366 replies to this topic

[- World Eater -]

Let's stop pretending that it's a "huge disservice" to the community when it's just you not wanting to be called out.

[Fleeb the Mad]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 09 February 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

Why would anyone hide it?

Bombast, on 09 February 2018 - 02:10 PM, said:

Why wouldn't we?

I wish it was displayed by default, actually. Not for stat shaming - To make it easier to see when MM has crapped itself.

Mostly it was a tongue in cheek comment about people disparaging the value of tier labels while actively displaying theirs. Obviously there's a contradiction here.

As for why some people don't show it, I figured the argument was a little self evident. There's for sure people who are embarrassed about not being 'leet' tier and having it used against them. There's also people who express the tier system is bunk and the labels don't mean anything. Not displaying a tier is the most straightforward affirmation of that.

So here's a better question. If there weren't convenient metrics to form snap opinions on posters, would you weight the things they say differently?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Fleeb the Mad, on 09 February 2018 - 06:42 PM, said:

So here's a better question. If there weren't convenient metrics to form snap opinions on posters, would you weight the things they say differently?

Generally I'd still go through the routine of telling them their opinion is stupid in slightly less blatant terms than that, and back up my conclusions with numbers as usual. Then they'd go on with the "w-well in my experience" bit but then I wouldn't have any numbers to show that their stats don't agree with how good they are saying they do in something, nor would I see their tier to know that they are going up against lower level opponents so their experience is biased. So I'd just disregard them.

Edited by Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, 09 February 2018 - 06:52 PM.

[Bombast]

Fleeb the Mad, on 09 February 2018 - 06:42 PM, said:

Mostly it was a tongue in cheek comment about people disparaging the value of tier labels while actively displaying theirs. Obviously there's a contradiction here.

I don't really see one. Displaying it isn't the same as saying its important.

Quote

As for why some people don't show it, I figured the argument was a little self evident.

Most people don't show it because it's off by default and they either don't know how to turn it on, or don't care enough to find out.

Quote

So here's a better question. If there weren't convenient metrics to form snap opinions on posters, would you weight the things they say differently?

Generally speaking, by the time stats come into play or are checked, the persons opinions are already suspect, if not already entirely discounted.

Using OPs reddit thread as an example, stats probably wouldn't have been brought up at all if he had suggested something less than a complete removal of ghost heat for one of the more feared (Rightfully or wrongly) weapon combos in the game and a whopping 100% increase in relevant cooldowns. People only checked because they were flabbergasted by the suggestion and were trying to figure it out.

[Mystere]

Novakaine, on 09 February 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

Who watches their stats?

At the very least, they are the very same people who look at other people's stats. <shrugs>

[El Bandito]

The Jarl's list has been nothing but positive for me, since a record of any kind propels me to tryhard even more.

Novakaine, on 09 February 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

Who watches their stats?

I do. All the time. Jarl's List, MWO leaderboards for QP and FP, and Mercstar leaderboards. I like being on top, or near it.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 February 2018 - 07:48 PM.

[Khobai]

this isnt even worth arguing about lol

anyone who tries to statshame someone is pathetic. and anyone who actually cares about stats is equally pathetic.

but if having published stats is truly making some people miserable just let them turn their stats off

[Zergling]

The r/OutreachHPG is basically 'zero moderation' for the most part, so I recommend not posting there if you don't want your stats mentioned.

As for stats, they are quite useful for tracking and measuring your own progress. I've given up on trying to increase my own stats (just not worth the stress for me), but there's no reason other players can't use stats to challenge themselves like that.

And stats are useful for quickly filtering bad opinions, and for understanding the context of the opinions a player is expressing.

Edited by Zergling, 09 February 2018 - 07:46 PM.

[ramp4ge]

Zergling, on 09 February 2018 - 07:43 PM, said:

The r/OutreachHPG is basically 'zero moderation' for the most part, so I recommend not posting there if you don't want your stats mentioned.

As for stats, they are quite useful for tracking and measuring your own progress. I've given up on trying to increase my own stats (just not worth the stress for me), but there's no reason other players can't use stats to challenge themselves like that.

And stats are useful for quickly filtering bad opinions, and for understanding the context of the opinions a player is expressing.

Zergling from Tonks?

[Zergling]

ramp4ge, on 09 February 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

Zergling from Tonks?

Yup, I still post in the old Thread. I usually only post here when I'm bored though.

Edited by Zergling, 09 February 2018 - 08:17 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

What really needs to happen is that arguments that boil down to "I'm right because my stats are better than yours" should be against forum rules.

I saw someone on another thread try to stat-shame another user because they had a disagreement on politics. It's childish and absurd.

[Khobai]

Kaeb Odellas, on 09 February 2018 - 09:15 PM, said:

What really needs to happen is that arguments that boil down to "I'm right because my stats are better than yours" should be against forum rules.

I saw someone on another thread try to stat-shame another user because they had a disagreement on politics. It's childish and absurd.

thats a good idea for an absolutely terrible movie. a futuristic dystopia where your value as a human being is determined solely by your stats and ladder ranking in MWO. like if your ranking is too low you cant vote and dont get food or medical services and have to eat rats.

Edited by Khobai, 09 February 2018 - 09:25 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Khobai, on 09 February 2018 - 09:24 PM, said:

thats a good idea for an absolutely terrible movie. a futuristic dystopia where your value as a human being is determined solely by your stats and ladder ranking in MWO. like if your ranking is too low you cant vote and dont get food or medical services and have to eat rats.

Have you heard of China's Social Credit System?

[Zergling]

Kaeb Odellas, on 09 February 2018 - 09:15 PM, said:

What really needs to happen is that arguments that boil down to "I'm right because my stats are better than yours" should be against forum rules.

Stat shaming does have one valid use: to shut down "I'm right because I say so" arguments, which are even more obnoxious.

[FupDup]

Kaeb Odellas, on 09 February 2018 - 09:28 PM, said:

Have you heard of China's Social Credit System?

...Wow.

[CainenEX]

wow you are pretty thin skinned. Grow a pair and get over it.

[Mole]

I have seen a few people throw someone's stats at their face before instead of actually submitting a counter-argument and basically say "git gud or your statement is false" but I've only seen that happen a couple times. It's really not that rampant that leaderboard stats are used abusively.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Zergling, on 09 February 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

Stat shaming does have one valid use: to shut down "I'm right because I say so" arguments, which are even more obnoxious.

I see far more "your stats are bad" ad-hominem attacks than anything like what you're describing.

Stat-shaming are stat-bragging are completely irrelevant to a discussion on balance or gameplay mechanics. It's possible to be bad at the game while understanding what parts of it are broken. Conversely you can be good at the game and have no understanding of how to fix it. If you can't formulate an argument without resorting to either, you have no place in the debate.

[Kin3ticX]

I looked at your reddit thread and it seemed historically mixed up and confused. Then you talk about increasing cooldowns "like how it was in other MW gamez" to like 9 or 10 seconds. Please no. Its why it was downvoted to oblivion. You could have easily just posted "bring back Gauss PPC" in the already existing megathread instead of going it alone.

so TLDR: If you post something like that very confused and going on about 10 second cooldowns.... people will look you up on Jarls list to see if dumb post jives with bad stats....and go....yeaaaaapp.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 09 February 2018 - 11:36 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

OP's main account current season stats aren't even bad. 1.24 K:D, 1.58 W:L, and 283 average match score over 506 games at time of writing? They're quite decent, actually.

Not that it matters.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 09 February 2018 - 11:44 PM.