145 replies to this topic

[fat4eyes]

We've been through this before: PPFLD is THE ONE THING that always gets nerfed down when it gets dominant. From the AC/PPC combos to the Gauss/PPC combos they'll always be nerfed down because they're a lot harder to counter than lasers, DPS or brawling. You can't out range them, you can't out-DPS them at range (because they poptart and you miss more often than they do), and above a certain skill level, you can't even out-brawl them (some people are good enough to shoot out the legs of a light at close range with dual gauss).

Choose your battles, even if you succeed getting PPFLD back it will just get nerfed down again.

[Johnathan Tanner]

fat4eyes, on 11 February 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

Choose your battles, even if you succeed getting PPFLD back it will just get nerfed down again.

Im willing to take that chance. I choose fun.

[Lord Farqwad]

Hell yes I want It back! I loved dropping a **** ton of damage on mechs 700+m away and them not being able to respond or know where it came from.
I can't give it 3 thumbs up or I would!

How soon can we go back to long range wrecking?

Please bring this back, I know a few people who WILL quit when it comes back and I want them gone!

[fat4eyes]

Johnathan Tanner, on 11 February 2018 - 06:59 PM, said:

Im willing to take that chance. I choose fun.

The problem with PPFLD is that when it does become dominant it is SO dominant that the only counter to it is itself. So everyone plays the same way. That, to me, is most definitely NOT fun.

[Johnathan Tanner]

fat4eyes, on 11 February 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

The problem with PPFLD is that when it does become dominant it is SO dominant that the only counter to it is itself. So everyone plays the same way. That, to me, is most definitely NOT fun.

But it wont become dominant. Not in this day and age.

[Sean Solo]

Ooh bb I want my goose ppc back!👌👌

[TheSteelRhino]

I agree that there are a LOT of balance issues, but with the extremely large alphas we already have...no.
What we are gonna end up with are 2 Gauss, plus 2 Clan ERPPC alphas now throwing 60 points pinpoint AT RANGE again.....

It will just emphasize the balance issues between Clan and IS, which are already complete BS anyways.

What I would suggest is get rid of the stupid charge time on the Gauss, OR change Gauss mechanics so that it cannot explode unless fully charged if we have to have the charge time.

Edited by TheSteelRhino, 11 February 2018 - 08:27 PM.

[Lizardman from Hollywood]

Take your comp meta and stuff it. 60+ point pinpoint alphas are the last thing the game needs. Who cares about a heat penalty, you will just pop out, alpha and then hide to cool, just like with 90+ point clan laser vomit. I'm so totally sorry that this game isn't 1 shot call of duty or cs:go. If you feel that is the play style that you are looking for then I invite you to go play those games. Or even better get all your comp friends together and cough up some coin and pay PGI for a moddable comp server that you can live out all your 1 shot no ghost heat 6 gauss fantasies on. This game is fairly true to TT play, and oh my fn god I know it drives the comp players nuts to hear TT mentioned. So no, I don't want to bring back gauss peep cheese and crackers.

Edited by Sephrus Shanadar, 11 February 2018 - 08:40 PM.

[Kamikaze Viking]

Khobai, on 11 February 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

lots of games have weapons like grenade launchers that allow noobs to sometimes kill veteran players.

Selectively quoting out of context from a video you admitted that you didn't even watch the whole thing, just skipped through it.

Totally not relevant to Ash's post you were replying to.

The example there in that video is the 'noob tube' rocket launcher that is effective for new players and decreases its effectiveness as skill increases. In MWO that weapon is.... LRM's.

Edited by Kamikaze Viking, 11 February 2018 - 08:47 PM.

[Kamikaze Viking]

TheSteelRhino, on 11 February 2018 - 08:25 PM, said:

I agree that there are a LOT of balance issues, but with the extremely large alphas we already have...no.
What we are gonna end up with are 2 Gauss, plus 2 Clan ERPPC alphas now throwing 60 points pinpoint AT RANGE again.....

With the large alphas we already have, what is the counter to them? there has to be one? Smaller yet ppfld long range alphas are a valid counter. As is closing range with high DPS dakka or Brawl. Its Rock, Paper, Scissors, but Rock was taken away as a viable option.

Sephrus Shanadar, on 11 February 2018 - 08:39 PM, said:

60+ point pinpoint alphas are the last thing the game needs.

You Misread the intention. we dont want Dual Gauss Dual PPC 60 point alphas, But we do want 1 gauss 2ppc or 2gauss 1PPC (ok some don't want the 2nd, but PGI have stated that code wise, we get both or neither).

We don't want them OP, but we don't want them Dead either. Somewhere in the middle please.

Edited by Kamikaze Viking, 11 February 2018 - 08:56 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Totally not relevant to Ash's post you were replying to.

You mean Ash's not relevant post that was 100% wrong?

I especially like the part where he starts blaming me for all the nerfs in the last 12 months

Nerfs which im on the record for opposing and speaking out against.

Nobody with a shred of common sense supported any of those nerfs.

Likewise bringing back long range PPFLD is also the completely wrong way to balance the game. Even this poll indicates 40% of players dont want it. And thats 40% despite the obvious bias of the poll, because the way its worded makes it sound like the opposition doesnt want PPC or Gauss to be viable weapons. Which is completely untrue.

You obviously shouldnt try to force something back into the game at this point that 40% of people who voted dont want.


Although Ive suggested a compromise that would give everyone partly what they want.

Dont allow gauss rifles to fire while jumpjetting. physically disable their ability to fire when in the air.

-You can have your x3 gauss/PPC, but only on the ground, not in the air (could still poptart with the PPCs though, just not the gauss).
-People who are concerned about poptarting dont have to worry about 45 damage poptarts
-We can unnerf Night Gyr agility since Night Gyrs poptarting for 30 damage isnt overpowered
-And gauss chargeup can be removed since the chargeup mostly exists to make poptarting with gauss harder (which would no longer be possible at all)

Thats seems pretty fair to me and should make everyone happy. Since everyone on both sides of the argument gets something, but not everything, they asked for.

Edited by Khobai, 11 February 2018 - 09:51 PM.

[Daltonator713]

We don’t need that **** back. I see your arguments of how it causes a disadvantage but we don’t need to return to dropping against 12 man premades where 2/3 of them are gauss ppc. It only benefits high skill players as it allows them to continue doing what they still do which is stand as far back as they can and do as much pinpoint as they can. The last thing they need is this again. They should be grateful for the laser vomit Meta they have now. The play style almost cuts out brawling and close range because to close on these builds you’ll take too much damage to survive in range, all pinpoint.

Edited by Daltonator713, 11 February 2018 - 09:30 PM.

[Appogee]

Johnathan Tanner, on 11 February 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

Yes because we dont have enough linebacker assassin rush spam as it is lol.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Appogee]

Daltonator713, on 11 February 2018 - 09:28 PM, said:

We don’t need that **** back. I see your arguments of how it causes a disadvantage but we don’t need to return to dropping against 12 man premades where 2/3 of them are gauss ppc.

I feel the same way.

Note: I don't begrudge the high-skill players and teams who set up preconfigured positions on each map and just sit there delivering 50 point precision alphas to any enemy who peeks. It's just that, when most of a team is doing that, it becomes the only viable strategy. So the game deconstructs into long range peeking and camping... one-dimensional and boring.

Some like sniper games. There are plenty of sniper games to play. MWO should be about more than sniping.

[vonJerg]

Voted NO as answer YES would bring 60 PPFLD, that imho is too much.

For 45 PPFLD I would have voted YES.

[Gas Guzzler]

vonJerg, on 11 February 2018 - 11:53 PM, said:

Voted NO as answer YES would bring 60 PPFLD, that imho is too much.

For 45 PPFLD I would have voted YES.

What is the 60 ppfld loadout you are refering too?

[Laser Kiwi]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 February 2018 - 11:57 PM, said:

What is the 60 ppfld loadout you are refering too?

well i guess he meant 50pp and 10 splash? anyway, i'm inner sphere, i voted no cause my guns weigh more. I asked my locust and he thinks his slightly nerfed agility was an insult that drew a line in the sand.

Actually part of me really doesn't care one way or the other because off topic i want to be able to mix tech. mix tech is the only way to true mech customisation in a fair and equitable way, and i mean everything clan endo steel and ferro, no IS endo or ferro in the game at all because c-bills don't matter. No IS xl engines cause they suck etc etc, say no to that and you'll never ever get my vote to undo the 2x2.

and also off topic all those other nerfs were bad, my 6 med pulse huntsman hates the med pulse nerf, however my crab 6 med pulse thinks its only fair in a mano v mano game so he thanks PGI for being kind.

Oh for crying out loud can we just buff the timberwolf agility just a little bit, cause the timber wolf really is a dog and even though i'm IS it is still a good mech, and if we had mixed tech giving it agility back would be totally above board.

I apologise for going on about mixed tech in this forum, but i think its relevant to the question in a round about way

[L0stA1m]

Khobai, on 11 February 2018 - 09:25 PM, said:

You mean Ash's not relevant post that was 100% wrong?

I especially like the part where he starts blaming me for all the nerfs in the last 12 months

Nerfs which im on the record for opposing and speaking out against.

Nobody with a shred of common sense supported any of those nerfs.

Likewise bringing back long range PPFLD is also the completely wrong way to balance the game. Even this poll indicates 40% of players dont want it. And thats 40% despite the obvious bias of the poll, because the way its worded makes it sound like the opposition doesnt want PPC or Gauss to be viable weapons. Which is completely untrue.

You obviously shouldnt try to force something back into the game at this point that 40% of people who voted dont want.


Although Ive suggested a compromise that would give everyone partly what they want.

Dont allow gauss rifles to fire while jumpjetting. physically disable their ability to fire when in the air.

-You can have your x3 gauss/PPC, but only on the ground, not in the air (could still poptart with the PPCs though, just not the gauss).
-People who are concerned about poptarting dont have to worry about 45 damage poptarts
-We can unnerf Night Gyr agility since Night Gyrs poptarting for 30 damage isnt overpowered
-And gauss chargeup can be removed since the chargeup mostly exists to make poptarting with gauss harder (which would no longer be possible at all)

Thats seems pretty fair to me and should make everyone happy. Since everyone on both sides of the argument gets something, but not everything, they asked for.

Ash blamed people like you and he is right.
Just state that you dont wanna have a high skill ceiling game, because of you and all the other bads cant accept to loose. Guys like you allways blame the game.

Edited by L0stA1m, 12 February 2018 - 12:32 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Ash blamed people like you and he is right.

How is he right?

He blamed me for all of the nerfs in the last 12 months

Even though I opposed every single nerf. lol.

He could not possibly be more wrong in fact.

Quote

Just state that you dont wanna have a high skill ceiling game, because of you and all the other bads cant accept to loose. Guys like you allways blame the game.

The game cant have a higher skill ceiling when you have mixed tiers of players in games and dont have a proper working matchmaker. If you try to impose a higher skill ceiling in that mixed skill environment, even more people WILL leave. thats a certain FACT given the current state of MWO, which has already been hemorrhaging players like crazy.

what you want is a complete pipedream. You want the game to be something it can never be given the severe limitations of the current matchmaker and lack of player population. Its unfortunate we cant have a proper working matchmaker or draw on a large enough player population to separate out players by skill. Then the skill ceiling could be increased because youd always play against people of equal skill level as yourself. But thats not the game we have...

the game we have has mixed skill tiers, a laughable matchmaker that does closer to nothing than something, its shedding players far faster than it gains them. and you want a higher skill ceiling? lmao. The game really cant support a higher skill ceiling it in its current condition... and thats not going to attract new players to the game... just make them leave faster.

Your outlook of the game is so distorted and warped. you think just because stats, achievements, and winning is all that matters to you, that its all that matters for everyone else too. That isnt the case. I dont care about winning or losing and I certainly dont care about stats or trying to statshame other people like a chlld. none of those things matter to me. I just want the game to be fun regardless of the outcome.

Edited by Khobai, 12 February 2018 - 01:08 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 11 February 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

I was against nerfing small pulse laser damage

I was against nerfing CMPLs

You are just making up stuff left, right and center lately huh?

THREAD HERE

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 11:26 PM, said:

CSPL absolutely needed to be nerfed. 6 damage for 3 heat was absolutely absurd. Especially with that short of a beam duration.

Im sorry but CSPL got what it deserved. And theres no going back.

CMPL also needed its range nerfed. But they shouldve lowered its heat to compensate for the drop in range. CMPL were way too effective at midrange poking when theyre supposed to be an under 400m brawling weapon.

Good riddance to 6 damage 3 heat CSPL. That crap was laughably OP.

And last week we had this ABSOLUTE GEM of a post where you have been caught red handed unable to remember what you've said previously.

As I have said before... Just stop. Please, for the good of the community, you need to stop dude. Go play the game, leave balance to those who remember what they had for breakfast.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 12 February 2018 - 01:14 AM.