72 replies to this topic

[LT. HARDCASE]

Samial, on 16 February 2018 - 11:47 PM, said:

We really don't need to buff overpowered clanners any more they already get insane builds... insane weapons as well no thanks.

It would be closer to garbage than overpowered.

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 17 February 2018 - 12:47 PM.

[Khobai]

super trash flinger gauss rifle

so op

[Brain Cancer]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 February 2018 - 07:58 AM, said:

Do HAGs have guidance? No? Bad comparison.

Not even talking guidance, but the fact that LRMs didn't get grouped into 5-point (or fractions therein) flights like they do in TT.

That is, I expect they'll just make it a straight up LB-X style weapon with possibly funky spread patterns as HAGs normally get a bonus at short and a penalty at long for number of hits to target.

[Y E O N N E]

Brain Cancer, on 17 February 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

Not even talking guidance, but the fact that LRMs didn't get grouped into 5-point (or fractions therein) flights like they do in TT.

That is, I expect they'll just make it a straight up LB-X style weapon with possibly funky spread patterns as HAGs normally get a bonus at short and a penalty at long for number of hits to target.

The Gauss LB-X is the Silver Bullet Gauss, not the HAG. Scattershot is not how HAGs have ever been described.

[Khobai]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 February 2018 - 06:04 PM, said:

Scattershot is not how HAGs have ever been described.

Its strongly implied in the rules. Since it gets modifiers that increase the number of projectiles that hit at short range and reduce the number of projectiles that hit at long range.

That means its scattershot. But its spread is tighter than an LBX at short range and wider than an LBX at long range.

Its also implied it fires 40 submutions. The reason for 5 point groupings is more for record keeping purposes so you dont have to roll the dice 40 times for hit locations. That wouldve been absurd.

Plus read the first line of the rules. It clearly says its using cluster munitions but unlike other weapons that also use cluster munitions it has some slightly different rules.

Unlike some other weapons using cluster munitions, there is no modifier on the initial attack roll. However, when a hit is scored, a Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle receives a +2 modifier on the Cluster Hits table at short range, and a –2 modifier at long range. Modified rolls above 12 or below 2 are treated as a 12 or 2 respectively. Damage location is then determined in 5-point groups plus any remainder below 5 being the final roll.

Edited by Khobai, 17 February 2018 - 09:01 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 17 February 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

Its strongly implied in the rules.

No, it's not. Not at all. You can have multiple projectiles that hit different locations without being scatter-shot. The simple fact is that they knew that weapon would be ridiculously powerful if it was counted as a single hit, so they made it use the cluster hits and all the related mechanics to balance it out. Period.

The descriptive fluff for the HAG has it being a rapid-fire weapon, not a shotgun.

Silver Bullet is the shotgun.

The end.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 17 February 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

Its also implied it fires 40 submutions. The reason for 5 point groupings is more for record keeping purposes so you dont have to roll the dice 40 times for hit locations.

Who said it can't just be a stream of 40 (probably with some CoF) instead of a buckshot?

[Khobai]

Quote

Who said it can't just be a stream of 40 (probably with some CoF) instead of a buckshot?

Thats exactly how its supposed to work

I just dont think the game could handle that many projectiles flying around at once

[InspectorG]

LT. HARDCASE, on 16 February 2018 - 02:30 PM, said:

Sure, put them in, I want all TT weapons in MWO. I'm not sure how a long range streamed pellet weapon would translate, but let's do it.

Best, most menacing name in Battletech, Hyper Assault Gauss Rifle. Would be a shame if PGI turned them into limp noodles.

Inferno SRMS would be the lollest of the lols.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 17 February 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

Thats exactly how its supposed to work

I just dont think the game could handle that many projectiles flying around at once

So break it into chunks of 5 damage. HAG-40 is now 8 projectiles. It can certainly handle 8 projectiles.

[LordNothing]

ok but i want one of these:

xpulse
bombast
blazer

[Khobai]

Quote

So break it into chunks of 5 damage. HAG-40 is now 8 projectiles. It can certainly handle 8 projectiles.

we have that weapon already. the CUAC20. fires 8 projectiles at 5 damage each.

it would be completely boring making the HAG do the same thing as that.

If anything it should work like a gauss RAC. chargeup then it fires a bunch of hitscan garbage out. then goes on cooldown.

Edited by Khobai, 18 February 2018 - 02:12 AM.

[Kargush]

Make it a burst MG with charge-up. Charge, bump out 20/30/40 (depending on class) shots in a CoF with no way to stop the stream once you release. MG-style damage per shot, maybe make it 10-shot bursts. So for the HAG 40, you charge, dump 10 shots, 10 more, 10 more, 10 more, click. Throw in a, say, .3 second delay between each burst, with each burst having a set duration (perhaps dependent on class?).

A burst RAC, more or less.

[Revis Volek]

Andi Nagasia, on 16 February 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

i would support this,


as well as Light AC2/5 for IS, perhaps MMLs, and MG Arrays for both Sides,

What is the point of MG arrays when we have weapon groups in this game? It literally does nothing we dont already have.

Based on this description below, any number of MG's in a weapon group and fired in this game is already a MG array. SO why waste tonnage or slots or whatever we want it to be on something that any mouse buttom already does for free. No tonnage, no dev time.

This is silly to me to want MG ARRAYS


The Machine Gun Array (MGA) was developed in 3068 by the Federated Suns. Despite that, the Taurian Concordat was actually the first power to use them, as they had pilfered the technology from the FedSuns and were able to quickly reverse engineer and put it into production. Clan Diamond Shark also created an identical Clan version that was unveiled around roughly the same time.^[2]
The Machine Gun Array itself allows two to four machine guns of the same type (standard, light, or heavy) to be linked and fired as one.^[2]

Edited by Revis Volek, 18 February 2018 - 07:45 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

The worst part is he wants MG Arrays for both sides.

Ah, yes, let's see if we can't get even more MGs onto a Piranha!

Or a Shadow Cat!

[Brain Cancer]

Revis Volek, on 18 February 2018 - 07:43 AM, said:

What is the point of MG arrays when we have weapon groups in this game? It literally does nothing we dont already have.

If each hardpoint has an MG array vs a single MG, it means MG spam becomes giga dakka, assuming you've got the tonnage.

You can have a x4 array. Six hardpoints = 24 MGs.

[FupDup]

I don't think MG Arrays will turn out the way of "2-4 MGs per hardpoint" because of how the MLX-G was added. Canonically it has its arm MGs linked to arrays, meaning that PGI would have to nerf it to just 1 hardpoint per arm since it mounted twin Heavy MG Arrays in its stock form (Omnis cannot have HP inflation in PGI's rules). This also applies to the ACH-E.

I guess arrays could alternatively function as a sort of MG-Artemis where your spread gets heavily reduced if you pay the tonnage and slot tax for arrays, but you still need individual ballistic hardpoints per MG inside that array. Maybe throw in a range boost if needed.

Edited by FupDup, 18 February 2018 - 01:36 PM.

[Angus McFife VI]

Khobai, on 17 February 2018 - 08:40 PM, said:

Its strongly implied in the rules. Since it gets modifiers that increase the number of projectiles that hit at short range and reduce the number of projectiles that hit at long range.

That means its scattershot. But its spread is tighter than an LBX at short range and wider than an LBX at long range.

Its also implied it fires 40 submutions. The reason for 5 point groupings is more for record keeping purposes so you dont have to roll the dice 40 times for hit locations. That wouldve been absurd.

Plus read the first line of the rules. It clearly says its using cluster munitions but unlike other weapons that also use cluster munitions it has some slightly different rules.

Unlike some other weapons using cluster munitions, there is no modifier on the initial attack roll. However, when a hit is scored, a Hyper-Assault Gauss Rifle receives a +2 modifier on the Cluster Hits table at short range, and a –2 modifier at long range. Modified rolls above 12 or below 2 are treated as a 12 or 2 respectively. Damage location is then determined in 5-point groups plus any remainder below 5 being the final roll.

No it's just full-auto so the damage spreads around

[The6thMessenger]

Andi Nagasia, on 16 February 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

i would support this,


as well as Light AC2/5 for IS, perhaps MMLs, and MG Arrays for both Sides,

Yuuup, the Light ACs as the answer to lighter clan ACs, MG arrays -- assuming that they are multiple MGs in 1 hardpoint meaning we can answer clan MG-boat as IS.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 18 February 2018 - 08:32 PM.

[DerMaulwurf]

Make them

Khobai, on 17 February 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

Thats exactly how its supposed to work

I just dont think the game could handle that many projectiles flying around at once

The game can handle RACs just fine.

Give HAGs higher reliability through projectile speed and no jam (=no shooting after the gauge maxes out). While RACs get the pure damage potential.