366 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

I really don't know how to respond to this thread other than this;


Are you really making a thread on here because someone on the internet offended you? Really? Do you realize how low this is?

Just stop it man, it's a game, people have opinions. It happens, oh ******* well. >:-(

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Kroete, on 10 February 2018 - 08:49 PM, said:

Does it pay your bills?
Helps in getting with the ladys?

Or is it just something virtual thats not recognized and doesnt matter, outside of the mwo bubble?

>a hobby is supposed to pay bills and get you the ladies

I think this is what a job and charm is for. Most people have hobbies of various types that a certain bubble of other people is into. For some its speedrunning games or being at a pro level in them, for others its stuff like football or hunting, some people collect cards or make model trains or whatever. Most things people do aren't recognized and otherwise don't seem to matter, we just do them.

[blood4blood]

I skipped some of this thread, but uh...wait. Is someone thinking video game skill is going to help you get lucky?


........................................................................same generation that eats detergent.


Damn.

[Kodyn]

Wow...this thread is a little...illuminating I guess. As a highly mediocre player who has pissed off a lot of people on the forums at various times by being too harsh, I've never even had my exceedingly mediocre stats thrown in my face...so you really must have had some poor arguments to cause someone to whip them out on you.(Or you simply encountered that sort of player who's going to throw stats around no matter the argument, and can be ignored.)

My stats show exactly the kind of player I am, and I like that. I like to see them so I know where I fall, and I know when MM is working or not when I see people whose stats I'm aware of on the other team, etc. Jarl's list is a great tool, and I for one appreciate the work and effort that went into it. As far as I'm concerned stats and leaderboards are a pretty integrated and vital part of any online PvP game, to remove them seems fairly absurd, and caters to one of the worst personality types in gaming. If you can't handle it, don't play PvP games, or go play ones that fit your standard for not hurting your feelings. I'm not saying this to be mean, but as legitimate advice. Of course a PvP game with competitive modes, especially one that's niche like MWO is going to have some e-preening. It's just something you have to get used to, learn to ignore or avoid the game entirely.

There's so many real issues in MWO that PGI could address, this is simply not one of them.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Kroete, on 10 February 2018 - 08:49 PM, said:

Does it pay your bills?
Helps in getting with the ladys?

Or is it just something virtual thats not recognized and doesnt matter, outside of the mwo bubble?

Why it have to at first place? It helps me spend my free time in enjoyable way and I made shitload of friends IRL through this game. Just yesterday we had our clan meeting in bar which gave me a lot of thoughts on how to live further.

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 11 February 2018 - 12:47 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Scurro, on 10 February 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

Creator of The Jarl's List here,
I mainly created The Jarl's List because I work in IT and wanted to learn more about php and sql. SQL is very common in network services like WSUS and uniFLOW and I actually learned immensely from this project.

Secondly, I wanted to make a leaderboard as almost every competitive multiplayer game has one and PGI leaderboards were only monthly. I figured that a leaderboard would be a great opportunity to learn.

I have had a few people thanked me for the leaderboard because it gives them a goal to work towards while still playing.

You made one of the most useful tools available to players in the game. All due props.

PGI should give you a custom animation pimp-walk and bow chica wow wow warhorn.

Edited by MischiefSC, 11 February 2018 - 06:44 AM.

[Mystere]

cougurt, on 10 February 2018 - 09:34 PM, said:

really getting sick of the whole "w-well, i play bad on purpose!" nonsense. even if that actually is the case, that doesn't make you any better than someone who's just genuinely bad. if you really didn't care about your stats then you wouldn't be here attempting to justify your poor performance. all i'm seeing are weak excuses.

Bite me!

[Revis Volek]

The Lighthouse, on 09 February 2018 - 01:12 PM, said:

This is not exactly first time, and I think a lot of non-T1 players with less than 1 kdr ratio are probably encountering this issue all the time, even in this forum,

So the internet was mean to you, sorry to hear that. I suggest you thicken that skin up a bit my friend.


You dont even avg over a 300MS on any of the 3 accounts, its not bad but its not that good either. Just saying you get more kills then you die doesn't mean much in this game. I can wait till the last few mins of games and run around and steal 3-5 kills every match. Doesn't show any skill measurement or ability to run around and land a scratch of dmg to finish things off.

Also your survive rates are pretty low, you may be better then 80% of the game but once you get below 70% skill level in this game its pretty much terrible. Id say on par with letting my dog pilot. I derp around A LOT in this game in my urbies and terrible IS lights i also play metric crap ton of lobby matches for comp stuff so i cant see this being a valid excuse.

Edited by Revis Volek, 11 February 2018 - 07:29 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Mystere, on 09 February 2018 - 02:16 PM, said:

In that case, make the leaderboard have a public/private toggle. The e-peen wielding players can then wave their e-peens to their hearts' delight.

That's a very sound compromise.

I love how you ONLY think e-peens are looking at the stats, how about those of us that just like to get better?


So there is no other camps in this fight? Just e-peen or no peen? We cant have varying degrees of people who like to use useful information. No, heaven forbid someone wants to reflect on themselves and what they have done in this game or any thing that tracks there progress.


Shame on them for wanting to look at numbers, no, not just numbers but OFFENSIVE numbers. Ones that take that little house of lies you have built around yourselves to keep you feeling safe and burns it to the ground. I say bring the leader boards on and let everyone see them every day. Make it the first thing we see, how far you climbed or fell since the last time your played.

Would put a lot of the clowns in their place if you couldn't hide from how bad you really are.

[Mystere]

Revis Volek, on 11 February 2018 - 07:34 AM, said:

I love how you ONLY think e-peens are looking at the stats, how about those of us that just like to get better?


So there is no other camps in this fight? Just e-peen or no peen? We cant have varying degrees of people who like to use useful information. No, heaven forbid someone wants to reflect on themselves and what they have done in this game or any thing that tracks there progress.


Shame on them for wanting to look at numbers, no, not just numbers but OFFENSIVE numbers. Ones that take that little house of lies you have built around yourselves to keep you feeling safe and burns it to the ground. I say bring the leader boards on and let everyone see them every day. Make it the first thing we see, how far you climbed or fell since the last time your played.

Would put a lot of the clowns in their place if you couldn't hide from how bad you really are.

Where did I say ONLY stat-whoring e-peen wielders look at stats? Besides, context is everything.

Or did I hit a nerve?

Edited by Mystere, 11 February 2018 - 08:02 AM.

[nehebkau]

blood4blood, on 10 February 2018 - 10:33 PM, said:

I skipped some of this thread, but uh...wait. Is someone thinking video game skill is going to help you get lucky?


........................................................................same generation that eats detergent.


Damn.

Thread win

[Revis Volek]

Mystere, on 11 February 2018 - 08:01 AM, said:

Where did I say ONLY stat-whoring e-peen wielders look at stats? Besides, context is everything.

Or did I hit a nerve?

You cant hit robots let alone nerves.


Color me unimpressed.

[Mystere]

Revis Volek, on 11 February 2018 - 11:08 AM, said:

You cant hit robots let alone nerves.

Color me unimpressed.

Ooohhhh! I did hit a nerve.

Edited by Mystere, 11 February 2018 - 11:13 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Mystere, on 11 February 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

Ooohhhh! I did hit a nerve.

Whatever helps ya sleep at night kid.

[Zergling]

Koniving, on 10 February 2018 - 09:06 PM, said:

Its a common phenomena. Mine get used to contradict me quite a bit.
Help a new player. "You shouldn't be helping new players your stats are terribad."
Suggest a balance change. "You suck. Herp-derp look at your stats."

No offence intended, but that is because you sometimes post advice or suggestions that are counter-productive, incorrect or flawed in some way.

People are using stats as an argument from authority (to say that they know the game better than you do), in a subjective opinion discussion.

[Vxheous]

Koniving, on 10 February 2018 - 09:06 PM, said:

Its a common phenomena. Mine get used to contradict me quite a bit.
Help a new player. "You shouldn't be helping new players your stats are terribad."
Suggest a balance change. "You suck. Herp-derp look at your stats."
Tell someone about a workaround to a bug. "You don't have any right to tell people about workarounds because stats."

Still not sure how stats qualify me or disqualify me from giving a hardware workaround, but it's happened.
And I'm pretty open about the fact that I tank my stats.

And my stats do not reflect my skill as one might see here, my point and click skills are pretty good when I actually try, even through thick fog without identifying markers.

Zergling, on 11 February 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

No offence intended, but that is because you sometimes post advice or suggestions that are counter-productive, incorrect or flawed in some way.

People are using stats as an argument from authority (to say that they know the game better than you do), in a subjective opinion discussion.

It also doesn't help that he posts Videos from 2012/2013 to prove that he's good at this game

[Koniving]

Vxheous, on 11 February 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:

It also doesn't help that he posts Videos from 2012/2013 to prove that he's good at this game

I don't have many recent videos, and those are from times when I actually played the game. When enemies always had either 2 twin-man groups or a group of 3 or 4 players, in which one had to be a LOT better to go up against them. At the time, you had to be able to counter DELAYED CONVERGENCE, rather than this pinpoint instant **** we get now. You had to be able to handle CRIPPLING LOW HEAT THRESHOLDS... where in 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017 you could get thresholds of over 120 and after the new skill tree, still over 100... back in 2012 and 2013 the highest possible was less than 90 and that's if you had a single weapon and boated nothing but double heatsinks in every slot or nearly 50 tons in single heatsinks. We didn't have **** easy back then and thus it is a FAR better representation of skill than anything today.

I can do more recent videos, but stuff for today is more about who has a better skill tree, who has more ******** quirks in their favor, etc. In other words, No. One. Should. Judge. Skill. by what we can do now with today's game.


This one I'm proud of (the Rifleman) because there are only 4 nodes taken, the bare minimum to get advanced zoom. This is still true today.

Orion 2017.

Hunchback 4H 2017
working alongside pugs.

Hunchback 4H 2017
working solo amongst pugs.

There's more, as well, such as this LRM Archer with 2 NORMAL SRM-2s that kill multiple lights that try to swarm me. This one's before the "skillz", and because of that it better reflects actual skill than perhaps later videos.

But today's **** is easy crap. You weren't mixed with the best at completely random. Didn't have to go solo against a 4 man group. Didn't have to face 8 assaults without a single assault or heavy to your name, didn't always have double heatsinks or even full health when you started a match. That's when you find true tests of skill.

Today it's point a mouse cursor and tap the button. You won. Or you didn't because they spent a lot of skill nodes into magical weightless armor + god tier quirks because PGI's stats say the mech is underused, when it was superior to other mechs even after being nerfed 5 or 6 times in a row and thus it was shunned by the meta because "nerfed things ain't meta" regardless of how good it actually is.

[Khobai]

Quote

People are using stats as an argument from authority (to say that they know the game better than you do), in a subjective opinion discussion.

People with better stats dont always know the game better though. They just know how to pad their stats better by playing in groups with other good players.

Someone who plays solo is always going to have worse stats than someone who only plays in groups and can selectively weed out the bad players by only inviting good players into the group.

Also different players derive fun in different ways. Stats dont mean anything to some players who just want to have fun playing win or lose. Where stats, achivements, and always winning are how other people have fun. But people who dont care about stats arnt any less entitled to an opinion on how to make the game more fun for them.

Stats are utterly meaningless. Thats why statshaming is so ridiculous and pathetic. Often the people who statshame are the people who dont know the game mechanics well enough to produce a coherent counterargument, and the best they can come up with is that their stats are better than yours lol.

Edited by Khobai, 11 February 2018 - 04:01 PM.

[Zergling]

Koniving, on 11 February 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

But today's **** is easy crap.

The difficulty is primarily set by other players. And with a shrinking playerbase that has led to an increased proportion of 'hardcore' to 'casual' players, the difficulty of the game has likely gone up.

Aside from that, logically if today's MWO is easier than the past, then shouldn't players be able to score better now?

Khobai, on 11 February 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

People with better stats dont always know the game better though. They just know how to pad their stats better by playing in groups with other good players.

Someone who plays solo is always going to have worse stats than someone who only plays in groups and can selectively weed out the bad players by only inviting good players into the group.

Also different players derive fun in different ways. Stats dont mean anything to some players who just want to have fun playing win or lose. Where stats, achivements, and always winning are how other people have fun. But people who dont care about stats arnt any less entitled to an opinion on how to make the game more fun for them.

Stats are utterly meaningless. Thats why statshaming is so ridiculous and pathetic. Often the people who statshame are the people who dont know the game mechanics well enough to produce a coherent counterargument, and the best they can come up with is that their stats are better than yours lol.

Stat padding can only get a player so far; they still need actual skill to produce high stats across the board.

Eg, take two players:
Player A is scoring 0.70 W/L, 0.50 K/D, 0.20 K/B and 150 average MS
Player B is scoring 3.00 W/L, 10.0 K/D, 3.0 K/B and 450 average MS.

Even is Player B is stat padding in group queue, they are still obviously a far superior player to A.
Even if Player A did the same sort of stat padding as player B, they still wouldn't achieve stats remotely on the same level.

If Player B were to tell Player A that they don't know what they are talking about when discussing some gameplay element or balance, then the argument of authority is clearly in favour of Player B.


To be fair, if Player B just uses stats first thing without trying to explain why Player A is wrong, it certainly could be considered a 'jerk-ish' move, because it doesn't tell Player A why they are wrong.
But if Player B first makes a factual and reasoned argument about why Player A is wrong, and Player A just goes "nuh uh, you're wrong because mah feelings", then Player B is fully justified to use an argument from authority.

And most of the time, this is how 'stats shaming' is used; only after a bad player making incorrect claims stubbornly refuses to admit they were wrong.

Edited by Zergling, 11 February 2018 - 04:53 PM.

[UnofficialOperator]

So many bads in this thread commenting, thinking that they are good players with very very bad stats.

I introduce you to the Dunning-Kruger effect

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 11 February 2018 - 05:18 PM.