175 replies to this topic

[Natural Predator]

Incursion and conquest are what they are. I won’t even discuss those.

Drop caller for 12 man units need to stop because you are doing your teams a great disservice.

1. Cbills- your players who need better mech load outs don't make **** for cbills by gen rushing.
2. Skill- Your players are not learning to coordinate shooting and trading and most importantly working together to bring down targets.
3. Synergy- you need to force your players to synergize builds with each other to maximize armor damage taken and damage output. I see too many teams with 9 guys pushing and 3 guys (usually drop callers) hitting from the back. If you want to see a drop caller who pushes from the front look at Pat Kell. Drop callers should be leading teams.
4. Positioning- If your not going to try and defeat your enemy you will never learn how to position your team correctly to do so.

Edited by Ragnar Baron Leiningen, 05 February 2018 - 03:23 PM.

[Meppoy]

Personally I disagree with this position. Gen rush is an irritating tactics, ofc, but it can be countered relatively easy. If you see the big amount of players from one unit on other side - ask your team to group up around gens and focus hard on the wave of attackers. It's also good to have a scout or two to find out which way the enemies chose.

I just wanna say, team cooperation was always OP and it can't be nerfed. What's next? We'll ask to restrict a size of CW groups, like, for 4 players? Or maybe we'll ban any good drop-callers from using VOIP?

Gen rush may be a problem, but it's not the terrible one and obviously not the worst problem of this game.

With all the respect. Hope you'll fix you'r posting problem and show us the details of your request.

[Helsbane]

It does this to me too at times. Write your post in Word and cut and paste instead and see if that helps.

[Natural Predator]

I’m gonna respond to you but for some reason my phone cuts off messages. Give me 30 and I’ll tell you why your wrong

[Joshua McEvedy]

No.

[Eisenhorne]

Heh, I only like doing it because it pisses you EVIL guys off for some reason. I'd rather lose a stand up fight, but then we just get made fun of anyway, so if we can annoy you in the process so much the better.

[Tarl Cabot]

Here is one for Assault but timer ran out.. someone said in chat PUGS > BNB...



Ohh,, and...

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 05 February 2018 - 02:50 PM.

[Natural Predator]

Tarl Cabot, on 05 February 2018 - 02:47 PM, said:

Here is one for Assault but timer ran out.. someone said in chat PUGS > BNB...



Ohh,, and...

Congrats Tarl you found a 2 year old screen shot before I joined Evil and learned from the BNB tactics. I can post plenty of screenshots now if you want to **** measure.

[Johnathan Von Tanner]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 05 February 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

Congrats Tarl you found a 2 year old screen shot before I joined Evil and learned from the BNB tactics. I can post plenty of screenshots now if you want to **** measure.

[Meppoy]

Meh. I've got a few new ideas for this tread.

Let's get rid of Domination on Grim Plexus. I'm tired of fights where city-sided team can't step in the circle and hold it.

Let's get rid of Polar Highlands. I'm tired of games when ~16 lrm boats are sending gold rains to each other endlessly.

Let's get rid of Mining Collective. I'm tired of brawlers domination on this map, I can't play my beloved laser-vomit properly on it.

Let's get rid of Piranha. It's broken. Too much of machine guns.

Let's get rid of Escort, it's stupid.

Let's get rid of Terra Therma, old one was way better.

Let's get rid of IV-4, it's overpowered.

Let's get rid of statistics on end-match screen. It makes bad-performing people feel humiliated.

And for the love of God let's get rid of this pathetic manner to cry about everything which is irrigating you. Seriously.

* * *

There're many of potential ways to improve Siege game mode. You can make generators closed for the beginning of the game, all except one, and open up after the distraction of the first with a minute of cooldown. You can play with amount of their health, you can put a cooldown on Omega's shield, you can add a possibility for defenders to play it after Omega's death and make it a tie if defenders would kill all the attackers.
A lot of ways to improve, if you'd think about it for a minute. But no, let's just cut off the part of the game because Ragnar doesn't like it.

I really thought you have some good arguments for your position, but I was mistaken.

But nevertheless, you have at least a bad idea of improvement of this game. And that's mean you're really involved in it, at least a little bit. I sincerely respect that.

If I say anything too rude for your taste - I apologise.

[Leone]

Alright, let's see if I can get this back on topic.

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 05 February 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

1. Cbills- your players who need better mech load outs don't make **** for cbills by gen rushing.

Honestly, I don't care about cbills, but I recognize that many do. It's a solid point, but I'm sure those who do gen rush are already prioritizing the win.

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 05 February 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

2. Skill- Your players are not learning to coordinate shooting and trading and most importantly working together to bring down targets.

Honestly, unless the defenders aren't bothering to defend, you'll need to work on coordination and focus fire or you'll never get through the gauntlet and to the gens. Ignore the mechs and you'll have precious little left to hit the gens with.

Again, assuming the defense defends.

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 05 February 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

3. Synergy- you need to force your players to synergize builds with each other to maximize armor damage taken and damage output. I see too many teams with 9 guys pushing and 3 guys (usually drop callers) hitting from the back. If you want to see a drop caller who pushes from the front look at Pat Kell. Drop callers should be leading teams.

I concur. Not on the synergized builds as much, though it really helps, but on the team cohesion and leading from the front. Now, to play devil's advocate, I should point out that those who lead from the front tend to get their mechs shot out from under them and it may be harder to make calls whilst queuing up inna new mech. It's kinda why we just have general rules of engagement that everyone follows to cut down on unnecessary comms chatter.

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 05 February 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

4. Positioning- If your not going to try and defeat your enemy you will never learn how to position your team correctly to do so.

Oh positioning is huge. I can, and have written entire guides that try and touch on it, but yeah, that's more'n a simple PSA could cover.

~Leone.

[Natural Predator]

Examples, I apologized they are not embedding but the Forum wont host them.

https://i.imgur.com/BFyL8oH.jpg 3 Man of evils vs a unit. We were attacking. Shows the breakdown in shooting that's going on. It used to be you would have 10-12 units in FP that would fight it out in siege mode. Now there is like MS, KCOM, EVIIL, and BCMC.

https://imgur.com/a/GX9cj And again a unit with very sub standard damage that probably is due to loadouts more than anything. Which illustrates the lack of positioning, standardized load outs, and lack of teamwork.

https://imgur.com/a/X9y8a Here is an example of group of MS who do fight, vs players who gen rush. MS players greatly out damage the rest of their team.

All these examples are less than 10 days old.

Eisenhorne, on 05 February 2018 - 02:40 PM, said:

Heh, I only like doing it because it pisses you EVIL guys off for some reason. I'd rather lose a stand up fight, but then we just get made fun of anyway, so if we can annoy you in the process so much the better.

I could care less about that. I am trying to help you help your players. Your barking up on the wrong tree with me.

Edited by Ragnar Baron Leiningen, 05 February 2018 - 04:29 PM.

[Natural Predator]

Meppoy, on 05 February 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

Meh. I've got a few new ideas for this tread.

Let's get rid of Domination on Grim Plexus. I'm tired of fights where city-sided team can't step in the circle and hold it.

Let's get rid of Polar Highlands. I'm tired of games when ~16 lrm boats are sending gold rains to each other endlessly.

Let's get rid of Mining Collective. I'm tired of brawlers domination on this map, I can't play my beloved laser-vomit properly on it.

Let's get rid of Piranha. It's broken. Too much of machine guns.

Let's get rid of Escort, it's stupid.

Let's get rid of Terra Therma, old one was way better.

Let's get rid of IV-4, it's overpowered.

Let's get rid of statistics on end-match screen. It makes bad-performing people feel humiliated.

And for the love of God let's get rid of this pathetic manner to cry about everything which is irrigating you. Seriously.

* * *

There're many of potential ways to improve Siege game mode. You can make generators closed for the beginning of the game, all except one, and open up after the distraction of the first with a minute of cooldown. You can play with amount of their health, you can put a cooldown on Omega's shield, you can add a possibility for defenders to play it after Omega's death and make it a tie if defenders would kill all the attackers.
A lot of ways to improve, if you'd think about it for a minute. But no, let's just cut off the part of the game because Ragnar doesn't like it.

I really thought you have some good arguments for your position, but I was mistaken.

But nevertheless, you have at least a bad idea of improvement of this game. And that's mean you're really involved in it, at least a little bit. I sincerely respect that.

If I say anything too rude for your taste - I apologise.

Your misconstruing the post I think. This is not about getting rid of any modes. This is about help people understand as drop callers how they are hurting their teams by forcing them to gen rush in siege mode. I have learned from this mistake from BNB days. I am trying to pass on this knowledge to help teams.

[denAirwalkerrr]

I'd say it the other way simply: if your team always gen rushes in siege/incursion (I don't mind second) it will usually have problems in any other gamemode where you don't have objective to rush or it has adequate defendebility (aka base on Assault) compared to paperthin o-gens and instead of trying to get better by winning on harder way in attack they still yolo rushing to the last.

We (like 8 man EVIL premade) had a game vs some unit in incursion. They had 12 ASN 1st wave and then almost all 36 mechs heavies and assaults on LBX-10, ML/MPL, AMS. From first wave we had only like 5-10% left on last piece of base at the middle. Guess what. Not a single of their heavies didn't even got a scratch on it. If they had like at least 3-4 mechs with mid-long range weaponary they could easily kill it. Group up with all 12, break remaining forces and get the base while we're spawning. But no, ****** loadout, just trying to one by one rush past mechs shooting you CUZ ARMOR QUIIIIIIIRKS and 0 sence of what to do if standart plan not working as against pugs in 95% of other games.

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 05 February 2018 - 04:35 PM.

[Natural Predator]

denAirwalkerrr, on 05 February 2018 - 04:25 PM, said:

I'd say it the other way simply: if your team always gen rushes in siege/incursion (I don't mind second) it will usually have problems in any other gamemode where you don't have objective to rush or it has adequate defendebility (aka base on Assault) compared to paperthin o-gens.

If you are not buying what I am selling, This is a guy you should listen to.

[denAirwalkerrr]

And worst part is not skill/c-bills/etc. It's that you give your unitmates illusion that they are somewhat good in this game if you win like that.

I actually almost sure that sometimes in voice coms of these units smth like this can be said: "Good job guys our 12 men premade successfully gen rushed 5-6 men premade of EVIL/BCMC/MS/whatever"

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 05 February 2018 - 04:41 PM.

[MovinTarget]

I don't care much for gen rushing myself, but those i know that do it don't about the reasons you presented...

Its about bragging rights. Its speeds up the capture of a planets and increases your chance at getting tags on it. Many smaller-midsized unit find this a point of validation.

You can say its cheesy/boring/stagnating/whatever but they learned it from the big units back the day. Like MS pushing, what 3-4 planets a day?

So we can kvetch about it, but in the end of the day, if we couldn't stop them it will just appear to be sour grapes to complain.

This is nothing new and its actually rarer than it used to be.

Its just like the age-old spawn camping issue, victims will never be happy... if ypu camp they will whine, if they feel like you are just messing with them, they'll whine.

[Randy7786]

While we wait for this thread to go where it's destined to go, shall we grab some popcorn?

Edited by Randy7786, 05 February 2018 - 04:41 PM.

[denAirwalkerrr]

MovinTarget, on 05 February 2018 - 04:39 PM, said:

Its about bragging rights. Its speeds up the capture of a planets and increases your chance at getting tags on it. Many smaller-midsized unit find this a point of validation.

LOL

[Elad]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 05 February 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

Examples, I apologized they are not embedding but the Forum wont host them.

https://imgur.com/a/GX9cj And again a unit with very sub standard damage that probably is due to loadouts more than anything. Which illustrates the lack of positioning, standardized load outs, and lack of teamwork.

There was definitely a lack of teamwork this match. I hope the unit was on TS or discord because I know they didn’t talk with their PUGs that match. The one thing that I have really noticed dropping solo is that there are certain units that will try to work with, or include their pugs, and there are others that refuse to communicate with them at all. The groups that communicate generally win more, or at least if they lose, it is a good fight and not a complete stomp.