145 replies to this topic

[Khereg]

WHO THE ABSOLUTE **** NAVIGATES TO A POLL, READS THE ENTIRE 18 PARAGRAPH ISSUE UP FOR DEBATE AND VOTES TO ****ING "ABSTAIN"?!?

Oh wait - not reddit? Not the salt thread?

Carry on.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Khereg, on 12 February 2018 - 04:31 PM, said:

WHO THE ABSOLUTE **** NAVIGATES TO A POLL, READS THE ENTIRE 18 PARAGRAPH ISSUE UP FOR DEBATE AND VOTES TO ****ING "ABSTAIN"?!?

When the other options are both bad, because the poll has identity problems? Me

[Khereg]

Jay Leon Hart, on 12 February 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

When the other options are both bad, because the poll has identity problems? Me

CAP UP, FLAIR UP, SCRUB!

Still not the salt thread?

[MovinTarget]

Cody CC2224, on 12 February 2018 - 03:09 PM, said:

the problem is 40-60 ppdmg into one component, which you can't negate/spread.

Agree, this is an opportunity to change something fundamental: weapons convergence.

I don't want to get rid of it, however, seeing how torso weapons shouldn't really converge due to physics (you can argue gimbles and pivots all you want) at least make them slower to converge than arm/head weapons.

This increases the value of arm mounted weapons and creates the likelyhood that poptarts spread their damage a bit unless they show tremendous concentration and fire discipline.

Hypothetically it could increase TTK as well.

At the very least, ballistics should not have insta-convergence like they do now.

[SeventhSL]

Ha ha.... a vote for YES is a vote to buff Clan. Go team Clan!!!

I voted NO for the sake of balance. I'd actually love to remove ghost heat entirely but a few other game Mechenics must be in place first.

[r4zen]

Cody CC2224, on 12 February 2018 - 03:09 PM, said:

the problem is 40-60 ppdmg into one component, which you can't negate/spread.

That's not the entire problem though. At 220m (base) I can put 50 PPFLD into a component.

At 270m (base) I can put 50 PPFLD into a component, though this requires them to probably not be moving (or be walking right at me with no twist).

At 450m (base) I can do 40 PPFLD.

The 40-50 PPFLD can't be the issue, because no one's asking for AC10 or HGauss nerf, or ghost heat on an AC20+Gauss.

It's the PPFLD + velocity + range, right? Or ability for a certain Clan 'mech to jump and do it on a heavy chassis? I understand and empathize with that argument a lot more.

As for part II - can't negate it - that's wrong. You can absolutely negate it - the same way you negate any PPFLD weapon at range, which is using movement and cover. At 700 m, on anything moving at least 60kph, the convergence/velocity difference doesn't work. Unless you're running directly towards them like a doofus.


--- so what would make the combo amenable to you, or those that share your thoughts? De-syncing the velocity of the weapons further? Would you be okay with a trial period for the combo to come back, given the heavy nerfs to the chassis that could abuse it? Specifically referring to the 3x combo, not the 4x. The 4x can die in a fire. ---

[The Lighthouse]

After that podcast with Paul is out, this poll seems completely meaningless unfortunately. At least we now kind of knows about people's preference of Gauss + PPC setup.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Cody CC2224, on 12 February 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

seriously man - read the topic.
it's about ghost heat yes/no on 2gauss+2peeps / 3peeps
2ppc don't generate ghost heat.

...
It's obviously meant for 2 ppcs and a gauss or two, depending if the cap is rased to 1+2 or 2+2.
And i meant a pair of ppcs compared to a set of medium and or large/pulse lasers. duuu.

[Leone]

@Khereg. Yo. *raises hand actuator*

Stinger554, on 12 February 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

My point was that this poll is heavily biased towards a yes answer to bring gauss/PPC back. Whether it's intentional I can't say but that's the way it is and this poll should be scrapped and restarted because of it; but Mr. Dane is completely ignoring that so....

Actually, the poll seems biased towards choosing whether or not you'd prefer a change to the current Gauss/PPC limits. Or if you don't care. They were even nice enough to put in a vote option for me, which I thought was very thoughtful. And, as I understand it, the entire point of the poll is to gauge forum goers thoughts on the issue, so, I guess they nailed it.

~Leone.

[Stinger554]

Jay Leon Hart, on 12 February 2018 - 04:30 PM, said:

Do you want a total of 3 Gauss/PPC or 4? Your poll is confused...

Welcome to why this poll is stupid, biased and needs to be redone.

Leone, on 13 February 2018 - 12:56 PM, said:

Actually, the poll seems biased towards choosing whether or not you'd prefer a change to the current Gauss/PPC limits. Or if you don't care. They were even nice enough to put in a vote option for me, which I thought was very thoughtful. And, as I understand it, the entire point of the poll is to gauge forum goers thoughts on the issue, so, I guess they nailed it.

~Leone.

At the risk of needlessly repeating myself. Since Mr. Dane didn't separate the options or specific which one they want to implement they will get biased results one way or the other. IE there will be people who select yes but don't want 2xgauss2xPPC since they want the 3Xgauss/PPC portion and vice versa people who vote no because they don't want 2xgauss2xPPC to even be a remote possibility but would find 3xgauss/PPC to be acceptable.

This means the data will not be reliable.

If Mr.Dane meant to ask "Hey would MWO players be okay with a loosening of GH on gauss//PPC combos; please select Y or N or Don't care" then that's what he should have asked instead and he should close this poll and start a new one with that question.

Edited by Stinger554, 13 February 2018 - 01:37 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

I would just take it as:

A ) PPC Gauss should be less restricted
B ) PPC Gauss should stay how it is

Its not like PGI is going to jump all the way to 4 again, I think that's pretty clear based on the podcast.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 13 February 2018 - 01:40 PM.

[TheSteelRhino]

Personally, I cannot stand the poptart meta that evolved around the PPC/Gauss combo. That combo SERIOUSLY favors CLAN poptarts when you start combining 2 ERPPC and a gauss rifle. 45 point alpha..(forget about 2 guass and 2 ppc or 3 erppc and 1 gauss..that's ridiculous).

If it wasn't for the poptart meta, this wouldn't bother me as much. But the whole thing is just lame, and reminds of how fun the MW4/mektek servers got with stupid poptarting gladiators at the edge of the map...

It just emphasizes the clan vs IS tech gap...no.

Edited by TheSteelRhino, 13 February 2018 - 07:03 PM.

[Hanky Spam]

TheSteelRhino, on 13 February 2018 - 07:01 PM, said:

Personally, I cannot stand the poptart meta that evolved around the PPC/Gauss combo. That combo SERIOUSLY favors CLAN poptarts when you start combining 2 ERPPC and a gauss rifle. 45 point alpha..(forget about 2 guass and 2 ppc or 3 erppc and 1 gauss..that's ridiculous).

If it wasn't for the poptart meta, this wouldn't bother me as much. But the whole thing is just lame, and reminds of how fun the MW4/mektek servers got with stupid poptarting gladiators at the edge of the map...

It just emphasizes the clan vs IS tech gap...no.

never heard of IS (er|heavy)PPC or MRM poptarting?
Works very well if you are in optimal range...

[MovinTarget]

Hanky Spam, on 14 February 2018 - 02:48 AM, said:

never heard of IS (er|heavy)PPC or MRM poptarting?
Works very well if you are in optimal range...

That's apples to oranges though... thats more.... brawl-tarting? The contention is the combination of range and damage where the 'tarter can hurt you much more easily than you can return the favor. Both by range and by the fact that distant airborne targets are hard to hit with equal PPFLD.

I'm not saying HG and MRMs can't be potent, but they are potent at much closer ranges.

Edited by MovinTarget, 14 February 2018 - 06:27 AM.

[Lyons De Flamand]

We were just starting to teach the clans to brawl

[Curccu]

MovinTarget, on 14 February 2018 - 06:26 AM, said:

That's apples to oranges though... thats more.... brawl-tarting? The contention is the combination of range and damage where the 'tarter can hurt you much more easily than you can return the favor. Both by range and by the fact that distant airborne targets are hard to hit with equal PPFLD.

I'm not saying HG and MRMs can't be potent, but they are potent at much closer ranges.

So something like this CTF-3D? If PGI unlinks ghostheat from Gauss and Peeps or up limit to 3, most likely outshoots Gyr from distance

[r4zen]

Curccu, on 14 February 2018 - 07:09 AM, said:

So something like this CTF-3D? If PGI unlinks ghostheat from Gauss and Peeps or up limit to 3, most likely outshoots Gyr from distance

Ehhh...not so much. The poptart combo definitely favors Clan 'mechs, and by Clan 'mechs we're really talking about the NTG.

HOWEVER

The NTG has been nerfed into oblivion. Currently, it's probably most effective at ERLL vomit (maybe with a gauss also), because you don't need mobility as much on staredown sniper engagements.

I think with the nerfs to both JJs and the NTG chassis agility, Clan GPPC poptarting won't be nearly as effective. Even with ghost heat, the combo is still doable (I run it on Terra Therma and Tourmaline pretty often still, depending on objective), you can alpha, then desync your shots while you cool, then alpha again. But the JJ and agility nerf makes it feel terrible. If ghost heat were gone from the combo, I don't even think I'd run it too much more often in any of my FP decks.

[Ery]

Hope this bullsh** never come back!
Buff Brawl!!! :-)

[Kubernetes]

I’m laughing at the people who think gauss/ERPPC is too easy and low skill. If that’s the case, what weapons are actually hard to use?

Hitting moving targets at range with projectile weapons is the hardest weapon-handling skill in the game. That’s considerably more difficult than holding a hitscan laser directly on target or launching missiles after target lock.

[MovinTarget]

Kubernetes, on 18 February 2018 - 10:42 AM, said:

I’m laughing at the people who think gauss/ERPPC is too easy and low skill. If that’s the case, what weapons are actually hard to use?

Hitting moving targets at range with projectile weapons is the hardest weapon-handling skill in the game. That’s considerably more difficult than holding a hitscan laser directly on target or launching missiles after target lock.

Pffft true skill players get srm headshots...