79 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

topgun505, on 08 February 2018 - 08:52 PM, said:

Large lasers (esp clan) have a REALLY long duration. Twist it off man.

cHLLs have greater Dam/tick than isLPLs, if you weren't aware

[ramp4ge]

Mcgral18, on 09 February 2018 - 01:33 AM, said:

cHLLs have greater Dam/tick than isLPLs, if you weren't aware

They also have a much longer cooldown--2.55 seconds longer cooldown, which means less potential ticks over an allotted period of time, and 150 meters less range, which means you aren't doing optimal damage/tick from as great a distance.

They also generate 60% more heat, and you aren't generating damage/tick if you aren't firing because you're at 90% heat.

[Verilligo]

ramp4ge, on 09 February 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

They also have a much longer cooldown--2.55 seconds longer cooldown, which means less potential ticks over an allotted period of time, and 150 meters less range, which means you aren't doing optimal damage/tick from as great a distance.

They also generate 60% more heat, and you aren't generating damage/tick if you aren't firing because you're at 90% heat.

Actually the HLL has more range than the isLPL. Heat isn't always a huge issue, either, given Clan mechs can dissipate heat much better than IS mechs.

[ramp4ge]

HLL = 450, LPL = 600 according to Smurfy.

I don't have the game client in front of me.

Heat is always an issue when boating lasers since it's the one limiting factor of laser builds. The LPL is more heat/damage efficient.

Edited by ramp4ge, 09 February 2018 - 12:39 PM.

[Mole]

Can we just make it into a meme right now about 10+ large lasers? Please?

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 09 February 2018 - 01:33 AM, said:

cHLLs have greater Dam/tick than isLPLs, if you weren't aware

How many ticks are in a laser burn and how fast do they propagate?

Because if you do damage over duration, the isLPL is still higher being 14.9 DPS vs. 11.6.

ramp4ge, on 09 February 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

HLL = 450, LPL = 600 according to Smurfy.

I don't have the game client in front of me.

Heat is always an issue when boating lasers since it's the one limiting factor of laser builds. The LPL is more heat/damage efficient.

Max range on cLPL is 840, HLL is 900.

isLPL is 365/730.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 09 February 2018 - 12:46 PM.

[Verilligo]

ramp4ge, on 09 February 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

HLL = 450, LPL = 600 according to Smurfy.

I don't have the game client in front of me.

Heat is always an issue when boating lasers since it's the one limiting factor of laser builds. The LPL is more heat/damage efficient.

600 would be the cLPL, not the isLPL. He's saying the isLPL at 10 damage over 0.67s do less damage per tick of laser than the HLL at 18 damage over 1.55s.

[ramp4ge]

Ah, appologies. I see the IsLPL now. Missed that before.

[Humpday]

How did you eat a complete +80 HLL LPL alpha to the chest?
You must have been standing completely still, alone and in the open because its extremely hard to get caught like that.
Standing still while 1.5seconds of burn eats away your armor, that is 100% your fault.

Keep moving, use your torso.

Also that supernova build is trash, you can't sustain combat in it for long...its a troll build...you just got caught.

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 09 February 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

How many ticks are in a laser burn and how fast do they propagate?

Because if you do damage over duration, the isLPL is still higher being 14.9 DPS vs. 11.6.

Clam LPL
my bad

[Steel Claws]

NRP, on 08 February 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

Are you sure you weren't being focused by multiple enemy mechs?

I don't think many mechs other than a Direwolf can even mount 10 LLs, and even then none can alpha them without exploding.

I think you might have just had a bad match. If you did get alpha'd by a 10 LL Direwolf, just know that he had a meltdown about the same time you did.

This is what I think also. Firing more 6 or more clan ERL is pretty much instant suicide but I've seen mechs up to heavies at 100% get simultaneous alphas from 2-3 mechs and go down. It usually seems like one mech did it but there is almost always more than one if lasers were involved. I remember one night Bullet Sponge and I were both running 6-8 ERML/MPL with a couple LPL thrown in clan heavies and we did that back to back on 3 mechs. We both hit them in the same place at the same time and the funny part is that we weren't coordinating it. We have just played the game together enough that we know how each other operate.

I find lasers somewhat unreliable. Far to often you have to put shot after shot into a mech to bring it down and you usually start pushing the redline long before they are ready to pop. Most players will spread the damage from the burn time too much. Sure you can sometimes do well with lasers but I find ballistics more dangerous. Pinpoint damage is always a wonderful thing especially when combined with cockpit shake and the blinding explosion flash. Might just be my opinion but I seem to have good luck with them or die to them often enough.

That said, I have seen a few Thunderbolts recently and have one myself that sports 3 ERL and 4 ERML that can erase 50+ points of armor in a single alfa though - and it has the sinks to fire two of those back to back. Pretty deadly to anything that stands still too long.

Edited by Steel Claws, 09 February 2018 - 07:32 PM.

[PAYWALL]

topgun505, on 08 February 2018 - 08:52 PM, said:

Large lasers (esp clan) have a REALLY long duration. Twist it off man. Now ... a dual Heavy Gauss mech on the other hand..... OUCH. And they don't even have a huge cooldown (at least, not as bad as I thought it was going to be when I tried one). And PGI increased their range to boot (not a very good decision imho, but that's just me). The only good thing about those builds is they are slow enough that you should be extend away from them. But if you walk around the corner into one ... just, ouch.

I think it was the right decision to increase their range. They just came with too many drawbacks to be effective for their immense weight/slots. If you run straight into a slow lingering annihilator, mauler or cyclops with two big *** barrels pointing at your light mech it's just bad luck (or map awareness). On the other hand you can do really nice things with a single heavy gauss on a grid iron now. And with the cooldown reduction to light gauss you can finally bring that niche quad light gauss Mauler and have great fun at 1000m on FW defense on Taiga. ^^

[Mole]

PAYWALL, on 09 February 2018 - 10:05 PM, said:

I think it was the right decision to increase their range. They just came with too many drawbacks to be effective for their immense weight/slots. If you run straight into a slow lingering annihilator, mauler or cyclops with two big *** barrels pointing at your light mech it's just bad luck (or map awareness). On the other hand you can do really nice things with a single heavy gauss on a grid iron now. And with the cooldown reduction to light gauss you can finally bring that niche quad light gauss Mauler and have great fun at 1000m on FW defense on Taiga. ^^

I saw a Warhammer running Light Gauss today and a Jagermech running Light Gauss yesterday. Is the LGR good now that it had its cooldown reduced? This week is the first time I've ever seen that weapon used since the first few days of civil war tech.

Edited by Mole, 09 February 2018 - 10:23 PM.

[El Bandito]

Asym, on 08 February 2018 - 05:39 PM, said:

True, we are stuck alright.

Meta by definition is the "strongest/extreme" application of game assets or tactics.... Troll build "meta" laser mechs, although possible, just ruin gameplay and encourage the ever evolving arms race most games experience.... In this case, and in the case of several other forum articles of experiences with un-explainable sudden death, new players just get blind-sided by weapons mixes they never thought possible.... I surely have. "Meta" and the pursuit of the maximum "anything" because it is possible is the real issue because over doing anything upsets gameplay balance. Take a "crab" rush..... Take the 10 laser troll build..... anything that extreme isn't good for the community..... That's all I am saying. A lack of meta infers that balance has been achieved somehow...

1. Meta in MWO is not about the "extreme" it is about what is most "popular", and "effective". 10 large laser build is certainly not popular, or effective. And it certainly does not cause an arms race. Only thing it can cause is ridicule.

2. As for builds that are unusual, one of MWO's selling point is the vast customization it offers. Let people run their troll builds if they want--that will certainly not help their team to win.

3. Crab rush (or Assassin rush, or Linebacker rush), are tried and true meta tactic. Can be lame, but it is very effective and weight efficient. Don't ever group it together with idiotic builds like 10 large lasers. Cause that would be very much misguided.

Mole, on 09 February 2018 - 10:23 PM, said:

I saw a Warhammer running Light Gauss today and a Jagermech running Light Gauss yesterday. Is the LGR good now that it had its cooldown reduced? This week is the first time I've ever seen that weapon used since the first few days of civil war tech.

People are simply trying the LGR out post buff, but due to 2x max penalty, LGR is still way inferior build than regular dual Gauss build. It does not win trades. If the Jager had 3xUAC5s, it could easily triple the damage out put. And there are very few maps where the player can use the full range of LGR.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 February 2018 - 11:55 PM.

[riverslq]

Verilligo, on 08 February 2018 - 08:49 AM, said:

You cannot, by the very definition of the term, exterminate meta. Meta is only the most effective tactic available and there will ALWAYS be a meta for certain situations with the tools and platform provided. In order to do what you want, you would have to dynamically nerf a player based on how well they're performing in each individual game. Everything about that sentence is stupid.

For people with no imagination and no sense of fun.

Everything about your quote is equally stupid.

[Y E O N N E]

Mole, on 09 February 2018 - 10:23 PM, said:

I saw a Warhammer running Light Gauss today and a Jagermech running Light Gauss yesterday. Is the LGR good now that it had its cooldown reduced? This week is the first time I've ever seen that weapon used since the first few days of civil war tech.

Serviceable in QP, yes. Good, no. It's too niche to be good, and the WHM-6R and MAD-5M are really the only 'Mechs in the game that can run it well outside of that niche. Within the niche (extreme range power position combined with ERLL), the WHM-BW/6R, RFL-3N/3C, MAD, and NSR are its top runners.

[Athom83]

Mole, on 09 February 2018 - 10:23 PM, said:

I saw a Warhammer running Light Gauss today and a Jagermech running Light Gauss yesterday. Is the LGR good now that it had its cooldown reduced? This week is the first time I've ever seen that weapon used since the first few days of civil war tech.

Its decent, more 'fun' than "good". More useful as a "secondary" weapon to be used with a high heat generating group of weapons (6 ERMLs/ 3 LPL/etc). Found a really fun TBolt build that is basically just 5 ERML and a LG.

[Seranov]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 February 2018 - 12:45 AM, said:

Serviceable in QP, yes. Good, no. It's too niche to be good, and the WHM-6R and MAD-5M are really the only 'Mechs in the game that can run it well outside of that niche. Within the niche (extreme range power position combined with ERLL), the WHM-BW/6R, RFL-3N/3C, MAD, and NSR are its top runners.

Athom83, on 11 February 2018 - 04:59 PM, said:

Its decent, more 'fun' than "good". More useful as a "secondary" weapon to be used with a high heat generating group of weapons (6 ERMLs/ 3 LPL/etc). Found a really fun TBolt build that is basically just 5 ERML and a LG.

You've got me curious. Which Nightstar and Thunderbolt do you run those on?

[Y E O N N E]

Seranov, on 11 February 2018 - 05:03 PM, said:

You've got me curious. Which Nightstar and Thunderbolt do you run those on?

NSR-9J

You can go to 3x ERLL, and all three will be in-line with the cockpit, but I think I prefer it this way.

[Trenchbird]

Mole, on 09 February 2018 - 12:40 PM, said:

Can we just make it into a meme right now about 10+ large lasers? Please?

B33F already did it, my man.

Although, it sucks that all the joke builds you can make nowadays seem to be copies of things that are already well-known to be started by one person. Shame. (Except for TAGboats, those just... Exist.)

Edited by Catten Hart, 11 February 2018 - 05:13 PM.