426 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

pattonesque, on 16 February 2018 - 07:16 AM, said:

this is another incredibly weird thing for you to say because good players will almost never get killed by LRMs

I'm not top tier and I can't remember the last time I was anything but inconvenienced by LRMs

and again: if your super awesome meta build is owning top-tier players with bracket builds on the regular, where's the proof? reminder that you are not allowed to photoshop this time.

Photoshop? When have I ever photoshoped?

All you need to do is bring LRMs to a fight that has no AMS.
No AMS, ideally no or minimal ECM, and fire. Just like any other weapon it has a chance of succeeding or failing. Success is just quite a bit higher when the missiles aren't being shot down 5 to 15 at a time by local AMS use. Supplement multiple mechs doing this while escorted by some laser meta providing both direct fire and defense and you'd have a hard nut to crack.

[Stinger554]

pattonesque, on 16 February 2018 - 07:16 AM, said:

this is another incredibly weird thing for you to say because good players will almost never get killed by LRMs

I'm not top tier and I can't remember the last time I was anything but inconvenienced by LRMs

and again: if your super awesome meta build is owning top-tier players with bracket builds on the regular, where's the proof? reminder that you are not allowed to photoshop this time.

Essentially the only time I've been killed by LRMs is on Polar and even then it's when there's like 3+ LRM boats firing missiles at me and my teammates don't push them.


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Edited by poopenshire, 16 February 2018 - 08:40 AM.

[pattonesque]

Koniving, on 16 February 2018 - 07:25 AM, said:

Photoshop? When have I ever photoshoped?

All you need to do is bring LRMs to a fight that has no AMS.
No AMS, ideally no or minimal ECM, and fire. Just like any other weapon it has a chance of succeeding or failing. Success is just quite a bit higher when the missiles aren't being shot down 5 to 15 at a time by local AMS use. Supplement multiple mechs doing this while escorted by some laser meta providing both direct fire and defense and you'd have a hard nut to crack.

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and now suddenly you need to be "escorted" by laser meta for it to maybe work which is protesting a bit too much my dude

Stinger554, on 16 February 2018 - 07:25 AM, said:

Essentially the only time I've been killed by LRMs is on Polar and even then it's when there's like 3+ LRM boats firing missiles at me and my teammates don't push them.

for real. also occasionally if you're at the wrong end of a stomp an LRM boat might get the last kill but I don't think "one missile took off your last bit of HP when you're outnumbered 10-1" is much of an endorsement

Edited by poopenshire, 16 February 2018 - 08:41 AM.

[Koniving]

pattonesque, on 16 February 2018 - 07:30 AM, said:

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and now suddenly you need to be "escorted" by laser meta for it to maybe work which is protesting a bit too much my dude

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And it was not photoshopped.
Text was copy/pasted as shown, hence the formatting mess in the thread.

Edited by poopenshire, 16 February 2018 - 08:41 AM.

[pattonesque]

Koniving, on 16 February 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

And it was not photoshopped.
Text was copy/pasted as shown, hence the formatting mess in the thread.

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Edited by poopenshire, 16 February 2018 - 08:30 AM.

[Stinger554]

Koniving, on 16 February 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

And it was not photoshopped.
Text was copy/pasted as shown, hence the formatting mess in the thread.

Koniving that KD ratio is wrong mathematically....and I doubt it's the website...

5308/3970 != 1.71...it does equal 1.34.

Edited by poopenshire, 16 February 2018 - 08:26 AM.

[pattonesque]

Stinger554, on 16 February 2018 - 07:49 AM, said:

Koniving that KD ratio is wrong mathematically....and I doubt it's the website...

5308/3970 != 1.71...it does equal 1.34.

it's almost like he tried to photoshop it!

[Stinger554]

pattonesque, on 16 February 2018 - 07:33 AM, said:

for real. also occasionally if you're at the wrong end of a stomp an LRM boat might get the last kill but I don't think "one missile took off your last bit of HP when you're outnumbered 10-1" is much of an endorsement

It's why LRMs need a buff. An entire weapon class that is super situational like LRMs is just bad.

[Gas Guzzler]

Novakaine, on 16 February 2018 - 06:22 AM, said:

No skill my rear exhaust port.
I love it when the point and click laser easy more slobs jump in☺

Yeah dude, no skill. There is no skill required in aiming and firing Lurms. Don't have to keep steady, don't have to lead targets based on movement, nothing.

[pattonesque]

Stinger554, on 16 February 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

It's why LRMs need a buff. An entire weapon class that is super situational like LRMs is just bad.

Yeah they're extremely weak to the point of near-uselessness (save for a few people like Jman who can use them incredibly well) at higher levels of play but at lower levels inexperienced players get absolutely wrecked by them. I feel like maybe there's a way to make them follow your reticle when you're direct-firing them, which might allow good players to reduce the issue of their spreading damage everywhere, but even then you'd have to stare to do that.

Gas Guzzler, on 16 February 2018 - 08:01 AM, said:

Yeah dude, no skill. There is no skill required in aiming and firing Lurms. Don't have to keep steady, don't have to lead targets based on movement, nothing.

I would say that what skill is involved is more about map knowledge, keeping an effective distance, and which target to choose. I can tell when a bad lurmboat is on the field because they'll target me at the beginning of the match and then never switch to another target even when I'm chilling behind a wall and their lurms slam uselessly into it.

But of course all those skills also apply to direct-fire builds, plus the added burden of having to aim.

Edited by pattonesque, 16 February 2018 - 08:06 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

pattonesque, on 16 February 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

I would say that what skill is involved is more about map knowledge, keeping an effective distance, and which target to choose. I can tell when a bad lurmboat is on the field because they'll target me at the beginning of the match and then never switch to another target even when I'm chilling behind a wall and their lurms slam uselessly into it.

But of course all those skills also apply to direct-fire builds, plus the added burden of having to aim.

Yeah sure, but like you said that also applies to direct fire builds. And I did specify "aiming and firing".

[pattonesque]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 February 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

Yeah sure, but like you said that also applies to direct fire builds. And I did specify "aiming and firing".

no doubt

also I have seen people with arm-mounted LRMs quickly flick their arms up, fire, and flick them back when trying to angle missiles over high cover without losing a lock, but I honestly have no idea if it makes a difference

[Burke IV]

pattonesque, on 16 February 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

I feel like maybe there's a way to make them follow your reticle when you're direct-firing them

Is this true? I always thought they went where you aimed when you fired. A very long time ago LRMs went to the componant you were tagging (i think?) Been a long time sinse i even tryed to make use of that tho and it may well be gone.

pattonesque, on 16 February 2018 - 08:16 AM, said:

no doubt

also I have seen people with arm-mounted LRMs quickly flick their arms up, fire, and flick them back when trying to angle missiles over high cover without losing a lock, but I honestly have no idea if it makes a difference

I think they took that out aswell.

[pattonesque]

Burke IV, on 16 February 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:

Is this true? I always thought they went where you aimed when you fired. A very long time ago LRMs went to the componant you were tagging (i think?) Been a long time sinse i even tryed to make use of that tho and it may well be gone.

It isn't now, but I'm talking about a theoretical rework

[Stinger554]

pattonesque, on 16 February 2018 - 08:16 AM, said:

no doubt

also I have seen people with arm-mounted LRMs quickly flick their arms up, fire, and flick them back when trying to angle missiles over high cover without losing a lock, but I honestly have no idea if it makes a difference

It's much harder to do that currently PGI nerfed it, but it's possible to do.

Burke IV, on 16 February 2018 - 08:21 AM, said:

Is this true? I always thought they went where you aimed when you fired. A very long time ago LRMs went to the componant you were tagging (i think?) Been a long time sinse i even tryed to make use of that tho and it may well be gone.



I think they took that out aswell.

Tag still does this I believe that the tracking strength got reduced though; so it's not super accurate.

[poopenshire]

[mod]

I am opening this up again.

Please remember if something is a violation, hit the report button. It is not acceptable to point it out in posts and only serves to derail threads more.

I have cleaned it up a little bit and may come back later to clean it up more.

Please keep the discussion on topic, without calling out players for perceived skill. Remember we don't know and don't see all that goes on, and other players perceptions are just as valid as yours.

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Edited by poopenshire, 16 February 2018 - 10:05 AM.

[Burke IV]

Stinger554, on 16 February 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

It's much harder to do that currently PGI nerfed it, but it's possible to do.


Tag still does this I believe that the tracking strength got reduced though; so it's not super accurate.

Right. And i think its less relevant to clan LRMs anyway but if you happen to have tag mixed in with your lasers and you give the target a poke at about the same time as the LRMs land you can get results.

Edited by Burke IV, 16 February 2018 - 08:41 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

also I have seen people with arm-mounted LRMs quickly flick their arms up, fire, and flick them back when trying to angle missiles over high cover without losing a lock, but I honestly have no idea if it makes a difference

It did, and it does, but it got nerfed along with Artemis.

Apparently Chris thought it was too good once ATMs showed up.

As to the "no-skill aiming getting a no-skill counter": We're currently talking about a weapon so poorly statted that most people don't even consider AMS other than wasted tonnage, because there's only one real weapon that actually makes it meaningful right now.

And it's ATMs, not LRMs. Meanwhile, Paul balances LRMs on people who neither seem to have the basic capacity to avoid getting rained on or generally equip counters, rather than oh, just making sure the baby's sandbox is full of Trials all equipped with AMS to compensate.

(That Trials tend to be meta builds that overcook themselves minus skill nodes is another thing, but I always thought such builds should be tuned to be forgiving of their heat output, equipped with AMS training wheels, and not prone to instant XL kills.)

Edited by Brain Cancer, 16 February 2018 - 12:42 PM.

[Metus regem]

Brain Cancer, on 16 February 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

(That Trials tend to be meta builds that overcook themselves minus skill nodes is another thing, but I always thought such builds should be tuned to be forgiving of their heat output, equipped with AMS training wheels, and not prone to instant XL kills.)

Sounds like every trial mech I ever submitted...

I always tried to submit things that had 2-3 different weapon types, so that the new guys could see what they liked better...

But well since they were not "meta' builds, or people couldn't see the reasoning behind them, they never got the votes from the community...

[Khobai]

Brain Cancer, on 16 February 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

because there's only one real weapon that actually makes it meaningful right now.

And it's ATMs, not LRMs.

Even so, ATMs need some major changes.

3 damage bracket is outright broken. And CLRMs doing more damage under 120m than ATMs makes no sense at all.

Instead of a 0 damage deadzone, ATMs should have damage dropoff under 120m like CLRMs do.

ATMs should also only do 2.5 damage at short range instead of 3. And 1.5 damage at long range instead of 1.

ATMs need 50% increased missile health too so AMS doesnt destroy them.

Lastly ATMs should have their max range reduced to 810m. Because they shouldnt outrange LRMs.

Those changes would help make ATMs into the versatile jack-of-all-trades missile system theyre supposed to be instead of the completely niche missile system they are now.

Edited by Khobai, 16 February 2018 - 01:17 PM.