I have been winning a good amount of FP matches by PUGing on an IS contract tonight. This is unusual from what I remember. Did I get lucky or has clan dominance in FP ceased?

Has a lot to do with population.

I know, I know, you hear it all of the time.

What the IS does have though is weight and armor. The one thing the skill maze did was help compound armor advantage by being able to max out armor or structure quirks. So they are able to survive and get into ranges that are better for IS.

Better teams will take advantage of this. In my experience however, pugging as a Clanner is still easier to beat IS pugs because of how much damage you are able to put out in Clan mechs.

So right now the IS is enjoying some success, and most of that can be attributed to MS and KCom being IS right now.

Recently lost a really close match against KCom 47-41.

What stood out for me was our losing side had six players with over 2000 damage, to their four. I added the damage from both sides and BCMC's total was 19,784 to KCom's 18,276 (if interested in the screen shot I will email it to you if you send an address via pm, can't get imagur to work on my computer which I think is do to a no script add on I have in Firefox)

1500 hundred less damage. That is a bunch considering we are also talking about a six kill difference as well.

That match was an excellent example of a skilled team, winning against a team puking out an enormous amount of damage. I haven't had the chance to ask them, but I am guessing they found the match very tough, and I think I admire their skill even more so after pulling off that win.

Basically I think if you asked the skilled and more experienced players in CW right now, they would still tell you that Clan, still has the advantage and is easier to win with.

[UnKnownPlayer]

tker 669, on 05 February 2018 - 01:58 PM, said:

*numbers*

It also depends on what weapons etc are being used and the focus / aim of the pilots.

We jokingly brought 2 x dual heavy gauss mechs recently and won 48-20 or better but only 4 members or less got above 1500 damage because the gauss just go through the same panel. Then again we have also brought splat/dakka and lost doing more damage than the enemy as well.

Generally I still feel like the clans have an advantage (the speed synergy is always helpful in FP) but it isnt quite as pronounced as it used to be.

Edited by UnKnownPlayer, 05 February 2018 - 02:55 PM.

[Mole]

tker 669, on 05 February 2018 - 01:58 PM, said:

Basically I think if you asked the skilled and more experienced players in CW right now, they would still tell you that Clan, still has the advantage and is easier to win with.

Yes, but the experiences have been having tell me that the advantage, while still present, is no longer so steep that if I try to PUG as IS I'm just signing up for an entire night of getting repeatedly curbstomped.

[justcallme A S H]

naterist, on 05 February 2018 - 01:20 PM, said:

If i recall corectly, clan won the phase last night. The only mechs that can consistently beat IS is the dual hgauss anni and dual gauss warhammer. Outside of those and a handful of other rare mechs, IS cant compete with clan. Even with a bunch of good IS teams running, clan still cleaned house.

GHP-5H / WHM-6D can compete and can win trades against Clan Laser vom trading of HBR/EBJ, if done correctly.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 05 February 2018 - 05:42 PM.

[Kwea]

El Bandito, on 04 February 2018 - 09:29 PM, said:

Clans still have the edge. My scores on the Clan side (in terms of WLR+KDR+KMDD) are always better than IS side. Hell, PGI should give both sides equal tonnage and get even clearer picture.

part of that is with quirks there is more meat on the bone when you are shooting IS mechs.

[Geewiz 27]

I would like to see clan Tonnage increased. My unit drops invasion regularly and we struggle against all the major units, which is understandable. But since Decemberish we are even struggling against Pug IS in faction. I think the pendulum has swung too far. You are all citing the fact that the best units and pilots will say Clan still has advantage. Only problem is that is floored thinking because we are not all top level pilots. I have recently started a second account to run IS and have found it to be a lot more enjoyable because there's lots of MECH/load out options out there now that are just as punishing as clan but also have a massive advantage on damage receiving potential. And this opinion is not based on new account going up against potatoes but based on a better average result in group queue with my unit mates.

[justcallme A S H]

If as a unit you are losing to PUGs then 25T won't fix that.

[Yondu Udonta]

justcallme A S H, on 05 February 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

GHP-5H / WHM-6D can compete and can win trades against Clan Laser vom trading of HBR/EBJ, if done correctly.

Am very curious to find out more on this. I generally find myself on the losing end when fighting against HLL-ERML/LPL-ERML vomit since IS LL-ERML does only 57 damage and LPL-ERML does 60 damage.

Edited by Yondu the Ravager, 05 February 2018 - 10:06 PM.

[Fake News]

eh?
Superior in every way.

[El Bandito]

Kwea, on 05 February 2018 - 08:23 PM, said:

part of that is with quirks there is more meat on the bone when you are shooting IS mechs.

Notice I did not include damage in there.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

Yondu the Ravager, on 05 February 2018 - 10:05 PM, said:

Am very curious to find out more on this. I generally find myself on the losing end when fighting against HLL-ERML/LPL-ERML vomit since IS LL-ERML does only 57 damage and LPL-ERML does 60 damage.

You can put your 57 damage as IS on target in under 1 second and twist/fade back into cover. The 2HLL/4ERML 64 damage hellbringer takes 1.5 seconds to full burn (not counting skill tree duration quirks for either side.) If you are losing trades, then you either are outside IS optimal range, or you are exposing your mech for longer than you should, or you are tunnel visioning and think you are trading 1 v 1 but really are taking return fire from more than 1 opponent. If you are facing a team that is set up to trade and you are solo dropping or are set up to trade and your team isn't then you will find it very difficult to trade because you'll always be outnumbered.

[justcallme A S H]

Yondu the Ravager, on 05 February 2018 - 10:05 PM, said:

Am very curious to find out more on this. I generally find myself on the losing end when fighting against HLL-ERML/LPL-ERML vomit since IS LL-ERML does only 57 damage and LPL-ERML does 60 damage.

Out range with IS ERML/3LL. Use a TC2 and use clan longer burn times to spread damage vs IS shorter duration.

It's not as uneven as everyone makes out IMO, at least in that mid-range laser vom trading. Just gotta watch HBR with HLL, but with a high burn time you can do well.

[GweNTLeR]

Well, clams and is are pretty balanced, except for some weapons and mechs(dual HG are OP, clam pulses are ****). I recently switched from being IS loyalist to merc and while my K/D is similar, I was dealing way more damage as spheroid (like 2.5k vs 2k, probably linked to XL stuff, I guess).

[Sjorpha]

Clan still has the overall edge given equally skilled teams, despite the IS tonnage advantage. So clan tech/mechs is still at least 10-20% better per ton than IS tech/mechs.

The tonnage difference does make matches between comparable units fairly close though, if the IS team can manage to pin down the clan team and force a relatively static and exposed DPS fight then they can win that race with their armour quirks and tonnage grind, so IS kind of favors rushes, fire line and push tactics to achieve this.

Conversely if the clan team can trade from cover to cover in their preferred ranges and and keep routes of movement open they have the definite advantage. They also have the advantage in cover poke static trading in most cases.

You can claim it's fairly close if you want, but the only reason the clan edge isn't huge is the tonnage difference. With equal tonnages it wouldn't be anywhere near a close balance.

The problem is that the tech should be balanced so that the tonnage advantage isn't needed, and that kind of real tech balance is extremely far away sadly.

[GweNTLeR]

When you see another nerf

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

So back at it on IS this week, did a scouting match with one buddy online. We're both in Bushwackers running meta with 2 pugs. One guy with an LRM Griffin and the other guy in a trial kintaro which he then swapped to a trial phawk then DCed as soon as the match started.

At least when we're on Clans, we get a random Jenner IIC trial new player and some guy in a Nova running slightly off meta.

[Clownwarlord]

All will change when metanator is released ... I mean blood asp.

[Kwea]

How many cycles has IS won recently? NONE.

That's right NONE, even with a lot of good units going IS, and with tech being much closer to balanced these days, even with all those quirks. NONE.

I love iS< and they are better than they were before LFE, but they aren't the same. Clan is still more powerful if you use it right, and clan mpl as still amazing.