132 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

If getting headshots was easy and "common", heavy PPCs paired with just about any source of 3+ damage would probably be a bigger culprit than dual heavy gauss

dual heavy gauss lets you oneshot mechs for essentially no heat though, that really shouldnt be allowed. especially if headshotting is as commonplace as some people are claiming.

heavy gauss should at least be ghost heat limited at 1 to force you to spike your heat when going for headshots.

either that or make heavy gauss do splash damage. since IS players think the splash damage is so amazing on the CERPPC they shouldnt mind having some amazing splash damage on their heavy gauss.

if the headshotting potential is eliminated, it would allow the heavy gauss to have its optimum range increased to 570m as well. which would make it feel more like a gauss weapon. 220m is pathetic for heavy gauss. the reticle shake could be removed too.

Edited by Khobai, 06 February 2018 - 07:35 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Khobai, on 06 February 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

so give gauss heat

gauss has always been broken as hell.

because it violates one of the fundamental principles of the game that weapons generate heat when you fire them.

im not saying it has to generate a lot of heat, but it should certainly generate more than 1 heat. At least 5-6 heat probably.

What really is wrong with Gauss is that heat is generally used to restrain rate of fire.

Gauss, since they don't HAVE heat should have a distinctly horrible ROF as a result. Instead, they're not much slower than AC/20's (which have plenty of heat) or CERPPC/CHLL (which have lots and lots of heat). A weapon that gets low heat and high damage should be glacial in it's firing rate. Seven, eight seconds.

Oh, have I mentioned lately that all Gauss have a minimum range that PGI utterly ignores?

Edited by Brain Cancer, 06 February 2018 - 09:25 PM.

[The Lighthouse]

Brain Cancer, on 06 February 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

What really is wrong with Gauss is that heat is generally used to restrain rate of fire.

Gauss, since they don't HAVE heat should have a distinctly horrible ROF as a result. Instead, they're not much slower than AC/20's (which have plenty of heat) or CERPPC/CHLL (which have lots and lots of heat). A weapon that gets low heat and high damage should be glacial in it's firing rate. Seven, eight seconds.

Oh, have I mentioned lately that all Gauss have a minimum range that PGI utterly ignores?

Yes, Gauss should have horrible ROF while AC and UAC20 do not, just like literally all previous Mechwarrior games wisely did for more than a decade. Tweak the cooldown of Gauss rifle to 8 seconds or more would solve this problem a long time ago. No need for ridiculous charging mechanics, min range or any other laughable attempt.

[Gas Guzzler]

If they added ghost heat or a heat spike or a HGauss limit, the weapon would cease to be relevant. Just sayin.

[Khobai]

Quote

If they added ghost heat or a heat spike or a HGauss limit, the weapon would cease to be relevant. Just sayin.

Not if they buffed HGR in the proper way

you shouldnt have to take two of a heavy weapon for it to be relevant

thats poor weapon balance

you should just be able to take one HGR and have it be good

the weapon needs to be rebalanced so it works better as a singleton weapon.

and one shot kills shouldnt be the primary motivation for using dual HGR. the ability of dual HGR to one shot kill mechs needs to be reevaluated, because one shot kills are not something that should exist in MWO.

one shot kills undermine the game. you should never die instantly just because someone got a lucky headshot. it adds nothing positive or beneficial to the game.

even mechwarrior 4 had the common sense not to allow instant headshot kills. in MW4 the most you could reduce the head down to in one shot was 1 health. You had to hit the head a second time to destroy it. so at the very least, MWO headshots should get changed to work like that.

Edited by Khobai, 06 February 2018 - 10:26 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 06 February 2018 - 10:10 PM, said:

Not if you buff HGR

you shouldnt have to take two of a heavy weapon for it to be relevant

thats poor weapon balance

you should be able to just take one HGR and have it be good

the weapon needs to be rebalanced better as a singleton weapon

and the ability of dual HGR to one shot kill mechs needs to be reevaluated, because one shot kills are not really something that should exist in MWO.

At the same time, devastating levels of burst DPS are what make slow mechs like the Dire viable, so....

Also, I would say that last bit is an opinion.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 06 February 2018 - 10:16 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

At the same time, devastating levels of burst DPS are what make slow mechs like the Dire viable, so....

the direwolf isnt viable though. specifically because it is slow.

everyone has been trying to tell you that. youre the only one defending it.

the clan battlemech assaults like the madcat mk2 have made the direwolf completely irrelevant

because they can use bigger engines, endo and ferro, and still max out at the ghost heat limit for firepower. they also have better hitboxes and geometry.

the direwolf has been found seriously wanting for armor/structure quirks. if it gets those maybe it will be viable again.

Edited by Khobai, 06 February 2018 - 10:37 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

And a Dual HGauss Anni/Sleip/Mauler all run how much faster than a DWF again?

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 06 February 2018 - 10:31 PM, said:

the direwolf isnt viable though. specifically because it is slow.

everyone has been trying to tell you that. youre the only one defending it.

the clan battlemech assaults have made the direwolf completely irrelevant

People who have no idea what they are talking about say that sure, but that doesn't make them right. You think that because a couple people on the forums can't figure out how to play the Dire that suddenly I should just listen to them? Why? What makes their opinion more valid than mine? Certainly not their in-game stats.

The Dire IS viable now, because it can produce a 94 damage alpha at range and be heat efficient enough, but if you get what you want and murder large, one-shot kill capable alphas, then it will be garbage.

[naterist]

They do about dual clan gauss riffle levels of damage at about the gauses optimal range. Stay away and range it. Anything carrying it is slow as hell. If your in a tiny mech and try and attack its front at 100meters then you need to work on positioning.

[Khobai]

Quote

And a Dual HGauss Anni/Sleip/Mauler all run how much faster than a DWF again?

well the direwolf cant even use HGR

the direwolf is irrelevant to the discussion about HGR


also its not the IS assaults that make the direwolf bad. its the clan battlemech assaults that make the direwolf bad.

the direwolf is better than a lot of IS assaults simply because clantech is still better than IS tech. PGI hasnt quite nailed down clan vs IS balance yet. so the direwolf is still lingering around mediocre or slightly above mediocre.

but clan battlemech assaults like the madcat mk2 are much better than the direwolf.

Quote

Why? What makes their opinion more valid than mine?

youre entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else.

but the direwolfs got nothing to do with HGR.

Edited by Khobai, 06 February 2018 - 11:16 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 06 February 2018 - 11:08 PM, said:

well the direwolf cant even use HGR

the direwolf is irrelevant to the discussion about HGR

And yet you brought it into the discussion 30mins earlier.

Khobai, on 06 February 2018 - 10:31 PM, said:

The direwolf isnt viable though. specifically because it is slow.

Seriously dude you need to just stop making up fanciful rubbish post after post... After post.

You can't even keep up with your own tales anymore.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 07 February 2018 - 03:16 AM.

[ROSS-128]

Khobai, on 06 February 2018 - 07:29 PM, said:

dual heavy gauss lets you oneshot mechs for essentially no heat though, that really shouldnt be allowed. especially if headshotting is as commonplace as some people are claiming.

heavy gauss should at least be ghost heat limited at 1 to force you to spike your heat when going for headshots.

either that or make heavy gauss do splash damage. since IS players think the splash damage is so amazing on the CERPPC they shouldnt mind having some amazing splash damage on their heavy gauss.

if the headshotting potential is eliminated, it would allow the heavy gauss to have its optimum range increased to 570m as well. which would make it feel more like a gauss weapon. 220m is pathetic for heavy gauss. the reticle shake could be removed too.

Ah, I see you've managed to miss the point. Quite impressive in this case.

Headshots are not common. Full stop.

If headshots were common, we'd be seeing this forum flooded with threads about builds that use dual HPPCs and another weapon to nudge them over 33 damage, probably an AC/5 since they have similar enough velocities. Or paired with lasers, with the idea being that the HPPCs expose the head and then they wave lasers in that general area until they get that last 3 damage.

We're not seeing that. Because it's not happening. Because headshots aren't that common.

So it's just a matter of some 100 ton mechs paying 36t+ammo and running standard engines to do 50 damage inside AC/20 range. There are plenty of other options to do more damage at longer range for less weight.

Is getting focused by 4 dual HGauss mechs likely to kill you? Well yes, but so does getting focused by 4 laser vomit assault mechs or really any 4 competently built assault mechs.

[East Indy]

The problem is what plagues MechWarrior tank-with-a-bunch-of-guns games. There are no diminishing returns on multiple weapons until the easily gamed Heat Scale (or outright Gauss firing limit) kicks in, so two of the same weapon are always better than one (and chassis with hardpoints to support multiples are better, etc. etc.).

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 05 February 2018 - 04:13 AM, said:

It also has close to 25% more optimum range.

HGauss does about 20 damage at the optimum range for AC20, doesn't it? The wacky falloff makes them have more similar profiles.

[El Bandito]

Snowbluff, on 07 February 2018 - 06:48 AM, said:

HGauss does about 20 damage at the optimum range for AC20, doesn't it? The wacky falloff makes them have more similar profiles.

Even if they do same 20 damage at 270 meters, HGauss requires a lot more sacrifices to mount, and goes boom.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 February 2018 - 06:58 AM.

[R Valentine]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 February 2018 - 10:37 PM, said:

People who have no idea what they are talking about say that sure, but that doesn't make them right. You think that because a couple people on the forums can't figure out how to play the Dire that suddenly I should just listen to them? Why? What makes their opinion more valid than mine? Certainly not their in-game stats.

The Dire IS viable now, because it can produce a 94 damage alpha at range and be heat efficient enough, but if you get what you want and murder large, one-shot kill capable alphas, then it will be garbage.

The Dire Whales problems stem from the fact that anything it can do, a shiney new 90 tonner can do better, with better hardpoint locations, while walking faster, adding a C-bill bonus, jump jet potential, etc. etc. Even if it who shall not be named didn't exist, there's more clan assaults that outclass the Dire Wolf in all of the intangibles, which is what the Dire Wolf is weak at. KDK-3 and MADIIC to name a couple. If the Dire Wolf was an IS mech with armor quirks, people might actually play it.

But that's another discussion. I don't think Gauss needs heat, because that just makes it another auto-cannon. It really needs a longer CD. Like 100% longer. 8 seconds minimum. IS Gauss should cylce FASTER than clan Gauss. Because they're heavier with no auto-case. IS gauss 8 second CD, clan 9. Gauss should not be allowed to CHARGE within .5 seconds of any energy weapon. Gauss not be allowed charge while an energy weapon is firing. No energy weapon can follow a gauss shot in under .5 seconds. That will force everyone to fire Gauss FIRST and energy half a second behind that, giving a much larger window to twist or retreat to cover. Firing gauss second will lead to a much longer differential because you'd have .5 seconds + charge up instead of just .5 seconds. The same rules would apply to HGR.

As for head shots, no one has provided any evidence at all to make me believe they're even an issue. REGULAR GAUSS USED TO BE ABLE TO HEAD SHOT TOO AT A MUCH LONGER RANGE, but no one complained about it then. Why is HGR suddenly "ZOMG HEADSHOT OFFENDER!" when it's got a much shorter optimal and many other weaknesses regular old gauss never had during its head shottting days? I call total and utter BS.

[Water Bear]

Why must this thread persist?

If you've reached a point where you're debating a weapons headshot capacity, you are discussing the bottom 1% of game play events. Maybe the issue should be considered resolved at that point.

[R Valentine]

Water Bear, on 07 February 2018 - 10:32 AM, said:

Why must this thread persist?

If you've reached a point where you're debating a weapons headshot capacity, you are discussing the bottom 1% of game play events. Maybe the issue should be considered resolved at that point.

Ah yes, absolutely nothing has changed anywhere about anything and yet we must declare the issue resolved because head shots came up. I don't disagree with you on the bottom 1% of game play, but that's just a side tangent. The issue still needs to be debated and spoken about until PGI actually does something about. it.

[Water Bear]

Kiran Yagami, on 07 February 2018 - 10:35 AM, said:

Ah yes, absolutely nothing has changed anywhere about anything and yet we must declare the issue resolved because head shots came up. I don't disagree with you on the bottom 1% of game play, but that's just a side tangent. The issue still needs to be debated and spoken about until PGI actually does something about. it.

A tiny percentage of people dies to a lightning strike each year. Do you think we should devote much of our time to discussing this pressing issue?