26 replies to this topic

[Nicodemus Rosse]

Does what it says on the tin. What do you think about a buff to torso pitch angles?

In particular, being unable to look down more than a few degrees is really absurd. I don't expect a full 90 degrees up and 90 down—let's not be silly—but IMO torso pitch angles on most 'Mechs could use a buff. As it is now:

• It makes for some really weird angle problems for 'Mechs trying to set up fire from above or below.
  
• It makes the whole leg-humping lights thing that much worse.
  
• It means your arms can be aimed generally at targets you can't see because they're behind the mini-map in your HUD.
  
• It means most brawling assaults have a lot of blind spots. Like, kind of too many blind spots for what they're supposed to be? It'd be nice to be able to shoot down along a moderately sloped hill, at minimum.

Even if the torso pitch speed isn't buffed, just a buff to the angle for mediums, heavies, and assaults would seem (a) reasonable, and (b) useful for giving a moderate soft nerf to the leg-hugging PIR legion.

Post-engine desync this seems like a reasonable concession, especially if it's just max pitch angles, not pitch speed. Assaults still turn too slowly and have slow pitch speeds, so they'll still be readily outflanked by wily lights.

I don't drive them enough to have an informed opinion, but this also seems like it'd be a no-brainer for the BJ-1, RFL, and JM6 in terms of "chassis that ought to have crazy good pitch angles." Any AA-mech aficionados want to weigh in?

Edited by Nicodemus Rosse, 05 March 2018 - 11:15 PM.

[Xetelian]

I bet they would do it if people petitioned Russ enough on twitter. https://twitter.com/...bullock?lang=en

Though I hear mechs like the FS9 have ridiculously small pitch angles because the model will clip if they go any further, which is just AMAZING design!

Edited by Xetelian, 06 March 2018 - 09:58 AM.

[Khobai]

atlas needs buffed torso pitch

16 degree torso pitch with mostly torso weapons is really dumb

[Sjorpha]

Being able to aim downwards better would be pretty nice for some mechs, but on the other hand I think that it's really good that arm mounted weapons have some specific advantages as well since torso weapons are usually better.

Now you have to think a little about putting something in the arms of assaults to counter lights and shoot down UAVs and that's a good thing IMO.

[Khobai]

Quote

Now you have to think a little about putting something in the arms of assaults to counter lights and shoot down UAVs and that's a good thing IMO.

thats fair for assaults that have the option to run a lot of arm weapons. like no one is saying the direwolf needs better torso pitch because it can run 10 weapons in its arms.

but assaults that cant run lots of arm weapons shouldnt also have crappy torso pitch. the atlas needs better torso pitch. atlas should have 25 degree torso pitch probably.

Edited by Khobai, 06 March 2018 - 12:25 AM.

[adamts01]

Khobai, on 06 March 2018 - 12:22 AM, said:

but assaults that cant run lots of arm weapons shouldnt also have crappy torso pitch. the atlas needs better torso pitch. atlas should have 25 degree torso pitch probably.

It has to be adjusted very carefully. The Atlas needs a buff in about every way imaginable, so that mech is a good candidate. But Hunchbacks, Warhammers, pre-nerf Kodiak, Hellbringers... That pitch angle is the price they have to pay for being able to skimp on arm armor and stacking all those high mounts full of guns.

[Sjorpha]

Khobai, on 06 March 2018 - 12:22 AM, said:

thats fair for assaults that have the option to run a lot of arm weapons. like no one is saying the direwolf needs better torso pitch because it can run 10 weapons in its arms.

but assaults that cant run lots of arm weapons shouldnt also have crappy torso pitch. the atlas needs better torso pitch. atlas should have 25 degree torso pitch probably.

I think it's ok if some mechs have that as a weakness if they are strong in other areas. If the Atlas is buffed to be a good assault brawler against other heavies, meaning armor buffs and increased torso twist speed, it's fine with me if it's bad at looking up and down, also the Atlas does have arm weapons so it's a personal choice to forego or put weak weapons there.

IMO it's a good thing that mechs have bad matchups against specific other mechs, I want more counterplay and more tightly focused roles.

I don't want any mech to be self sufficient, assaults should need to work with their mediums for light protection and so on because that encouraces teamplay.

Edited by Sjorpha, 06 March 2018 - 02:45 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

IMO it's a good thing that mechs have bad matchups against specific other mechs, I want more counterplay and more tightly focused roles.

yeah but in the case of the atlas its just straight up worse than the annihilator

its not even a matter of counterplay. theres just no reason to use it at all.

[Sjorpha]

Khobai, on 06 March 2018 - 06:32 AM, said:

yeah but in the case of the atlas its just straight up worse than the annihilator

its not even a matter of counterplay. theres just no reason to use it at all.

Sure, the Atlas is bad. I'm just saying I'd rather buff it for the role of a classic brawling atlas than buff it's pitch. Anni is really a very different role, midrange dps ballistics.

[roekenny]

Not juts pitch it's speed as well because it's pretty much mandatory to get the twist speed nodes on most assaults to make them barley serviceable to spread damage and track. It's why brawling pretty much died with the engine nerf.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

pitch nodes in the skilltree do too little;

that being said, I'm quite sure it was mentioned the first time the skilltree was put up and PGI, as usual, knew better.

I'm sure in the meantime they have enough data to prove they're right... *sigh* )

[Xetelian]

roekenny, on 06 March 2018 - 07:06 AM, said:

Not juts pitch it's speed as well because it's pretty much mandatory to get the twist speed nodes on most assaults to make them barley serviceable to spread damage and track. It's why brawling pretty much died with the engine nerf.

You take the twist speed nodes? I mean some assaults they offer some benefit but they do NOTHING for the Atlas and the other 100 ton mechs.

[roekenny]

Xetelian, on 06 March 2018 - 08:01 AM, said:

You take the twist speed nodes? I mean some assaults they offer some benefit but they do NOTHING for the Atlas and the other 100 ton mechs.

Maulers benefit from them as had to grind a new one and you can see the difference but as you said on a atlas you barley notice.

[Hobbles v]

Bad pitch became more noticable after the rescale. A ton of mechs got taller.

The firestarter which intentionally had worse pitch than other lights as a balancing mechanism got taller in the rescale.
Catapults on the flip side got much shorter but also have below average pitch for thier height.

Grasshoppers and black knights have average pitch for thier tonnage but they now both struggle tp look down because they got waaay taller on rescale. Same goes for the atlas which also got much larger.

On the other hand rescale shrunk the locust . It can now hide in a small bubble around these tall mechs and not be shot. Pre rescale this required the locust to be ramming the legs of the large mech and have slightly favourable terrain.

[A Man In A Can]

The SDR-5V would certainly be more interesting if it could point its torso weapons more downwards after getting to a high perch with its JJs.

As for AA mechs, their lore role doesn't require better torso pitch. It requires really good arm pitch coupled with average torso pitch to be able to track airborne targets. You can see evidence of this in the Rifleman in MWO today. With its 30deg of torso and 50deg of arm pitch, it can shoot nearly straight up (and it has the cockpit windows to do so), so that mech's fine. It's the Jager and the BJ that don't have that property, when they really should considering what they were historically used for.

Either way, I applaud the effort. These properties really should matter more, as they are a kind of quirk, and PGI has been sorely underutilizing them since the game became open to the public.

[Nightbird]

Create a poll and I'll vote yes

[Lykaon]

Nicodemus Rosse, on 05 March 2018 - 11:13 PM, said:

Does what it says on the tin. What do you think about a buff to torso pitch angles?

In particular, being unable to look down more than a few degrees is really absurd. I don't expect a full 90 degrees up and 90 down—let's not be silly—but IMO torso pitch angles on most 'Mechs could use a buff. As it is now:

• It makes for some really weird angle problems for 'Mechs trying to set up fire from above or below.
  
• It makes the whole leg-humping lights thing that much worse.
  
• It means your arms can be aimed generally at targets you can't see because they're behind the mini-map in your HUD.
  
• It means most brawling assaults have a lot of blind spots. Like, kind of too many blind spots for what they're supposed to be? It'd be nice to be able to shoot down along a moderately sloped hill, at minimum.

Even if the torso pitch speed isn't buffed, just a buff to the angle for mediums, heavies, and assaults would seem (a) reasonable, and ( useful for giving a moderate soft nerf to the leg-hugging PIR legion.


Post-engine desync this seems like a reasonable concession, especially if it's just max pitch angles, not pitch speed. Assaults still turn too slowly and have slow pitch speeds, so they'll still be readily outflanked by wily lights.

I don't drive them enough to have an informed opinion, but this also seems like it'd be a no-brainer for the BJ-1, RFL, and JM6 in terms of "chassis that ought to have crazy good pitch angles." Any AA-mech aficionados want to weigh in?

I have been saying this for years. And I was recently reminded when I was piloting my Night Gyr and couldn't hit a Timberwolf that was literally within kicking distance but my elevation made it impossible to hit with torso weapons because apparently Night Gyrs have like a 20 degree torso pitch
Seriously it wasn't as if the Timber was even below the Gyr's mid thigh in elevation but...that was to close and to low. I bet you could take a tall light mech and stand 10m away and be safe from torso mounted weapons on a Gyr.

[The GaussFather]

I'M ALL FOR IT! No need to go into more detail... see my "obvious troll thread" that talks about the leg humping problem.

Edited by The GaussFather, 06 March 2018 - 11:32 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

I actually agree with this.

I get that lights are hard to pilot, but they shouldn't be face-tanking assaults and heavies as they hug them literally in the front and get away with it.

A piranha or mist-lynx literally eating away my front-armor just i couldn't hit it because i couldn't look down enough from an Atlas or anni shouldn't happen. If it were from the rear understandable, but on the front where I could bear my weapons, and these little buggers are just eating me away like nothing, that's just wrong.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 08 March 2018 - 04:23 AM.

[adamts01]

Hobbles v, on 06 March 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

Bad pitch became more noticable after the rescale. A ton of mechs got taller. .

On the other hand rescale shrunk the locust . It can now hide in a small bubble around these tall mechs and not be shot. Pre rescale this required the locust to be ramming the legs of the large mech and have slightly favourable terrain.

The locust wasn't touched during the rescale. That rescale was the last straw for me.