Jump to content

Twice The Mg Weight, Half The Hardpoints: Why Not Buff Is Machineguns?


105 replies to this topic

#1 Brain Cancer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • 3,851 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:20 PM

One thing with the advent of the Piranha has made abundantly clear is the horrifying effect of enough MGs on a target.

Well, that and Clan MGs are half the weight. And the IS gets half the hardpoints at most.

Why don't six IS MG hardpoints equal the potency of 12 Clan ones, since the weight is the same? This would also give the IS more options, as even though stuff like the Arrow or Jagermech would be able to generate MG dakka on equivalent levels, other IS robots would have potent options for their ballistic mounts as well. The new Griffin would be popping off shots like a Shadow Cat, and even 2B carriers would still be able to dump twice the guns as before, and 4 MGs is a respectable piece of work.

Given, it'd also make IS MGs effectively more ammo efficient, as they'd be firing half the guns for the same result. But still. Much less dakka envy that way, right?

#2 R Valentine

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Heavy Lifter
  • Heavy Lifter
  • 1,744 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:26 PM

IS can't have nice things. Lasers that do 60+ alphas. Mechs with perfect hardpoint mounts. Mechs that can boat a zillion of anything. XL engines that don't kill you on a shoulder loss. IS lights can take what, 4 machine guns tops? Did we really need a clan mech with 12? Not to mention most IS light mechs with machine guns have them on the arms. You know, those tissue paper thin arms that light mechs have that fall off when just about anything blinks at them. The Parana has them on the shoulders.

#3 Battlemaster56

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Pack Leader
  • Pack Leader
  • 2,944 posts
  • LocationOn the not so distant moon on Endor

Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:38 PM

View PostKiran Yagami, on 05 February 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

IS can't have nice things. Lasers that do 60+ alphas. Mechs with perfect hardpoint mounts. Mechs that can boat a zillion of anything. XL engines that don't kill you on a shoulder loss. IS lights can take what, 4 machine guns tops? Did we really need a clan mech with 12? Not to mention most IS light mechs with machine guns have them on the arms. You know, those tissue paper thin arms that light mechs have that fall off when just about anything blinks at them. The Parana has them on the shoulders.


Well other than complaining what bout finding ways to help IS, I mean it's really getting annoying reading IS can't have nice things bohoo, seriously come up with something that's worthwhile. Or flood Russ twitter we angry complaints about IS and demand action I mean we had like what three massive outcries that got em to change things.

But on topic I'll say increase ammo per ton on IS mg's it help out lights a bit and get them fire long, won't impact anything 45 tons or above but it's something, another thing they can do is reduce cone of fire so the damage is more concentrated.

But I haven't touch the MG spider or any light in the IS that uses mg's yet I'm gonna hold off a bit til I build up more experience behind them.

#4 Brain Cancer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • 3,851 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:41 PM

I'm just wanting to see the IS be able to generate equivalent levels of firepower here. Rather than inflate ballistic hardpoint counts considering that leaves the IS at a weight disadvantage...making IS MGs distinctly better than Clan ones seems to be the logical solution. It also means the IS would be burning half the ammo to get the same results, which would also be a side buff.

#5 R Valentine

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Heavy Lifter
  • Heavy Lifter
  • 1,744 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:43 PM

View PostBattlemaster56, on 05 February 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

Well other than complaining what bout finding ways to help IS, I mean it's really getting annoying reading IS can't have nice things bohoo, seriously come up with something that's worthwhile. Or flood Russ twitter we angry complaints about IS and demand action I mean we had like what three massive outcries that got em to change things.

But on topic I'll say increase ammo per ton on IS mg's it help out lights a bit and get them fire long, won't impact anything 45 tons or above but it's something, another thing they can do is reduce cone of fire so the damage is more concentrated.

But I haven't touch the MG spider or any light in the IS that uses mg's yet I'm gonna hold off a bit til I build up more experience behind them.


How is ammo going to help? The glaring issues with machine guns aren't ammo related save weight. The biggest issues are A) arm mounts and B) lack of hard points. Unless you outright buff IS machine guns to be the damage superior to clan, which PGI would freak out over given how much they love to stick to lore except when it suits them, you can't possibly make IS light mechs boat machine guns effectively. In order to be somewhat competitive in the machine line light world you'd need at least 6, which no IS light mech has. And when has PGI ever added hard points to a mech?

#6 Jay Leon Hart

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Spear
  • The Spear
  • 4,669 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:44 PM

Double damage, or double ammo, or something in between seems good. Then revert the nerfs to Clan MGs.

#7 Mole

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,314 posts
  • LocationAt work, cutting up brains for a living.

Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:46 PM

They kind of already did a little bit. I believe that they made Clan MGs have a bigger cone of fire than IS MGs under the justification of IS MGs weighing twice as much. But it's not enough, obviously.

#8 Brain Cancer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • 3,851 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 01:56 PM

Also, it'd make IS chassis with fewer hardpoints have legit reasons to mount MGs if they wanted to.

Plenty of IS non-lights with 2-3B hardpoints that would have a serious reason to put some brrrrtt in. Vindicator-1X, for example.

Giving it the equivalent of a 6 MG arm makes it a helluva lot more potentially dangerous. It gives the Dragon-5N options too, or even things like the original Hunchback or the Centurion-AH. Close combat options for a lot more IS chassis open up here, more so since MGs are a heat-free option to use.

#9 InvictusLee

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Cyber Warrior
  • The Cyber Warrior
  • 1,693 posts
  • LocationStanding atop my MKII's missile pack, having a whisky and a cigar.

Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:01 PM

Nah. I dont need a somewhat tanky arrow or a super tanky jager DD up my **** with the same fire power as a pirannah that can one shot my rear end already...

#10 ANOM O MECH

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • 993 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:09 PM

If you did this though, those stupid builds that put two or three machine guns on Bushies, or even Thunderbolts would make more sense.

Don't want that. Am enjoying the easy kills.

#11 Y E O N N E

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 16,810 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:11 PM

Because common sense is hard.

I'll even accept something like +50% higher RoF and +20% longer range while lowering the crits to Clan levels or possibly even lower, so the generally slower IS MG boat can deploy more effectively.

An IS LMG would deal 1.05 DPS from 300 meters, MG would deal 1.5 from 150 meters, and HMG would deal 2.1 from 120 meters.

Hey, now the Arrow and Locust 1V might be worth something other than memes and hard mode!

Also, IMHO, HMGs for both sides need an ammo increase to ~1250. The only things that can really use HMG are 1v1 machines and Urbies.

View PostNovember11th, on 05 February 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

Nah. I dont need a somewhat tanky arrow or a super tanky jager DD up my **** with the same fire power as a pirannah that can one shot my rear end already...


Arrows an Jagers are not even remotely tanky and they can't sprint up behind you.

#12 Brain Cancer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • 3,851 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:19 PM

View PostNovember11th, on 05 February 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

Nah. I dont need a somewhat tanky arrow or a super tanky jager DD up my **** with the same fire power as a pirannah that can one shot my rear end already...



When they can zip in at light speeds to do so, lemme know. IMHO, if the guns are good for one robot, they should be an option for others....I mean, I can't even be all "Clan Apologist" here. If that kind of soul-shredding firepower is OK for a 20-tonner that can position pretty much at will across the battlefield, surely similar levels are OK for the IS with less mobile options.

Nothing in the IS light arsenal packs more than 4B. That's the equivalent of the 8-MG lights the Clans have like the MLX and ACH, slapped onto things like Locusts or the Urbanmech arm mounts, or perhaps the Huginn would see a renaissance.

The Arrow tops out at a 235 engine, meaning it's moving about what, 91kph with full speed tweak? Pretty mobile, but it's not 145kph mobile in the least. The Jager-DD doesn't even clear 80kph before speed tweaks.

#13 SOL Ranger

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 232 posts
  • LocationEndor, exterminating little evil bear people for the Empire.

Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:26 PM

A highly significant range advantage would be nice. One could explain the higher weight with a longer high velocity barrel that gives longer range. The damage doesn't necessarily have to be adjusted much.

#14 Andi Nagasia

    Volunteer Moderator

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 5,982 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:29 PM

well my solution to all of this is actually in my Sig,
(Is / Clan, Tonnage / Crit, Balance Concept!)

#15 Jay Leon Hart

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Spear
  • The Spear
  • 4,669 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:38 PM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 05 February 2018 - 02:11 PM, said:

Also, IMHO, HMGs for both sides need an ammo increase to ~1250. The only things that can really use HMG are 1v1 machines and Urbies.

Indeed they do. I can get by with 0.5 tons per LMG or MG just fine. I need 1 ton per HMG though, making their extra weight even more troublesome.

#16 Brain Cancer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • 3,851 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 02:52 PM

View PostAndi Nagasia, on 05 February 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

well my solution to all of this is actually in my Sig,
(Is / Clan, Tonnage / Crit, Balance Concept!)



No, that's an attempt to completely rewrite the entire weapon balance system.

Machine guns. Just machine guns. KISS principle.

#17 Y E O N N E

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 16,810 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:03 PM

View PostBrain Cancer, on 05 February 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:



No, that's an attempt to completely rewrite the entire weapon balance system.

Machine guns. Just machine guns. KISS principle.


It also does literally nothing to address the problem: firepower delta.

I do not have any ammo concerns in my IS MG boats except when using HMG, and that's not an IS-specific problem. I also don't have any issue fitting the best IS energy weapons to go with these MGs

#18 LordNothing

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 17,809 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:16 PM

especially the heavy machine gun. those need a lot more dps, up to 1.60 maybe as high as 1.75 for what they do. they dont need any more crit though. but they should be the best knife fighting weapon in the game. a pair should be equivalent to an ac2 but trading range for no (or very low) heat and higher dps.


the other machine guns on the other hand would get maybe at most a 10% dps boost and a bigger crit chance. clan are about numbers really so its a shame that is dont have more superior weapons. making their hmg a total monster would be a good place to start.

the mg->ac2 gap is half a ton narrower for the sphere so it needs to have a really strong hmg to compensate.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 February 2018 - 03:22 PM.


#19 Mcgral18

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • 17,987 posts
  • LocationSnow

Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:17 PM

Because faction balance is a lie from PGI

#20 Y E O N N E

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 16,810 posts

Posted 05 February 2018 - 03:36 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 05 February 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

especially the heavy machine gun. those need a lot more dps, up to 1.60 maybe as high as 1.75 for what they do. they dont need any more crit though. but they should be the best knife fighting weapon in the game. a pair should be equivalent to an ac2 but trading range for no (or very low) heat and higher dps.


HMGs are the best knife-fighting weapon in the game already, you just don't get enough ammo for it to really work outside of 1v1s.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users