120 replies to this topic

[Spare Parts Bin]

Hobbles v, on 23 February 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

Try playing a mech built around one type of weapon system. Say your direwolf with lasers missles and lbxs. Instead just run a bunch of autocannons and nothing else. You will find it so much easier to aim.

I hate running out of ammo. I always carry back-up weapons.

In IS builds I would like to try dual AC-5s,dual LLs,and MRM10s.

Edited by Spare Parts Bin, 23 February 2018 - 08:01 PM.

[CFC Conky]

justcallme A S H, on 23 February 2018 - 01:36 AM, said:

Without being rude, there are far better streamers to watch if you want to learn/improve at the game.

Bearclaw / Juju / TheB33f / Writhen / Solitude / Machiina

Etc. All are top level players you wanna learn from and if you ask they will run you through stuff generally. Hell even watch mine (just getting started recently). Although mine is more Oceanic time right now

Hi Ash,

No worries, you were not being rude. The point I was trying to make is that builds with two or three different weapon types are more efficient/effective than builds with more. The other streamers you mention do the same and one can learn a lot from watching all of them.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Horseman]

Spare Parts Bin, on 23 February 2018 - 04:59 PM, said:

I hate running out of ammo. I always carry back-up weapons.

The question is always: how much ammo, how many back-up weapons (and of what type)
Also, note that every ton spent on back-up weapons is a ton not spent on ammo and/or cooling for your main weapons.

Quote

In IS builds I would like to try dual AC-5s,dual LLs,and MRM10s.

Minus the MRM10, Dragon 5N can do that. Dragon 1N also can, but it does better with UAC/10 (due to its' jam chance quirk).

Edited by Horseman, 25 February 2018 - 10:50 AM.

[Throe]

I've been doing this for a while, mostly because I can only fit 3 weapon groups into my brain. My mouse has 5 buttons, and my fingers can easily reach at least 2 weapon groups, but my brain simply can't handle more than 3 weapon groups(and that's pushing it).

I much prefer two. Usually, when I'm running 3, it's usually because I have mouse 1 and 2 assigned to some direct fire weapons(lasers/ACs), and missiles on a keyboard button.

But it's definitely worth "boating" a specific weapon type. As much effort as the developers have put into discouraging it, it's still often the best way to go, so long as you can either find a non-ghost-heat build, or just have enough self control to avoid ghost-heat on an offending build. I usually opt for the former. One of my favorites is the Dual LB-20-X AC Hunchback IIC.(on the subject of backup weapons, I use it with a HML).

Edited by Throe, 24 February 2018 - 12:33 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

CFC Conky, on 23 February 2018 - 10:42 PM, said:

Hi Ash,

No worries, you were not being rude. The point I was trying to make is that builds with two or three different weapon types are more efficient/effective than builds with more. The other streamers you mention do the same and one can learn a lot from watching all of them.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

You will find most of the top guys run no more than two weapon types. For good reason, it's.most powerful. 3+ is weak.

Also to the other posts. Forget LBX2. They are rubbish. After being absolutely decimated in a private lobby against AC2, one should finally accept they are garbage and well, stop making bad suggestions.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 24 February 2018 - 04:50 AM.

[Spare Parts Bin]

justcallme A S H, on 24 February 2018 - 04:49 AM, said:

You will find most of the top guys run no more than two weapon types. For good reason, it's.most powerful. 3+ is weak.

Also to the other posts. Forget LBX2. They are rubbish. After being absolutely decimated in a private lobby against AC2, one should finally accept they are garbage and well, stop making bad suggestions.

I am listening to your opinions as well folks like Snuggles Time,Koniving,and others. Ash you say LBX-2s are junk,Koniving likes them. Snuggles Time hates missles period on assault Mechs. Molten Metal likes IS LLs and MRMs together others say Ballistics and MRMs. No offense, it takes time to understand what people are saying. I know I don't have all the answers just a piece of the puzzle. My desire is to not have to learn everything by experience but short circuit the process and learn from others. In short I am trying to reach Tier 4.

For the record I have never been in a private lobby in MWO.

Edited by Spare Parts Bin, 24 February 2018 - 06:45 AM.

[Metus regem]

Bin,

Don't worry about what people think are good / bad as far as weapons go, play what you like. You will eventually reach T1 as the PSR system is weighted to make you move up over time.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Metus regem, on 24 February 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

Bin,

Don't worry about what people think are good / bad as far as weapons go, play what you like. You will eventually reach T1 as the PSR system is weighted to make you move up over time.

Thank You, the idea of reaching Tier 3 from Tier 5 seems like a glimpse of Heaven or a wonderful dream.

Edited by Spare Parts Bin, 24 February 2018 - 08:07 AM.

[General Solo]

If you perform no one will mention ur build
1000 damge wid (^(^(^&(
sweet

[Horseman]

Spare Parts Bin, on 24 February 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

Snuggles Time hates missles period on assault Mechs.

Mostly because too many awful players like putting lurms on assault mechs not suited for it and then fail to do anything remotely useful for their team. LRMs are not a bad weapon per se, but require some map knowledge and boating them on mechs that aren't specifically quirked for it (compare AS7-S - the memetic "LRM Atlas" - vs AWS-8R which actually has quirks and hardpoints for the job) is a waste of tonnage. Not only that, if you build a LRM boat assault, you should still play it quite aggressively, going for 300-500m range.

Edited by Horseman, 24 February 2018 - 12:33 PM.

[HammerMaster]

2 or 3 is very common. More can be done. Diminishing returns pops up very much so. Even my lrm heavy rigs. 2 brackets. Now if I run acs you have a 3rd or 4th. You don't use lasers unless out of ammo. Thats the hang up.
K.I.S.S principle.
I'll post some builds for you when I'm not on phone internets.

Edited by HammerMaster, 24 February 2018 - 09:22 AM.

[SilentFenris]

Spare Parts Bin, on 24 February 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

I am listening to your opinions as well folks like Snuggles Time,Koniving,and others. Ash you say LBX-2s are junk,Koniving likes them. Snuggles Time hates missles period on assault Mechs. Molten Metal likes IS LLs and MRMs together others say Ballistics and MRMs. No offense, it takes time to understand what people are saying. I know I don't have all the answers just a piece of the puzzle. My desire is to not have to learn everything by experience but short circuit the process and learn from others. In short I am trying to reach Tier 4.

For the record I have never been in a private lobby in MWO.

Regarding climbing tiers - increasing from Tier 3 to 2 was quicker for me than Tier 4 to 3 or Tier 5 to 4. I have kids to take care of now so I play a lot fewer matches. But Tier is basically just an XP bar. Yes, there are less mechs walking into walls at Tier 2 than Tier 5, but there are just as many bad drops with no team cooperation/coordination, and there are still bad attitudes and trash-talkers.

Joining a public teamspeak server to drop with a coordinated group is the best way to increase your tier quickly if that matters to you. This is an old thread with a list of servers https://mwomercs.com...mspeak-servers/

Metus regem, on 24 February 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

Bin,

Don't worry about what people think are good / bad as far as weapons go, play what you like. You will eventually reach T1 as the PSR system is weighted to make you move up over time.

I second Metus on this. Just because players can put up good numbers doesn't mean you will enjoy copying their build and playstyle. LRM boating and gauss snipers bore me to tears but they were both the meta for a time.

MWO is a game, unless you are playing the pro circuit for money the point is to have fun right?

Edited by SilentFenris, 24 February 2018 - 09:59 AM.

[HammerMaster]

Spare Parts Bin, on 24 February 2018 - 06:55 AM, said:

Thank You, the idea of reaching Tier 3 from Tier 5 seems like a glimpse of Heaven or a wonderful dream.

Hahahaha! It's not wonderful though.

Edited by HammerMaster, 24 February 2018 - 09:58 AM.

[Koniving]

Said private lobby UAC/2 build nearly killed itself for me several times.

In one versus one, yes it is superior as I told Bin, also warned him of the heat, the need for coolshots, and other things I had noted (including the LFE versus my XL) as well as the discovery that the constant pelting will throw aim off (which explains why macro firing any class 2 autocannon type is apparently getting popular again).

Each setup has its own merits. The weapons really depend on the player, the playstyle and the situation. There's no denying that in a one versus one scenario, the quad UAC/2 is superior. (Was able to win one of those fights, destroying both an ST and CT while nearly cored once the skill tree was enabled. But for the most part with quirks/skills off, the UAC/2 is flatout superior once within 600 meters. The constant barrage of fire made it impossible to maintain on target against it.)

The LBX-2 rig is better suited for longer ranges (after unlocking the spread nodes), as they are within Battletech, as beyond 800 meters per firing the damage drops to 1 damage per LBX-2 at 1600 meters, while the UAC/2 drops to 0 damage at that range. This is why the UAC/2 build didn't really do much until closing within 600 meters where consistently hitting could be done. (Also was shown that there's a way to hit rear torso from the front, which is really screwed up as that really messes with the versatility of the Rifleman as a cover-shooter when the radar bar counts as rear torso even from the front.) It is also better suited for finishing off a mech that is already weakened and engaging multiple targets. (In the fights, though the UAC/2 build has shut off several times and nearly blew itself up on more than one occasion, the LBX build never got higher than 38% heat, meaning it would have more endurance and less down time.)

If the goal is to do as much damage as possible or quickly kill one maybe guys, fizzle out and die the 4 UAC/2 build has you covered. Less aggressively it can certainly do okay to pretty good, but it needs to be super close to the front lines for full effectiveness, likely best in the company of something bigger to protect it against enemies when it shuts down because, unfortunately, it will shut down. From what I seen I gotta give it credit, there was always at least one UAC/2 functional at all times rather than a 100% jam nothing fires like I thought there would be even with the quirks and nodes off.

Like a debate between an M249 and an assault rifle and their practical uses, each performs better in different situations with ideal scenarios for each.

Edited by Koniving, 24 February 2018 - 10:46 AM.

[CFC Conky]

Spare Parts Bin, on 24 February 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

I am listening to your opinions as well folks like Snuggles Time,Koniving,and others. Ash you say LBX-2s are junk,Koniving likes them. Snuggles Time hates missles period on assault Mechs. Molten Metal likes IS LLs and MRMs together others say Ballistics and MRMs. No offense, it takes time to understand what people are saying. I know I don't have all the answers just a piece of the puzzle. My desire is to not have to learn everything by experience but short circuit the process and learn from others. In short I am trying to reach Tier 4.

For the record I have never been in a private lobby in MWO.

Hi Bin,

In my opinion, there are just too many variables in the game for there to be hard and fast rules on builds. ASH has some very useful advice, as do many others on this forum. That said, there are some builds that I would not use. For example, Baradul runs fun builds, but he likes to run with low leg armor whereas I prefer to run full leg armor, or close to it. Another example is the LB10-X; many players on the forums posit that it is a terrible weapon for all kinds of reasons. Logically, the weapon has many flaws so they are not wrong, yet it is my favorite ballistic weapon and my best-performing medium mech is the BSW-P2 with 2xLB10-X and 2xMPL. It's my go-to mech for scouting. Go figure.

I the end, I consider all the advice given by more experienced players, then tailor that advice to how I like to play the game.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 24 February 2018 - 11:47 AM.

[Koniving]

Couldn't have said it better. Take input, tailor it to how you play. What works for some won't necessarily work for others, much like what works for those may or may not work for yet another player or group of players. Take advice, tailor it to your own needs, and experiment.

On light leg armor:

Spoiler

(Side note: Light leg armor is quite a trend, I do believe some of my more aggressive rigs would probably be less successful if players didn't have such a habit of skimping leg armor. One of the things I do when I do find myself seemingly outmatched is to just graze the leg, if it turns dark yellow or worse too easily, all my firepower will suddenly go straight for the legs.

Learned that one all too well in one of my first runs with the Illya Muromets when I went toe to toe against an Atlas with AC/20, 3 SRM-6s and 2 medium lasers with my own AC/20, twin MGs and 3 medium lasers. Between hill fighting with rising/lowering elevation, close range fighting, the long firing delays on lasers and AC/20 in which he literally counted the seconds and could swing his arms in the way of my incoming AC/20 without even having to torso twist, meanwhile I'm having to twist and raise my arms up when his SRM volleys came.. With just 2 medium lasers and an MG left over, I noticed his leg was pretty badly hurt despite barely touching it. And that was literally how I turned the fight around, some shots to each leg did him in just in the knick of time, a single medium laser left.

His arm defending looked like a lazy left hook into the AC/20 shell, literally punching the bullet. First and only time I had ever seen an Atlas's arm completely destroyed without blowing the side torso off first. Never seen anyone with that kind of skill in defense ever since. Sadly in today's HSR setup, it is now impossible to do defense this way as you must have your defensive motion started before they fire or it won't count).

[Spare Parts Bin]

CFC Conky, on 24 February 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

Hi Bin,

In my opinion, there are just too many variables in the game for there to be hard and fast rules on builds. ASH has some very useful advice, as do many others on this forum. That said, there are some builds that I would not use. For example, Baradul runs fun builds, but he likes to run with low leg armor whereas I prefer to run full leg armor, or close to it. Another example is the LB10-X; many players on the forums posit that it is a terrible weapon for all kind of reasons. Logically, the weapon has many flaws so they are not wrong, yet it is my favorite ballistic weapon and my best-performing medium mech is the BSW-P2 with 2xLB10-X and 2xMPL. It's my go-to mech for scouting. Go figure.

I the end, I consider all the advice given by more experienced players, then tailor that advice to how I like to play the game.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Thank you CFC Conky. I am here to learn and try. As for the UAC-2 a test of 5 games in order. Will report my results.

[jss78]

I'm a bit of a lore nerd, and I've REALLY tried to make bracket builds work in MWO.

IMO, the situation is that they do work, but they don't work well enough.

With that I mean, you DO get those situations where you can, for example, fire those long-bracket LRM's while closing in. Without the LRM's, you would've missed that bit of damage.

But to me that's just not worth losing that focused punch. MWO is a first-person shooter and this has unavoidable consequences on game play. We make use of cover to a level of detail not simulated in tabletop (peeking and poking). And unlike tabletop, we're able to relatively reliably hit the same component with all weapons. Both of these mean you want that focused punch, to make use of your 2-second exposure and cripple/destroy the enemy if possible.

Tabletop is just a different beast, and especially in a lore context the bracket build 'mechs make a ton of sense.

If you think about that poster boy of bracket build 'mechs, the Shadow Hawk 2H. The guy piloting could be a merc doing whatever mission he's ordered to. No-one asks him if he's geared for short or long range. Also the guy exists in a world where a major portion of all 'mechs are 20-tonners. That AC/5 and LRM 5 are credible threats against 20-tonners, while they're too light to have significant ranged weaponry to respond with. And there are tons vehicles around which can be crippled with a single LRM 5 hit to motive equipment. In a world like this, being able to do lots of jobs, to some degree, is good enough.

[Koniving]

That with the Dire Wolf? That one made me pretty weary as once you get that close, its do or die. Godspeed. (Suppose the good news is you won't have the ammo issues a Rifleman would with the same build).

[Kin3ticX]

The LBX-2 is just a placeholder weapon because a couple mechs come stock with one. You are not supposed to actually use them.