100 replies to this topic

[Tiewolf]

Lasers are so good because they are hitscan+high alpha+pinpoint with no convergence issues+low time on target to damage done.

There downside is heat, but most of the time you can cool down in cover protected by your teammates. So there is no real disadvantage and that's why other weapon systems can't compete even if they get buffed.

My proposal is that the reticule starts to shake if the alpha is higher then x. So the damage gets spread if the alpha is too high. The lasers can do high alphas but you lose pinpoint+hitscan for dmg. If it works maybe then we can get rid of ghost heat entirely.

P.s.: while we are at shaking reticules, plz
unnerf the jumpjets and add the reticule shake to all mechs that fall to an extend that jump sniping is possible but difficult.

Edited by Tiewolf, 07 February 2018 - 02:52 AM.

[sycocys]

Minimum range roll-offs would balance them right out.

[Curccu]

and how would you do it? cone of fire? how many degrees? SPLs don't give a **** but ERLL cannot even hit intended target.

and this would be worse than ghostheat, it gives you option to shoot huge alpha with some minor or major extra heat, cone would make that alpha useless because you cannot hit target.

[N0ni]

Well adding a "shake" effect to laser alphas "higher than X" would nerf laser vom/gauss vom, but that'd just be adding to the list of fun builds destroyed because reasons.

It'd just shift right back to PPFLD (PPCs, ballistics, SRMs).

#NerfedEnoughAlready

[Nema Nabojiv]

Yeah, lets nerf the last thing that works some more.

[Tiewolf]

Curccu, on 07 February 2018 - 03:00 AM, said:

and how would you do it? cone of fire? how many degrees? SPLs don't give a **** but ERLL cannot even hit intended target.

and this would be worse than ghostheat, it gives you option to shoot huge alpha with some minor or major extra heat, cone would make that alpha useless because you cannot hit target.

If your alpha is lower then x or you stagger your beams
everything is like before so where is your point?
Before this gets into a unfun or everything must be op whining it is about a proposal to balance lasers without making them unfun to use.

[Curccu]

Tiewolf, on 07 February 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

If your alpha is lower then x or you stagger your beams
everything is like before so where is your point?
Before this gets into a unfun or everything must be op whining it is about a proposal to balance lasers without making them unfun to use.

Your definition of unfun or fun is clearly different than mine. I despise cone of fire, unless said weapons is LBX.

[Tiewolf]

Curccu, on 07 February 2018 - 03:30 AM, said:

Your definition of unfun or fun is clearly different than mine. I despise cone of fire, unless said weapons is LBX.

Did you understand it? E.g. If your alpha is below let's say 50dmg. Nothing happens no shake. Above 50 it starts to get more and more difficult to aim. At close range it's easy but then you can't wait in save cover to cool down. You have to test it at PTS and take a high enough X for dmg to keep laser vomiting fun but not as op as it is. Even if you buff the rest of the weapon systems clan laser vomit will dominate without a reasonable solution.

[Nighthawk513]

If reticle shake was a predictable pattern, I might be interested. Given that it isn't, and most of the skill involved in lasers is holding the burn on a single component, it makes 0 sense to have random shakes on mechs that go above some arbitrary limit.
We already have ghost heat. The poke and back off playstyle us a symptom of it being the most efficient way to cause damage without taking it. You apply your idea to lasers, well, now people go back to PPC Gauss, since cooling down after the alpha would be what they are doing anyway, and you can actually hit the same component with that versus spreading the shot over half the mech at midrange.

[aardappelianen]

Ghost laser duration the more lasers you fire simultaneously the the longer they burn.
Something like +1% per small laser 2.5% for mediums and 5% for large to simulate your capacitor being overdrawn

This would weaken lasers ability poke and dump high damage while strengthening their ability to compensate for bad aim by allowing more time to correct

The incrased facetime would leave projectile user more time to get a good shot in so that exchanges become more equal

[N0ni]

Tiewolf, on 07 February 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

E.g. If your alpha is below let's say 50dmg. Nothing happens no shake. Above 50 it starts to get more and more difficult to aim.

Just going to state for the record as far as clan tech goes 50 damage equals to 2 HLL/2 cERML or 2 cLPL/3 cERML/1 cERSL.

Both of which are mediocre in comparison to what we have now, imo i'd just stick in PPCs to avoid the shake effect.

[Curccu]

Tiewolf, on 07 February 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

Did you understand it? E.g. If your alpha is below let's say 50dmg. Nothing happens no shake. Above 50 it starts to get more and more difficult to aim. At close range it's easy but then you can't wait in save cover to cool down. You have to test it at PTS and take a high enough X for dmg to keep laser vomiting fun but not as op as it is. Even if you buff the rest of the weapon systems clan laser vomit will dominate without a reasonable solution.

This system would just buff different large (up to that proposed 50dmg) alpha styles, IS ERLL/LL/LPL and CLAN MPL/LPL/ERLL vomit would become better. Mixed laser/gauss vomit would be weaker for sure.
We would have 3HPPC/5PPC/3cERPPC boats without ghost heat spamming those frontloaded alphas.

[PocketYoda]

If you fire more than two lasers your mech explodes and takes out a quarter of a mile radius of the game areas including anything nearby you, and you lose 100 000 cbils..

Edited by Samial, 07 February 2018 - 04:24 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Samial, on 07 February 2018 - 04:24 AM, said:

If you fire more than two lasers your mech explodes and takes out a quarter of a mile radius of the game areas including anything nearby you, and you lose 100 000 cbils..

the best suggestion so far.

I might add, there should be a special tier enabled by a checkbox for the players who dont like their shiny mech scratched. And in there they can enjoy their invulnerable Voltron experience and shoot each other with one medium laser.

[ROSS-128]

Since when were our mechs equipped with Holtzman shields?

But nah, this reticule shake thing sounds too weird and arbitrary, ghost heat is already weird and arbitrary enough. Though 50 would be an amusing number, since there would be great weeping and gnashing of teeth among the Clans, while IS generally wouldn't notice.

[Arend]

I'm so tired of that Nerf this, Nerf that ********, all this constant cries for Nerfs caused this stale Vomit Meta we have now, everything else has been nerfed so much it isnt useable/fun anymore!

[Burke IV]

Arend, on 07 February 2018 - 05:06 AM, said:

I'm so tired of that Nerf this, Nerf that ********, all this constant cries for Nerfs caused this stale Vomit Meta we have now, everything else has been nerfed so much it isnt useable/fun anymore!

Im convinced that right from the very beginning that a certain % of "experts" were feeding PGI stupid ideas just out of mischief.

[kesmai]

F... nerfs.
Penalize with heatscale.
Maybe reduce agility and speed by 20% if above 80% heat.
But just maybe.
+ if pgi does that, keep it as simple as possible.

[process]

With energy weapons, you pay for damage with heat. Drop the heat cap to 30 and you immediately solve the high-laser-alpha issue. This game doesn't need any more unfun behind the scenes mechanics.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Daily reminder that other weapons need to be buffed up to where lasers are, lasers don't need to be brought down further.

People just don't understand how the meta works, there are many levels of bad, there's like the 9 circles of bad going down worse and worse, if you nerf something it just drops down to the next best thing, no matter how bad it is. All you do by nerfing is effectively kill off a playstyle or build.

Meanwhile by buffing those things stuck in the pits of Tartarus of bad you bring back long dead playstyles and builds like some necromancer and have them fight for their place in the meta once more.