Jump to content

A Community-Driven Balance Update


1125 replies to this topic

#741 Gas Guzzler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 14,270 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Central Coast

Posted 11 February 2018 - 11:40 PM

View PostFleeb the Mad, on 11 February 2018 - 11:00 PM, said:


Rational arguments tend to be logical with supporting information.

For example; as stated twice already, a gauss + PPC combination necessitates the rebalancing of other long range ghost heat groups. You can keep skirting around that, but the rest of what you've presented boils down to 'I want' with no substance. But if we're talking specifics, I believe the Timber Wolf was irrelevant in general before the Night Gyr hit the field. Given that gauss + 2PPC combination never existed in vacuum with its better alternatives barred by ghost heat, I'm still rather skeptical. That's even before we mention that all the current dominant high alpha builds operate at closer ranges. They'll still be there, but they won't be trading at 600m. Are they going to get replaced? Debateable. Are the other long range options going to be made irrelevant? Quite possibly. That's a balance problem.

The bigger issue is that it creates more problems than it solves. You're not even trying to propose alternatives or solutions to any of those things, such as that combination also being rather obviously Clan favorable. That sort of stuff is fairly important and relevant to any sort of balancing effort. Particularly one that's supposedly attempting to view weapons independent of the dominant chassis and quirks.


In not skirting around re doing long range ghost heat groups, I just don't see a need just because Gauss-PPC comes back into the game. Quad ER PPC loadouts were already favorable over dual PPC dual Gauss for long range before ghost heat was added to that combo, so...? There was also a time when ER PPc Gauss couldn't compete with ER LL boats. Ghost heat isn't what is holding back alternatives to PPC Gauss... Just because you say we would need to re do long range ghost heat groups doesn't mean we actually do. I have supported all of my arguments with information regarding other loadouts that were out performing PPC Gauss before ghost heat was added, but they all get ignored for "Oh God please no, it can never come back, no nooo it must stay dead".

And yeah, I do want it because I want a more diverse battlefield, with more options to choose from not less, and I firmly believe that if they flipped a switch and upped the ghost heat level to 3 of that combo tomorrow, there would not be a huge shift, other than giga laser alpha builds having something to worry about more. I mean, yes at first a bunch of people would probably hop into PPC Gauss mechs but once the novelty wore off it would level out nicely.

#742 Khobai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 23,969 posts

Posted 11 February 2018 - 11:42 PM

View PostMystere, on 11 February 2018 - 11:37 PM, said:


Then maybe, just maybe, one of the first goals of this "community-driven balance" effort is to reduce such arbitrary magic rules. Right?


how would you make ghost heat less arbitrary?

energy draw? energy draw would at least treat all weapon combinations consistently.

#743 Requiemking

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Solitary
  • The Solitary
  • 2,480 posts
  • LocationStationed at the Iron Dingo's Base on Dumassas

Posted 12 February 2018 - 12:38 AM

View PostKhobai, on 11 February 2018 - 11:42 PM, said:


how would you make ghost heat less arbitrary?

energy draw? energy draw would at least treat all weapon combinations consistently.

How about ScarecrowES's system? It seems pretty fair.

#744 Palfatreos

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • 398 posts

Posted 12 February 2018 - 03:39 AM

one thing did stand out for me the big difference between is and clan uac jamchance/jamduration. accros the board clan uac has 2% more jam chance, 0.5 sec jam chance while they still shoot slugs instead 1 bullet. Personaly i would like see jamchance of clan lower then is and keep the duration so they just no the same.

#745 Its my first day

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • 59 posts

Posted 12 February 2018 - 04:16 AM

I'm not going to get into specifics-mainly because I haven't looked at them much- but I will say that its in PGIs best interest to do what they can to open up the game to a variety of builds and weapons. For instance, on the sale now, the only mechs I'd want to spend any real or in game money on would be the wolfhound, Hellbringer and to a lesser extent the maddog. Mechs with a terrible reputation, like the Trebuchet, clearly need to have something done so that they're considered to be fun to play, even if not considered competitive.

#746 Andi Nagasia

    Volunteer Moderator

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 5,982 posts

Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:44 AM

View PostRequiemking, on 12 February 2018 - 12:38 AM, said:

How about ScarecrowES's system? It seems pretty fair.

but his/her system is just MWO +TT Heat Scale, with Energy Draw Themed Secondary Heat bar,
but near the end it says that to balance weapon Boating it has a GH type system but with Cooldowns,
so all in all its GhostHeat getting replaced with GhostCooldowns, not that theirs anything wrong with that,

#747 Kin3ticX

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The People's Hero
  • The People
  • 2,926 posts
  • LocationSalt Mines of Puglandia

Posted 12 February 2018 - 03:02 PM

the balance podcast is up

#748 Gas Guzzler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 14,270 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Central Coast

Posted 12 February 2018 - 03:04 PM

View PostKin3ticX, on 12 February 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

the balance podcast is up


ARE THEY SAVING PEEP-GOOSE????

#749 Humpday

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Pharaoh
  • The Pharaoh
  • 1,463 posts

Posted 12 February 2018 - 03:13 PM

Also, I really hope PGI has the sense to let that poll get in to the overall count of around 1500-2000 voters or else the sample size is way too small to be representative of player base as a whole.

No knee jerk patching PGI please.

View PostKin3ticX, on 12 February 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

the balance podcast is up



link?

nvmd, found it

#750 Kin3ticX

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The People's Hero
  • The People
  • 2,926 posts
  • LocationSalt Mines of Puglandia

Posted 12 February 2018 - 03:14 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 12 February 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:


ARE THEY SAVING PEEP-GOOSE????



I wouldnt count on it

#751 Andi Nagasia

    Volunteer Moderator

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 5,982 posts

Posted 12 February 2018 - 04:24 PM

View PostHumpday, on 12 February 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

Also, I really hope PGI has the sense to let that poll get in to the overall count of around 1500-2000 voters or else the sample size is way too small to be representative of player base as a whole.

No knee jerk patching PGI please.

never reach that high, their are Polls that have been active for years that have never broken 1000,
so i think expecting a count that high is abit unrealistic, for these Forums at least,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 12 February 2018 - 04:27 PM.


#752 Gas Guzzler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 14,270 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Central Coast

Posted 12 February 2018 - 04:27 PM

View PostKin3ticX, on 12 February 2018 - 03:14 PM, said:



I wouldnt count on it


They didn't even talk about it. Posted Image

#753 dario03

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Galaxy Commander
  • 3,629 posts

Posted 12 February 2018 - 04:50 PM

They did mention giving some slight buffs to poptarting though.

#754 Gas Guzzler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 14,270 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Central Coast

Posted 12 February 2018 - 04:53 PM

View Postdario03, on 12 February 2018 - 04:50 PM, said:

They did mention giving some slight buffs to poptarting though.


That's cool. The Summoner is already a great poptart.

I really just miss the ER PPC Gauss Timber, and want to be able to run PPC-Gauss combos on IS mechs like the Nightstar and loyalty Victor.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 12 February 2018 - 04:53 PM.


#755 Throe

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 1,028 posts

Posted 12 February 2018 - 04:53 PM

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 04:30 PM.


#756 The6thMessenger

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Nova Captain
  • Nova Captain
  • 8,104 posts
  • LocationFrom a distance in an Urbie with a HAG, delivering righteous fury to heretics.

Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:07 PM

https://soundcloud.c...164-paul-inouye

Here's the podcast.

#757 Jarl Dane

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Point Commander
  • Point Commander
  • 1,803 posts
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationJarnFolk Cluster

Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:13 PM

TAROGATO, UNFURL THE SPREADSHEETS! NAVID, MAN THE OARS! METACHANIC SHIMBER TIMBERS OR SOMETHING! BEAR CLAW LOOK TO THE HORIZON!

WE ARE COMING FOR YOU PGI! ONE COMMUNITY-DRIVEN NUMBER AT A TIME!

Edited by Mech The Dane, 12 February 2018 - 05:23 PM.


#758 Gas Guzzler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 14,270 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Central Coast

Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:19 PM

We should start by deciding whether we should balance LRMs in Tier 4 - Tier 5, or in Tier 1.

#759 Cy Mitchell

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Privateer
  • The Privateer
  • 2,688 posts

Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:22 PM

I heard laser, UAC, and Gauss changes coming in Feb and Mar. Coolshots and Strikes are taking a hit.

Small incremental changes will continue. Maintaining TTK is a top priority.

#760 Burke IV

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Guardian
  • Guardian
  • 1,230 posts

Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:24 PM

So all of this is about fixing new player retention? New players dont like nasty people killing them and keep on leaving? :)





6 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 6 guests, 0 anonymous users