83 replies to this topic

[A1Ste4kSauce]

I've seen plenty of games where everyone is below 600 and even 500 damage. You don't need to blow off every part to kill a mech. As a light pilot I only aim for sts and cts and prioritize the weaker parts. Damage is no indication of your contribution to your team, unless you're sub 300.

[C E Dwyer]

Wonders at this point whether it's better to take L.R.M's to F.P and spray 1500 damage or get three head shots for under 100

[Sigmar Sich]

There was a game once, "Damage Inc."
UPD scrap it. It was "War Inc."
I loved it. Shame thread is not about it.
About thread, though. If one's ego is big enough, one should mock players who do more damage in the game - you need only 30+ to destroy the cockpit. If you do more than that, you are a solanum tuberosum with feeble aim.

Edited by Sigmar Sich, 06 February 2018 - 11:02 AM.

[FupDup]

There are so many variables that it can be kind of arbitrary to define a specific gold standard of damage that you should always reach or beat.

One variable is the specific mechs on the other team. More big mechs will on average mean you need more damage to take down each one. Some mechs have better or worse hitboxes that make them harder or easier to kill. Some mechs have durability quirks to make them eat some more damage, which includes the skill tree survival section.

There's also the skill level of your teammates. If most of the people on your team are decent, then you will usually see a somewhat even spread of damage/kills among them because they are effectively competing against each other. For one or two people to have super high damage that usually means they didn't have any good teammates to compete against.

Depending on the map, Nascar may be in full force and thus slower mechs may get gobbled up before they have the chance to bring their big guns to bear. The heat level of the map can either help certain builds do more damage or hinder it for others. Somebody who DC's will leave a void that the rest of their team has to fill in, and even if they reconnect later they might not be able to get much action (depending on their mobility).

You might be facing enemies who put IS XL on mechs that really have no business using it, allowing you to get a kill with lower damage. Maybe you can get lucky and trigger an ammo explosion for a quick kill. An enemy mech with Gauss, specifically side torso Gauss, will usually take less damage to kill than if they hadn't used that gun. Maybe the enemy player just isn't very good at torso twisting, so it's easier to quickly focus out the CT to minimize the damage needed to kill them.

And of course there's the specific weapon type variable, with some builds being great for precision kills with low damage while others are sloppy sandblasters.

With all of that being said I try to have around ~300 damage for a minimum baseline or else I probably feel disappointed with the match.

Edited by FupDup, 06 February 2018 - 11:03 AM.

[Humpday]

Escef, on 06 February 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

What game are you guys playing? No, seriously, I regularly see matches where both top damage is below 600 and 3/4s of the winning team deals less than 400 on a regular basis. I just fail to see how you can realistically have standards like that.

As I said, in group queue, on a good team, you will win...win decisively against anyone, and everyone will have around only ~400ish damage score. This is because people are PULLING THEIR WEIGHT almost equally. In fact its incredibly more difficult to score high when the rest of your team is good as well because they are just as lethal, and will kill the enemy team so fast there is no time get large amounts of damage in(less MRM/ LRM splat damage).

For soloq:

You don't have to particularly score high damage, you can have crap damage and take 3 people off the team you are helping. But that's almost never the case. The fact of the matter is, damage numbers are a good(not perfect, not the end all indicator, just good and best option with the current statistics offered) indication of what you are doing on the field of battle. Doing sub 400damage with zero kills means you've been sitting for most of the game un-engaged letting your team mates do the damage work for you so you can maybe snag a kill. You are doing something wrong if you are not able to output damage numbers as simple as 400dmg, all that takes is staying engaged and spend most of your time shooting rather than hiding/maneuvering.

You are doing something extremely wrong if you are under 1k/d per match and match scores are dipping below far below 250. In which case if you've made it to Tier1 you belong back in the academy playing AI bots simply for the reason that you lack basic understanding of how to play the game to and have a decent effect on the virtual field of battle. And there is nothing wrong with that. You simply don't get how to play the game. But I don't want to be grouped with you, nor does anyone else...same thing thing with life...we fire engineers that can't pull their weight because at the end of the day they just slow us down.

The top ranked people that play this game, as mentioned previously, will rack up huge damage numbers and kills because they are shooting at everything they see and stay engaged instead of hiding. They will also kill a lot for the same reasons. *In solo q*

The better you get at the game the higher k/d gets and the higher dmg avg(use match score here as a rough estimate) naturally...it just happens. https://leaderboard....earch?u=humpday

And those talking about cockpitting people, get out of here with that. Most people aren't scoring head shots and getting low damage numbers on a routine basis. That is outside the scope of this discussion, same with killing 7 people by coring them in the rear but only snagging 500 damage. Both are cases that are the exception. You people that can routinely perform such acts you're well exempt from the discussion.

EDIT:
If for some reason, no matter how hard you try, and no matter how much firepower you take(realistically you only need 30dmg to put up a 1200dmg game), you cannot break 400dmg and 1k/d per match...

...I highly recommend you watch the twitch streams for proton and bear_cl4w, you'll learn how become more lethal watching them.
https://www.twitch.tv/prtn_spz
https://www.twitch.tv/bear_cl4w

==========

Dafuk is this!?:
First, keep in mind where there have been plenty of times I have been on opposite side of this dmg/kill screen...but that just reinforces what I've said, strive to hit high(er) damage numbers.

Edited by Humpday, 06 February 2018 - 01:14 PM.

[Escef]

Humpday, on 06 February 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

As I said, in group queue...

You're damage farming.

[Humpday]

Escef, on 06 February 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

You're damage farming.

No, if i was simply farming damage for the sake of putting up big dmg scores you'd see me K/d stagnate and or dip...not constantly rise as I get better and better.

And am I damage farming in all those losing matches? No, I'm merely trying to kill people, which you see there...I am while the rest of my team apparently just sits on their hands.

But anyway, the fact is 90% of the time, the team with the most damage wins. Therefore, rack up damage best you can.

And here, just got out of this game in my alt, am I damage farming?
In a bone stock Trial Direwolf?
No, I am simply staying engaged and shooting whatever crosses my path.
Now who do you think won that game? And look how many people I have to personally carry.
Its nonsense.

Edited by Humpday, 06 February 2018 - 03:04 PM.

[Escef]

Humpday, on 06 February 2018 - 02:55 PM, said:

No, if i was simply farming damage for the sake of putting up big dmg scores you'd see me K/d stagnate and or dip...

No, I wouldn't. Because I don't watch your K/d. Because I don't give a flip about it. If your damage totals and/or K/d make you feel better about life, hey, great for you. But by your own standards, in the match results you just posted there are 2 Wolfhounds and an Urbanmech that broke 300 damage that still aren't pulling their weight. Doesn't that sound really stupid to you? Because it sure as hell does to me.

[Bud Crue]

Escef, on 06 February 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

No, I wouldn't. Because I don't watch your K/d. Because I don't give a flip about it. If your damage totals and/or K/d make you feel better about life, hey, great for you. But by your own standards, in the match results you just posted there are 2 Wolfhounds and an Urbanmech that broke 300 damage that still aren't pulling their weight. Doesn't that sound really stupid to you? Because it sure as hell does to me.

Your exchange with Humpday made me go look at my collection of screen shots. I love those matches where I have 1000 or more damage and zero kills, but I touched 10 enemies (and in something like an AC10/ML Jagger to really rub the incompetence in), but by the standards discussed I am pulling my own weight (yes, nearly all my matches are in group queue) But one of my fellows in an Urban or a Locust has sub-400 or even sub-300 damage, but 3 kills and 3 assists and they are "not pulling their own weight"? Somehow I think not. This debate is just silly.

[kailii]

Ahoy mateys, still looking to link player skill and damage done after all those years?

Lemme tell you about two of my QP matches just days ago...

First one i did 1100 damage on a Phoenix Hawk, second one 80 damage on an Urbie.

First match, i got off some nice salvoes. But i really farmed damage at the end when it was me and a light Blue against a Red light Mech. Took us maybe 3 minutes to bring him down with all that zigging and zagging and jumping.
Just could not leg the *******.
So this was a BAD encounter as everyone waiting to see their match score had to wait for me.

Second match, i realized our base was being capped by 2 Reds, and only one Blue was responding. So i turned back to help our guy. When i arrived, he just killed one of the attackers, and the second one ran when he saw both of us.
Before i got back to the front, our chaps roflstomped.
This was a GOOD encounter as i helped secure victory for our team.

So... 1100 damage - bad game. 80 damage - good game.

Now i don't want to look rude, but you know what? Shove those damage figures and averages and stuff up your backside where they belong. And be done with it for Gods sake!

[Humpday]

Bud Crue, on 06 February 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

Your exchange with Humpday made me go look at my collection of screen shots. I love those matches where I have 1000 or more damage and zero kills, but I touched 10 enemies (and in something like an AC10/ML Jagger to really rub the incompetence in), but by the standards discussed I am pulling my own weight (yes, nearly all my matches are in group queue) But one of my fellows in an Urban or a Locust has sub-400 or even sub-300 damage, but 3 kills and 3 assists and they are "not pulling their own weight"? Somehow I think not. This debate is just silly.

No i explicitly said, pulling your weight is more than just doing damage as long as you're doing SOMETHING. If you're doing less than 400 damage you better at LEAST be taking people off the battlefield.

But as a basic, theeee most basic way of helping your team out is sheer damage not necessarily going a HUGE amount, just doing enough to be relevant.

[Bombast]

kailii, on 06 February 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

Ahoy mateys, still looking to link player skill and damage done after all those years?

Lemme tell you about two of my QP matches just days ago...

First one i did 1100 damage on a Phoenix Hawk, second one 80 damage on an Urbie.

First match, i got off some nice salvoes. But i really farmed damage at the end when it was me and a light Blue against a Red light Mech. Took us maybe 3 minutes to bring him down with all that zigging and zagging and jumping.
Just could not leg the *******.
So this was a BAD encounter as everyone waiting to see their match score had to wait for me.

Second match, i realized our base was being capped by 2 Reds, and only one Blue was responding. So i turned back to help our guy. When i arrived, he just killed one of the attackers, and the second one ran when he saw both of us.
Before i got back to the front, our chaps roflstomped.
This was a GOOD encounter as i helped secure victory for our team.

So... 1100 damage - bad game. 80 damage - good game.

Now i don't want to look rude, but you know what? Shove those damage figures and averages and stuff up your backside where they belong. And be done with it for Gods sake!

If your best match, and presumably most fun, is one where you did virtually nothing, hey, you do you.

[kailii]

Bombast, on 06 February 2018 - 04:33 PM, said:

If your best match, and presumably most fun, is one where you did virtually nothing, hey, you do you.

1) I said i talked about two matches just days ago. Not "best match", not "presumably most fun".
2) Did "virtually nothing"?. An Urbie who saved the match at 80 damage? All praise Urbie!
3) "you do you"? Not at all my friend. Read again. I was talking team effort all the time.

Besides all that my friend... Why the hatred?

EDIT: Oh i just realized i'm listed as tier 4. This might be the reason for your unfriendly reaction, as maybe i should not be allowed to talk when professionals speak. Just an idea to explain your reaction.
If so, it might ease your mind to understand that i had, just roughly spoken, around 1060 matches before the tier system was implemented. Does this make me presentable for talk?
Anyways, discussing anything based on "stats" makes me always feel funny, so i am pulling out of this discussion. *giggles* You won! Happy now?
EDIT ENDS

Edited by kailii, 06 February 2018 - 05:03 PM.

[Bombast]

kailii, on 06 February 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

1) I said i talked about two matches just days ago. Not "best match", not "presumably most fun".

It's called being facetious.

Quote

2) Did "virtually nothing"?. An Urbie who saved the match at 80 damage? All praise Urbie!

You saved the match by doing nothing? I doubt it.

Quote

3) "you do you"? Not at all my friend. Read again. I was talking team effort all the time.

You walked back to base and it turned out to not be necessary. It happens and it's not like you made a bad move, but let's not blow it out of proportion - You walked somewhere to do something, didn't do it, and then the rest of the team won the match while you were in transit.

Quote

Besides all that my friend...

We're not friends.

Quote

Why the hatred?

It's not hate. It's just me being tired of people not paying attention to whats going on and how the matches actually work.

But you're in Tier 4. Maybe it'll get better by the time you max your XP bar out.

[Grus]

PoohPuss, on 05 February 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

So, I've seen a few threads where players laugh about those that don't do above 500 dmg. Seen that vets will teach you how to do 2k damage per match (on average?). Heard people talking with spite about the participants who didn't pass 300 damage. This puzzles me some.

I did some quick math, not very accurate, but enough to get a clue. Given an ideal spread of 3 mechs per category of sensible types, a team only need to deal 1300 damage to CT to kill the whole of the opposing team (EDIT: Talking about QP). That's assuming no crits. It then stands to reason that any surplus damage caused is because it's spread out where it doesen't kill, ie misses.

If you shoot only where it counts (and can't get at their backs) you'll have caused damage equal to one kill (averageing the mechs armor of course) at 110 damage. If you killed the whole enemy team yourself and none of your team-mates did a single point of damage, dealing 2k damage yourself, that would entail roughly 300 dmg worth of misses.

If 12 perfect players won a skirmish doing equal amounts of damage, they would only cause 110 damage each. If a real life tier-1 team win, each doing 1k dmg on average (I don't think there is that much armor and HP present in any given match), that would mean 900 damage worth of essentially misses on average.

(EDIT: "misses" is in this context just for making a point, inaccuracies are what I'm talking about. Also, that matches and players aren't ideal is a matter of course. It's a baseline, a measure of "perfect", for comparison of skill. It's like the French university grading system, that ranges from 0-100% but where 100% is unattainable "because nothing is perfect".)

So I'm wondering what I'm missing regarding the whole "if you do less than 2k damage you're dung" attitude?


PS: I'm not being salty, I know I'm dung and quite comfortable with it. I'm just puzzled.

it really depends on who you drop with/who's on your team. I haven't dropped near enough QP this season but IDK what happened to the match maker but it's been rough.

As for some of the others have said yeah 500 is a good "did your part" number. But if you got a team of killers and everyone dosnt brake 400 damage because mech's are getting killed too quick well... first world problems I guess lol

[blood4blood]

Just did Urbies for the event, all solo QP. 4 games, 4 different Urbie variants, 4 victories:
1) 184 damage, 1 kill (was solo and kmdd), 1 death.
2) 197 damage, 2 kills, survived.
3) 342 damage, 1 kill (2 kmdd's), survived.
4) 306 damage, 4 kills, survived.

So, if I need 400+ damage to contribute to my team, I guess I'll just have to accept being a non-contributor if that's the measure.

[PocketYoda]

Bombast, on 06 February 2018 - 05:04 PM, said:

It's called being facetious.



You saved the match by doing nothing? I doubt it.



You walked back to base and it turned out to not be necessary. It happens and it's not like you made a bad move, but let's not blow it out of proportion - You walked somewhere to do something, didn't do it, and then the rest of the team won the match while you were in transit.



We're not friends.



It's not hate. It's just me being tired of people not paying attention to whats going on and how the matches actually work.

But you're in Tier 4. Maybe it'll get better by the time you max your XP bar out.

You'd feel a lot better if you took that stick out of your *** occasionally.

[UnofficialOperator]

The bads with the 40% in this thread will never understand the difference between damage farming vs just trying your best to get as much damage downrange as possible because the other bads on your team are doing 100 to 150 damage.

Not sure why anyone is bothering debating the bads as they are the ones being carried in their wins. They will never reach consistent high scores or winning consistently anyway so they will not have the perspective of having to deal OVER the average damage in order to carry the day and cover for the bads on the team.

4x to 5x your tonnage is a good rule of thumb for having done your job anyways.

Just my 2 cts

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 06 February 2018 - 07:20 PM.

[Bombast]

Samial, on 06 February 2018 - 07:09 PM, said:

You'd feel a lot better if you took that stick out of your *** occasionally.

I'd feel a lot better if people payed attention to what they were doing in the game, but that ain't happening. Why should your wish come true?

[Bohxim]

In fairness, I've seen aggressive urbie and other light play and even soemtimes they out damage the assault lance while still defending the objectives.
Imo mwo game play mechanics and reward systems tend to favor the fight over the objective play. Heck, most of my losses are better paying than the early game objective wins. So it's reasonable that most ppl out a heavier sense of importance on damage numbers