45 replies to this topic

[Sjorpha]

Tonnage difference needs to stay put for as long as the tech is as unbalanced as it is, a clan dropdeck is still more powerful than an is dropdeck right now.

If they balance the tech to be equally good then sure tonnage can be equalized after that.

[Grus]

Sjorpha, on 21 February 2018 - 03:52 AM, said:

Tonnage difference needs to stay put for as long as the tech is as unbalanced as it is, a clan dropdeck is still more powerful than an is dropdeck right now.

If they balance the tech to be equally good then sure tonnage can be equalized after that.

keep in mind the tonnage difference from clan to IS is due to population not tech (per PGI).

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Grus, on 21 February 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

keep in mind the tonnage difference from clan to IS is due to population not tech (per PGI).

Yes, the stated reason is population. That doesn’t get to the “reason” of why units would massively lean Clan at say 250 v. 250....which is because at even weight the Clans would definitely be favored and nobody likes to lose. As much as I was a critic of 265 v. 240, I have to admit that many units seem to play both sides reasonably consistently (and seem to get reasonable results) with the status quo on weight. Of course maybe tech changes is a more ideal solution, but it seems that PGI has gotten away with using weight as a way to help balance population.

[Sjorpha]

Grus, on 21 February 2018 - 11:25 AM, said:

keep in mind the tonnage difference from clan to IS is due to population not tech (per PGI).

So what?

Their motivation doesn't change the fact that clan tech being stronger per ton is more than enough compensation for the tonnage difference.

[Johnathan Tanner]

Sjorpha, on 21 February 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

So what?

Their motivation doesn't change the fact that clan tech being stronger per ton is more than enough compensation for the tonnage difference.

Actually its not. When teams are of equal skill. Tonnage becomes a deciding factor. Choke em with hitpoints is a very real IS strategy now.

[Grus]

Johnathan Tanner, on 21 February 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

Actually its not. When teams are of equal skill. Tonnage becomes a deciding factor. Choke em with hitpoints is a very real IS strategy now.

this ^^ the amount of "chewing" required to kill 12 ANH twice is crazy. thats why if im DC'ing i just hit the gens and win that way, use their lack of speed against them.

[Yondu Udonta]

Grus, on 21 February 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

this ^^ the amount of "chewing" required to kill 12 ANH twice is crazy. thats why if im DC'ing i just hit the gens and win that way, use their lack of speed against them.

It's not just the assaults that require chewing. A DRG-5N's CT has 96hp of armor with 0 points in the survival tree. Not that you should be targeting the CT to kill a meta 5N but IS mechs have a **** ton of armor. Only reason why my average damage in a FP match is higher as a Clanner than as IS.

Edited by Yondu the Ravager, 21 February 2018 - 08:36 PM.

[Grus]

Well the Tonnage difference isnt the "hill i want to die on" (good term btw) but i would REALLY like to see better rewards for units staying loyal to a faction for a period of time. Would be nice if the longer you've stayed the better the rewards, but i know thats just a dream.

[Grus]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 21 February 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

Yes, the stated reason is population. That doesn’t get to the “reason” of why units would massively lean Clan at say 250 v. 250....which is because at even weight the Clans would definitely be favored and nobody likes to lose. As much as I was a critic of 265 v. 240, I have to admit that many units seem to play both sides reasonably consistently (and seem to get reasonable results) with the status quo on weight. Of course maybe tech changes is a more ideal solution, but it seems that PGI has gotten away with using weight as a way to help balance population.

sorry missed this, well even at 250 i dont think it would effect the MS Cyclops and crab rush

[Sjorpha]

Johnathan Tanner, on 21 February 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

Actually its not. When teams are of equal skill. Tonnage becomes a deciding factor. Choke em with hitpoints is a very real IS strategy now.

That's not my experience, when I fight with MJ12 against equal units we win more easily on the clan side. The superior firepower, range and mobility lets you chew through those extra hitpoints very fast and win enough trades.

Now it's not a big advantage, thanks to the tonnage difference, but it's still an advantage and it's still tilted a bit towards the clan side.

Edited by Sjorpha, 23 February 2018 - 03:25 PM.

[r4zen]

Sjorpha, on 23 February 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

That's not my experience, when I fight with MJ12 against equal units we win more easily on the clan side. The superior firepower, range and mobility lets you chew through those extra hitpoints very fast and win enough trades.

Now it's not a big advantage, thanks to the tonnage difference, but it's still an advantage and it's still tilted a bit towards the clan side.

Mostly agree with you, but I think generally teams aren't specializing very hard and so generally Tanner is correct - 90% of the time equally skilled teams on IS can find a way to take away Clan advantages and snowball the tonnage.

being 24-24 after the 2nd wave means that Clan only have a heavy and light or medium and light left, or even light-light (hi, Heavy Cav) while IS will have their heavy-med or heavy-heavy left - and those mediums or if it's a light will be hard af for Clans to kill.

[Grus]

r4zen, on 23 February 2018 - 03:57 PM, said:

Mostly agree with you, but I think generally teams aren't specializing very hard and so generally Tanner is correct - 90% of the time equally skilled teams on IS can find a way to take away Clan advantages and snowball the tonnage.

being 24-24 after the 2nd wave means that Clan only have a heavy and light or medium and light left, or even light-light (hi, Heavy Cav) while IS will have their heavy-med or heavy-heavy left - and those mediums or if it's a light will be hard af for Clans to kill.

^^ this, its the tail end where you're fighting in a light and theirs still heavies and or meds on the field. on the front end it can bees seen as a balancing factor, but once you're wave 3-4 that a steep hill (hp) to climb.

[r4zen]

Grus, on 23 February 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

but once you're wave 3-4 that a steep hill (hp) to climb.

Especially with quirks. Yes, it's only a 300 ton total difference, but in those 300 tons there's probably 450+ tons worth of armor and structure to chew through.

[Yondu Udonta]

r4zen, on 23 February 2018 - 03:57 PM, said:

IS will have their heavy-med or heavy-heavy left - and those mediums or if it's a light will be hard af for Clans to kill.

Perhaps it would be nice if Clans had an assassin like mech that could punch above its weight class(no the ACW does not qualify). It would really help since Clans generally have to frontload their tonnage to go up against IS assaults.

[Willard Phule]

Sjorpha, on 21 February 2018 - 03:52 AM, said:

Tonnage difference needs to stay put for as long as the tech is as unbalanced as it is, a clan dropdeck is still more powerful than an is dropdeck right now.

If they balance the tech to be equally good then sure tonnage can be equalized after that.

It might be better if they reduced the Clans to maybe 150-160 tons and increased the IS to 600 tons per drop deck. Then we won't hear "Clan OP" all the damn time. Scouting should go to 15 tons for clan and 100 tons for IS.

[Grus]

Willard Phule, on 27 February 2018 - 11:13 PM, said:

It might be better if they reduced the Clans to maybe 150-160 tons and increased the IS to 600 tons per drop deck. Then we won't hear "Clan OP" all the damn time. Scouting should go to 15 tons for clan and 100 tons for IS.

does this mean we get the firemoth and or I can be in a elemental?

[Grus]

I mean I get what that guy is getting at, but it depends on the pilot and the match. I've had games where I brought all heavies and a med. Got 6 kills and over 2k damage done. Other games it's the standard assault, heavy med light and I struggle to brake 1.5k and get more than 4 kills. But the same can be said for IS.

[Sniper09121986]

Grus, on 28 February 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

does this mean we get the firemoth and or I can be in a elemental?

Much better, it means we get the http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sprite and his little brothers

[Grus]

Sniper09121986, on 28 February 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

Much better, it means we get the http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sprite and his little brothers

54kph? Aww that's so slow!

[ccrider]

How many teams are actually running 12 annihilators effectively? On attack they are slow as crap, and on defense they are limited by speed and torso pitch. Perhaps well run on vitric or sulpherous they are tough but I'm not convinced that they are the unstoppable force that just wrecks clanners. The other thread has a ton of counters to them. Unless you are CbR and your plan is face tank the enemy, annihilators seem like a weird boogey man.