718 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

12 MG needs to be looked at.

Crotch humping has been a issue for a long time and overlooked. It will not be fixed, it's too hard or not possible for PGI to be bothered with coding in proper collisions or ways to shoot at you feet. That is why I say adding balancing systems half complete is bad balance.

[Krivvan]

Sjorpha, on 17 March 2018 - 04:21 AM, said:

Piranha discussions feels a little like LRM topics to me, in the sense that they really prey on bad enemies, are easy to hard counter and have many situations where they have trouble doing anything useful. They seem to induce the same kind of rage when they kill people.

It's very interesting how being killed in a certain way makes people angry but other ways don't. Laser vomit is much more dominant and powerful in the current metagame, but people really don't seem to get very angry about dying to laser vomit even though everyone dies to it much more often than they die to machine guns or LRMs.

Agreed 100% with your general premise, but just wanted to point out that Laser Vomit too is on its way out of the metagame, but it's just doing it rather slowly. Laser Vomit is no longer often the best archetype, but it is one of the most versatile archetypes which is likely why it has for a long time been pretty popular in QP.

Lights in general also work best as force multiplier and cleanup mechs rather than having much ability to carry an entire team on their own. Like with Assaults, the strength of Lights comes from how well the core of the team is doing.

Also Piranhas won't be available for MRBC this year since they are not out for c-bills yet. But you can gauge the popularity of the Piranha somewhat by how often you see the MG Mist Lynx, which is its closest comparison.

Edited by Krivvan, 17 March 2018 - 04:52 PM.

[Krivvan]

Brain Cancer, on 17 March 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

Of course, we used to have a solution to this.

It was called "you'd knock the light over from the collision if you walked into him, then alpha his face after he stood back up".

That's really more of a romanticized view of what knockdown was like rather than the reality. Lights were still able to play at the feet of assaults as long as they didn't run full speed into them, and Lights themselves could relatively easily knock Assaults down. Back when knockdown was in the game, however, there weren't any Assault mechs that had high mounts and high cockpits and there weren't any Light mechs that were actually small enough to stay under them and be truly invulnerable.

At the moment, only 25 and 20 tonner Lights are able to stand under the shots of the Kodiak-3, which is a mech that has one of the worst problems with not hitting Lights directly beneath it. The Jenner, Spider, Wolfhound, Arctic Cheetah, and etc. all aren't capable of not being hit by its torso mounts while at the feet of it.

What Lights are often able to do, however, is constantly maneuver to stay behind an enemy Assault, but this is often only possible when an Assault has been isolated in some way or is otherwise caught out of position. And even then, the solution in this case is backing up into a wall, as many people have pointed out.

[Krivvan]

Imperius, on 17 March 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

or ways to shoot at you feet.

Gaussfather, on 17 March 2018 - 02:15 PM, said:

Leghumping while blasting 12 MGs? No, that's just an exploit of the game not allowing the cockpit view to go down far enough (or allow transparent cockpit floor like some games did to solve such situations) and giving 1 mech/weapon combo crazy DPS with no heat and massive CRIT ability.

There are ways to shoot at your feet. The only Assaults that can't shoot at their feets are Assaults that very specifically have that as one of their weaknesses. It's not as if a Supernova, Mad Cat MK. 2, Atlas, or Dire Wolf have any problems shooting at their feet. It's the Assaults that are built to be mainly torso mounted with high mounts and low torso pitch that have trouble, and that's the price you pay for having those otherwise excellent mounts.

That said, what could use an adjustment are Clan MGs if only to make IS MGs more relevant. Such as mildly reducing the crit rate of Clan MGs as a tradeoff for being lower in tonnage. But the issue of Lights standing at the feet of Assaults is a complete non-issue and is on par with complaining about mechs above you shooting you while you don't have the torso pitch to aim back up at them.

Edited by Krivvan, 17 March 2018 - 05:19 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Battlemaster56, on 17 March 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

Sooner or later this thread gonna take a lovely trip somewhere special.

That's Sonata funny.

[Brain Cancer]

Krivvan, on 17 March 2018 - 05:04 PM, said:

That's really more of a romanticized view of what knockdown was like rather than the reality. Lights were still able to play at the feet of assaults as long as they didn't run full speed into them, and Lights themselves could relatively easily knock Assaults down. Back when knockdown was in the game, however, there weren't any Assault mechs that had high mounts and high cockpits and there weren't any Light mechs that were actually small enough to stay under them and be truly invulnerable.

Commandos could leg-hug an Atlas and laugh.

[Zergling]

Brain Cancer, on 17 March 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

That's Sonata funny.

Should be a taco, not popcorn.

[TechChris]

Nightbird, on 17 March 2018 - 07:16 AM, said:

Maybe we should petition PGI for a 30 Ballistic point assault mech so they can use the ultra-DPS Machine gun god weapons as well and see how they rock...

HELL ****** YEAH!!!! I'd drive something like a Cyclops with Full Armor, 7 tons Ammo, 30 LMG, 3 ERMLs, and a Huge LFE. Play it like a quicker, deadlier, but somewhat shorter range Dual HGR build. Play it cool til deathball's close together, then step in and start deleting mechs!!!

I want this now, go start that Petition Night!!!

Edited by TechChris, 18 March 2018 - 12:32 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

TechChris, on 18 March 2018 - 12:08 AM, said:

HELL ****** YEAH!!!! I'd drive something like a Cyclops with Full Armor, 7 tons Ammo, 30 LMG, and a Huge LFE. Play it like a quicker, deadlier, but somewhat shorter range Dual HGR build. Play it cool til deathballs close together, then step in and start deleting mechs!!!

I want this now, go start that Petition Night!!!

I keep saying all we need to do is make 2 Clan MG = 1 IS MG and you can get that sweet, sweet MG action without hardpoint inflation for IS robots.

And to think we haven't even gotten AP Gauss/Magshot yet.

[Krivvan]

Brain Cancer, on 17 March 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

Commandos could leg-hug an Atlas and laugh.

They were bigger than they are now, but I suppose they were around. But they were also more prominent for having terrible hit reg, teleporting, and lagging the game when they ran too fast. But I don't think they were ever considered strong.

Edited by Krivvan, 18 March 2018 - 12:45 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

Zergling, on 17 March 2018 - 11:33 PM, said:

Should be a taco, not popcorn.

But it's not Taco Tuesday.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Krivvan, on 17 March 2018 - 03:09 AM, said:

One of the points of the game is that a Light mech can counter an Assault. It's not always a case of heavier == inherently better. That's a good thing.

But it's not just the Assaults that Piranhas do well against. They shred just about anything.

A piranha pilot just has to spend the first 5 minutes of the match not getting shot at, and then swoop in and get easy kill after easy kill once its teammates open up some soft spots.

Sometimes you don't even need weak spots. I 1v1ed an isolated Phoenix Hawk in my Piranha by just shredding its legs. It couldn't do a goddamn thing to me.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Krivvan, on 17 March 2018 - 05:14 PM, said:

That said, what could use an adjustment are Clan MGs if only to make IS MGs more relevant. Such as mildly reducing the crit rate of Clan MGs as a tradeoff for being lower in tonnage.

Sidenote: They already have a lower crit multiplier and higher spread than their IS counterparts

[Imperius]

Kaeb Odellas, on 18 March 2018 - 01:14 AM, said:

But it's not just the Assaults that Piranhas do well against. They shred just about anything.

A piranha pilot just has to spend the first 5 minutes of the match not getting shot at, and then swoop in and get easy kill after easy kill once its teammates open up some soft spots.

Sometimes you don't even need weak spots. I 1v1ed an isolated Phoenix Hawk in my Piranha by just shredding its legs. It couldn't do a goddamn thing to me.

They’re not here to balance. They are defending their crutch.

[Battlemaster56]

Imperius, on 18 March 2018 - 01:37 AM, said:

They’re not here to balance. They are defending their crutch.

Man got me there. Without my crutch I can't pad my stats like I use to when Timberwolves and Stromcrows were god tier plus.

[TWIAFU]

Imperius, on 18 March 2018 - 01:37 AM, said:

They’re not here to balance. They are defending their crutch.

You know what you do until we have a 8MG troll mech to return the fun to clanners?

Run streaks to ruin their fun.

Once we have our own troll MG mech, then we will see salt and complaints. Only then will a change to MG be made.

We have to wait until after the Flea and a run of salt farming.



Already planning for it

[Battlemaster56]

TWIAFU, on 18 March 2018 - 02:30 AM, said:

You know what you do until we have a 8MG troll mech to return the fun to clanners?

Run streaks to ruin their fun.

Once we have our own troll MG mech, then we will see salt and complaints. Only then will a change to MG be made.

We have to wait until after the Flea and a run of salt farming.



Already planning for it

Yep pretty much this all over.

And to be competely honest everyday I'm leaning closer and closer to preorder that little guy just to most lol's since the PIR and Cheeto release.

[Krivvan]

TWIAFU, on 18 March 2018 - 02:30 AM, said:

You know what you do until we have a 8MG troll mech to return the fun to clanners?

Who even limits themselves to just Clan and IS mechs anymore? Who runs a Piranha thinking "oh boy I'm a clanner and I get this mech?" Are Piranhas for some reason only targeting IS mechs?

If you really hate Piranhas and want to "troll" them back, run an 8 MG Mist Lynx. It's the best counter when using the same playstyle.

Edited by Krivvan, 18 March 2018 - 02:50 AM.

[Curccu]

Krivvan, on 18 March 2018 - 02:42 AM, said:

Who even limits themselves to just Clan and IS mechs anymore? Who runs a Piranha thinking "oh boy I'm a clanner and I get this mech?"

LARPers... those weird larpers.

[Imperius]

TWIAFU, on 18 March 2018 - 02:30 AM, said:

You know what you do until we have a 8MG troll mech to return the fun to clanners?

Run streaks to ruin their fun.

Once we have our own troll MG mech, then we will see salt and complaints. Only then will a change to MG be made.

We have to wait until after the Flea and a run of salt farming.



Already planning for it

I ran a few games last night as I said I’ve never had issues with lights. Most are really bad pilots. Some like to believe though if a nerf is being called it’s because it killed you. Hardly been my case though I did get in a heated firefight and quickly reminded myself why I quit. It was my mistake, but an extremely bad balance call at least the amount of ghost heat. Anyway lights never got close to me but I did see plenty of Piranha’s.

You know what I didn’t see?

A Kodak, or any 100 ton mechs for that matter. It was quite funny to see how sad this game has become. I didn’t even recognize any pilots names and only had 4 friends on out of some 100 people on my friends list.

Well I’m sure the nerf will happen when it becomes a problem in Solaris, unless they just ban it.