143 replies to this topic

[UnofficialOperator]

Pretty sure if there was a "Auto Torso Twist" module, some of these guys would survive longer...

Edit: I hope they sell it in store soon

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 12 February 2018 - 07:30 PM.

[FupDup]

Personally, on the topic of TTK, I think that broadly speaking it is in a fine spot. I think some specific mechs die too quickly and some specific guns/builds might kill too quickly, but on average I think it's about right. And to be fair some guns don't kill quickly enough, like the IS Small Laser.

People can make a reasonable case for keeping the TTK approximately where it is now, but people who ask for it to be lowered really need to understand that it's completely okay for a game to be different than the norm (because, I assume that people asking for faster kills are doing so because of their experiences in other games and want MWO to mirror those experiences sort of like how people play HOTS and tell Blizzard to make it more like DOTA or LOL).

Edited by FupDup, 12 February 2018 - 07:34 PM.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 12 February 2018 - 07:32 PM, said:

Personally, on the topic of TTK, I think that broadly speaking it is in a fine spot. I think some specific mechs die too quickly and some specific guns/builds might kill too quickly, but on average I think it's about right.

People can make a reasonable case for keeping the TTK approximately where it is now, but people who ask for it to be lowered really need to understand that it's completely okay for a game to be different than the norm (because, I assume that people asking for faster kills are doing so because of their experiences in other games and want MWO to be similar to them).

Well, I've ironically seen more spam about making TTK higher, but that also means that good players live that much longer and bad players still die a little slower (by "slower" we're talking about another 5 seconds, give or take by the glory of the dartboard).

So, people really need to think about this on a more serious level.

[cougurt]

Samial, on 12 February 2018 - 07:26 PM, said:

No its not.. if you aren't patient this game shouldn't be for you.. we don't need more CoD as the dev stated i agree on that whole heartedly.

that's part of the problem--people are too impatient and get themselves in bad situations where they die within seconds. i can't count the number of times i've seen multiple teammates rush in and die before i even caught a glimpse of the enemy. the first week or so after the piranha release showcased that very well.

[PocketYoda]

UnofficialOperator, on 12 February 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

You do realize a high TTK will mean its worse for a player like you right? :X

Explain.. why you think high TTK will be bad for me.. personally

[Deathlike]

Samial, on 12 February 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

Explain.. why you think high TTK will be bad for me.. personally

You die slightly slower, or the same if you like walking into firing lines.

It really buffs better players than it nerfs them.

[Angus McFife VI]

Samial, on 12 February 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

Explain.. why you think high TTK will be bad for me.. personally

What mechs are you using, first of all

[PocketYoda]

Dont LRM me please, on 12 February 2018 - 07:28 PM, said:

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Unless you are standing still or are being focused by 3-4 mechanical walking tanks, you shouldn't be dying so fast. But I won't expect someone who isn't very experienced or good to understand that.

What exactly does my stats have anything to do with what the podcast said.. and TTK.. at all in any way shape of form..other than your ego of course..

Edited by poopenshire, 16 February 2018 - 10:17 AM.

[LordNothing]

sycocys, on 12 February 2018 - 07:21 PM, said:

Been trying to drive home that point for years, even the silly ghost heat doesn't make much if any difference.

Lasers especially (really could include PPCs as well) all need to have actual weaknesses or there will never be a way to balance them with the rest of the weapons or such things like combining them with guass.

The only two things that I can see that would work within this game's system would be a useful energy draw system (similar to the heat, but locks weapons when there isn't cap space to fire - and also accounts for additional equipped active tech) or breaking lore and giving them all minimum range slopes - extending the ppc + erppc out much further.

* it probably also wouldn't hurt to make running at a certain threshold of heat and up into overheat target the weapons systems and heat sinks before the internal structures and able to do enough damage to destroy either/both depending on how hot and how long you run hot.

energy draw did have some good points but the pgi's tendency to self sabotage ruined it by going beyond the scope of what the thing was trying to accomplish. it also made the mistake of including all the weapons rather than the ones that were the actual problem. i was pushing for alternative mechanics for ballistics and missiles (things like recoil and ghost spread).

id actually get rid of the arbitrary gh groups and go with a system that is a function of damage output and time (like dh/dt), so that higher alphas come with diminishing returns.

[justcallme A S H]

Dont LRM me please, on 12 February 2018 - 07:07 PM, said:

So are you suggesting we lower TTK? Or keep it how it is?

Skill Maze increased TTK with the survival tree. This was clearly evident in the stats Taro did which showed a distinct climb in Average Match Score across the board.

In light of this increase does the game require further increase in TTK via these unabated weapon nerfs? It absolutely does not.

As I said earlier the section of the community that wants it just does not understand the game and PGI pandering to it, it's further increasing the stale nature of the game. Further increasing the need for good players to bring high alpha strike builds that reward skilled aim and punish those below that cannot.

[Brain Cancer]

Gas Guzzler, on 12 February 2018 - 06:45 PM, said:

Hahahaha.

Well, lasers are probably prevalent in all tiers so that's a bit different.

Let's just have a little fun with that whole LRM statement.

Right now, T1-T3 is quite common. So, what level are LRMs balanced for?

If it's T3s, it means that entire tier has a chance every game of being deliberately being given weapons balanced to be intentionally bad versus a significant portion of their opponents.

Let's repeat that. We have a weapon system that is deliberately designed to be bad and useless versus skilled players. It's not ignorance or apathy like I thought it might be, but malice. Never mind that it's common as heck in what PGI sells in it's Mechpacks. LRMs and their mechanics? Paul doesn't want you to be able to use them past a certain point because he's afraid it'll hurt people who have difficulty with basic game functions down in T5.

[PocketYoda]

Deathlike, on 12 February 2018 - 07:42 PM, said:

You die slightly slower, or the same if you like walking into firing lines.

It really buffs better players than it nerfs them.

Great living longer gives me more time to help my team.. such as most are..

Dont LRM me please, on 12 February 2018 - 07:43 PM, said:

What mechs are you using, first of all

All of them i have 135 mechs i change mechs every match, so i don't get bored.. That said i have favorites i do better in but on a whole i'm mostly in the mechlabs tinkering with my poor builds, trying to get them better, more than my best..

I like

Urbanmechs
Commandos
Osiris
Myst Lynx

Hellspawns
Assassins
Enforcers
Centurians
Crabs

Catapults
Grasshoppers
Marauders
Dragons
Ebon Jags
Maddogs

King Crabs
Nightstars
Direwolves
Mad IIC

Are generally my favs.. I play a different mech each battle.

Edited by Samial, 12 February 2018 - 07:55 PM.

[cougurt]

Samial, on 12 February 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

What exactly does my stats have anything to do with what the podcast said.. and TTK.. at all in any way shape of form..other than your ego of course..

your stats show that you only survive ~30% of your matches, which is rather low. your perceived issues with TTK may simply be a result of bad gameplay habits, such as a lack of movement and torso twisting, making unfavorable trades, bad positioning, etc.

try to analyze what you're doing when you get killed, and ask yourself if there's something you could have done differently to avoid it.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 12 February 2018 - 07:42 PM, said:

It really buffs better players than it nerfs them.

That part is quite obvious, to most anyway.

However, what seems to be less obvious is that longer TTK gives the weaker player better opportunities -- no matter how small -- for recovery/corrective action.

Besides, which is more fun, dying early or lasting for a little while longer before dying?

Edited by Mystere, 12 February 2018 - 08:08 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Pilot Locusts then say TTK is to long. Lag shielded mechs do not count.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 February 2018 - 08:14 PM.

[Yosharian]

People saying that they don't want jumpsniping Dire Wolves because that'd be too powerful

Meanwhile Highlander sucks absolute balls because it was built around jumpsniping

Gee if only we had some way of buffing one particular chassis without affecting other ones

It'd have to be some kind of specific buff to one chassis only

Like... a sort of trait... that only that chassis has

I'm trying to think of a specific word that would be perfect for it.. it's on the tip of my tongue.. begins with a Q...

[LordNothing]

FupDup, on 12 February 2018 - 07:32 PM, said:

Personally, on the topic of TTK, I think that broadly speaking it is in a fine spot. I think some specific mechs die too quickly and some specific guns/builds might kill too quickly, but on average I think it's about right. And to be fair some guns don't kill quickly enough, like the IS Small Laser.

People can make a reasonable case for keeping the TTK approximately where it is now, but people who ask for it to be lowered really need to understand that it's completely okay for a game to be different than the norm (because, I assume that people asking for faster kills are doing so because of their experiences in other games and want MWO to mirror those experiences sort of like how people play HOTS and tell Blizzard to make it more like DOTA or LOL).

i think that the average is about right. but the difference between the best and the worst is so wide that depending on loadouts it can seem way too long or way too short. its why you see such differing opinions from different tiers where vastly different standards for good builds apply. in other words its all over the place. i think they have found the sweet spot for ttk but i think some investigation is needed into finding the weapons and builds that make it seem that the current ttk is bogus.

[LordNothing]

Johnny Z, on 12 February 2018 - 08:13 PM, said:

Pilot Locusts then say TTK is to long. Lag shielded mechs do not count.

when i pilot a locust assault mechs die really fast.

[Johnny Z]

LordNothing, on 12 February 2018 - 08:29 PM, said:

when i pilot a locust assault mechs die really fast.

I put 250 damage into a locust at the edge of the map with my Marauder and got beat. So I know exactly how much damage I did to it since I didn't hit any other mechs. That's enough damage to drop that locust 4 to 10 times or more. So maybe your running a lag shielded Locust somehow.

When I pilot a Locust, one false move and its down. Total damage including structure for side torso from rear is 19, then match over.

Like I said, lag shielded mechs don't count.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 February 2018 - 08:45 PM.

[JediPanther]

Paul: words n stuff.
Community: time to find a new game to spend money and time on.
Me: LRMs Forever! Suck it T5 wankers! Oh Crap Dual Heavy Guass Mother F!