251 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

How is it possible for him to reach over 20k posts without getting banned for the nonsense he spreads around?

People like you are why the community is so divided. You cant make a cogent argument so you have to get derisive.

In fact im the one trying to find a compromise.

Youre not going to get x3 Gauss/PPC into the game when 40% of the players who voted in the poll are against it for one reason or another.

Not unless those reasons are addressed.

Edited by Khobai, 12 February 2018 - 04:54 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 12 February 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

People like you are why the community is so divided. You cant make a cogent argument so you have to get derisive.

Any discussion with you is like beating a dead horse because you have a fundamentally different desire for where this game should go.

[PocketYoda]

Looks like more want it back then hated it.. not sure why 16 didn't vote seems silly...

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Khobai, on 12 February 2018 - 03:47 PM, said:

weapons in MWO have x2 max range compared to their max ranges in battletech

Battletech GR does 15 damage out to 900m. MW:O GR starts to fall off at 660m

People keep saying "Gauss at 500m does this! Gauss at 500m does that!" News flash: 500m is not "long distance." No one using GR wants to engage at 500m.

500m is laser light-show range. There's no way any combination of GRs and PPCs is going to compete with the DPS of a meta laser boat at 500m. And that's close enough to hold the beam on torso, even without zoom.

At 500m, a crummy one ton medium laser will register damage.

500m is literally about 7 seconds for the average light to close, turn, and tear open an assault's rear armor. With cooldown and charge up, a GR gets one shot in that time, one shot to hit a 100kph light with lag and hit reg that (let's be honest, here) probably won't register damage even if the shooter manages it.

I should be engaging at 900+m. At that range I should be up against other GRs, LRMs, PPCs, and ERLLs that only the best shots can hold on torso, and then only with adv. zoom.

I'm tired of running a "sniper build," having an enemy in my sights at 1k, trudging through the open, and not wanting to waste the ammo on doing, what? 8 points of damage per round? Is that right? Who knows? Why the **** do snipers have to do this kind of ******* math in the middle of a firefight, anyway? Why do I have to let that dope herping through the wide open close to within optimal range of his ******* weapons before I can shoot mine? I'M THE ******* SNIPER IN THIS ******* SCENARIO!

You can keep your ghost heat (which is not anywhere near TT's zero heat Gauss values, so let's not bring "Battletech values" into this, eh?) and I'll even take the min range on Gauss that's in TT. Give me full damage out to 1000m.

[Spheroid]

@Glitchdragon: You are incorrect, unless you are using optional extended range rules TT gauss rifle has a range of 660 meters based on 22 hexes each 30 meters wide. That is how the base range of SRMs and mlas is 270 meters, 9*30= 270.

Edited by Spheroid, 12 February 2018 - 05:32 PM.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Spheroid, on 12 February 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

@Glitchdragon: You are incorrect, unless you are using optional extended range rules TT gauss rifle has a range of 660 meters based on 22 hexes each 30 meters wide. That is how the base range of SRMs and mlas is 270 meters, 9*30= 270.

http://www.sarna.net...Equipment_Lists (shows extreme range as 30 hexes)

[Tarl Cabot]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 12 February 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

Battletech GR does 15 damage out to 900m. MW:O GR starts to fall off at 660m
..
http://www.sarna.net...Equipment_Lists (shows extreme range as 30 hexes)

But do you know how the damage is calculated? Remember also, there are high gunnery rolls that have to be made to even determine a hit, THEN hit location for each weapon that does hit....

From Tactical Operations
Pulse lasers: Damage * 0.5
Direct fire energy weapons + GR: Damage * 0.75
Direct fire ballistics weapons (except GR ): Damage - 1
etc...

coming back to edit the range calculations as it continues to change over the years.....Sarna is showing the ranges as per Maximum Tech.

• Tactical Handbook (1994) - First set of level 3 rules.
  
• Maximum Tech (1999) - Extreme range set at 1.5 long range, rounded down. Only damage changes listed were to energy weapons. Close up add +1, long range -1 then extreme range the damage was halved.
  
• Maximum Tech (2003 - revised) See the rules below.
  
• Tactical Operations (2008) - Use the following rules for Extreme Range.
  
• • Extreme Range starts 1 hex beyond long range and extends to a range equal to the weapon’s maximum medium range times 2. For example, extreme range for a medium laser extends from 10 to 12 hexes; the medium laser’s long range is 9 (9 + 1 = 10), and its maximum medium range is 6 (6 x 2 = 12). For Variable Range weapons, multiply the Long Range by 1.5 (round down). If a weapon does not have a Long Range, it cannot have an Extreme Range.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 12 February 2018 - 07:57 PM.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Tarl Cabot, on 12 February 2018 - 06:01 PM, said:

But do you know how the damage is calculated? Remember also, there are high gunnery rolls that have to be made to even determine a hit, THEN hit location for each weapon that does hit....

Pulse lasers: Damage * 0.5
Direct fire energy weapons + GR: Damage * 0.75
Direct fire ballistics weapons (except GR ): Damage - 1
etc...

coming back to edit the range calculations...

Do you know how Gauss heat is calculated in TT? Also, responding to Spheroid, now. Max range according to sarna is 900m. We'll get to your point after you explain TT Gauss heat values. Also, please provide sarna links.

Edited by Mister Glitchdragon, 12 February 2018 - 06:18 PM.

[Kubernetes]

I'm totally serious, they should create a mod for the nerf-warriors: every weapon does 1 damage, cooldown 10 seconds, range 150 meters, cone of fire RNG. You guys can have your massive TTK and never feel inadequate again.

[TankBadger42]

Why are you undoing your own work with repeating this argument?

This is not the hill you want to die on, trust me.

Your dividing the community wanting change with this, even though the Community-Driven Balance Update has already said its a dead horse not worth fighting over?

[Bud Crue]

TankBadger42, on 12 February 2018 - 07:07 PM, said:

Why are you undoing your own work with repeating this argument?

This is not the hill you want to die on, trust me.

Your dividing the community wanting change with this, even though the Community-Driven Balance Update has already said its a dead horse not worth fighting over?

Baby, the latest NGNG podcast just made it crystal ******* clear that the "community-driven balance update" effort is dead. Gauss/PPC is not even a tertiary concern. The debate of whether to bring it back or not is officially moot by decree of the lords of balance. Go listen for yourself. Paul has spoken and anything from this effort without full community consensus will be ignored...along with everything else that PGI hadn't already thought of at least one month ago. Its done. No point in worrying about this further.

[Mystere]

TankBadger42, on 12 February 2018 - 07:07 PM, said:

Why are you undoing your own work with repeating this argument?

This is not the hill you want to die on, trust me.

Your dividing the community wanting change with this, even though the Community-Driven Balance Update has already said its a dead horse not worth fighting over?

Just who is this so-called "community" driving this so-called "community-driven" effort? Who voted them to represent everyone?

Edited by Mystere, 12 February 2018 - 07:18 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 12 February 2018 - 06:07 PM, said:

Do you know how Gauss heat is calculated in TT? Also, responding to Spheroid, now. Max range according to sarna is 900m. We'll get to your point after you explain TT Gauss heat values. Also, please provide sarna links.

The Sarna link/site is user driven and that link's listing is primarily based on Maximum Tech, 1st version which is 15 years old. Maximum Tech (2003-revised) and Tactical Operations have the updated information, shortening extreme range.

And TT does not have pinpoint accuracy from grouping all weapon fire to have only ONE roll of the dice for all to hit and location. TT is a simplified simulation of what happens in a 10 sec time span. Also in TT a pilot does not have precise control over where he hits 99.9% of the time, provided if he hits. That is left up to the battle computer to determine then give tone lock for high probability of simply hitting a battlemech, much less a specific location, all the while the pilot simply tries to makes sure his target hairs stays on an an evasive, moving target while his own mech is also making evasive moves in an attempt to prevent from being hit itself.

So PGI has to make adjustments. PGI could give PPC a charge up timer like the GR but both would have different timers. ....wouldn't that be fun... But even then, I would prefer it to be a double pull, pull to charge then a pull to actually fire said weapon instead of a pull and release.

Edit - The two versions of Max Tech handles Extreme range differently.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 12 February 2018 - 08:00 PM.

[ANOM O MECH]

Mystere, on 12 February 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

Just who is this so-called "community" driving this so-called "community-driven" effort? Who voted them to represent everyone?

The community in this context is the comp community with some input from others.

Basically though, it is some of the better players in this game speaking up.

Also some of those guys are also streamers with large community of their own made up of all sorts of different folks from the community as a whole.

There was no need for a vote. These people stepped up on their own with issues that are common for everyone playing.

I am sure knowing you that you are inferring the 'average' guy is not included, yet here this thread is for you to have your input. No one is taking away your voice here.

[Mystere]

tker 669, on 12 February 2018 - 07:24 PM, said:

Basically though, it is some of the better players in this game speaking up.

So, can one of these "better" players please explain what rationale was behind the 4% decrease in cooldown for the IS LB-10X? Why not 3%? Why not 5%?

In other words, what objective criteria was used to give LBX autocannons "base cooldown buffs for improved DPS, balanced by their spread"?

And that's just for starters.

Edited by Mystere, 12 February 2018 - 07:45 PM.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Tarl Cabot, on 12 February 2018 - 07:21 PM, said:

The Sarna link/site is user driven and that link's listing is primarily based on Maximum Tech, as noted and is 15 years old.

And TT does not have pinpoint accuracy from grouping all weapon fire to have only ONE roll of the dice for all to hit and location. TT is a simplified simulation of what happens in a 10 sec time span. Also in TT a pilot does not have precise control over where he hits 99.9% of the time, provided if he hits. That is left up to the battle computer to determine then give tone lock for high probability of simply hitting a battlemech, much less a specific location, all the while the pilot simply tries to makes sure his target hairs stays on an an evasive, moving target while his own mech is also making evasive moves in an attempt to prevent from being hit itself.

So PGI has to make adjustments. PGI could give PPC a charge up timer like the GR but both would have different timers. ....wouldn't that be fun... But even then, I would prefer it to be a double pull, pull to charge then a pull to actually fire said weapon instead of a pull and release.

Lots of words, not one mention of Gauss heat rules in TT. So... are you not responding to me? Yet you quoted me... strange.

[UnofficialOperator]

Kubernetes, on 12 February 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

I'm totally serious, they should create sell a mod for the nerf-warriors: every weapon does 1 damage, cooldown 10 seconds, range 150 meters, cone of fire RNG. You guys can have your massive TTK and never feel inadequate again.

fixed a word

I suggest $1.99

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 12 February 2018 - 08:49 PM.

[ANOM O MECH]

Mystere, on 12 February 2018 - 07:44 PM, said:

So, can one of these "better" players please explain what rationale was behind the 4% decrease in cooldown for the IS LB-10X? Why not 3%? Why not 5%?

In other words, what objective criteria was used to give LBX autocannons "base cooldown buffs for improved DPS, balanced by their spread"?

And that's just for starters.

Isn't this the ppc/gauss thread?

[Lawrence Elsa]

I say I want it back for the following reasons:

• It hasn't been nor was it the most powerful alpha-strike based build
  
• Jump jets will never be un-nerfed regardless of if PPC/Gauss comes back as demonstrated now
  
• Gauss will always have the charge time, even on Light Gauss as demonstrated now
  
• It the low damage and cool down makes it harder to use than Laservomit or ERLL sniping (which is a hard-counter to ERPPC poptarts now)
  
• Time To Kill going up isn't a good thing since it makes matches last longer, thus wait times last longer, thus less people are bound to sit down and play, and the cycle continues...
  
• Even if it was the only thing brought back from the changes made since new tech, it still would not be the most powerful as HLL/ERML vomit, Annihilator UAC dakka, and even Gauss/Laservomit
  
• The only thing that would be more powerful than the current meta would be Heavy PPCs with Heavy Gauss, which can be given it's own Ghost Heat values.

[Y E O N N E]

Lawrence Elsa, on 13 February 2018 - 12:39 AM, said:

I say I want it back for the following reasons:

• It hasn't been nor was it the most powerful alpha-strike based build
  
• Jump jets will never be un-nerfed regardless of if PPC/Gauss comes back as demonstrated now

Joke's on you, PGI hinted that they may look into improving jump jets in the recent podcast.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 13 February 2018 - 01:42 AM.