135 replies to this topic

[Aylward]

Yeah... as truly entertaining as Dane's videos are, and as much as i agree with him on a variety of points, the key disconnects here seem to be him missing that PGI's devs are pretty much outright dismissing him while being forced to respond to him publicly at the same time, due to the twitter storm flood from the first vid... He thinks they're listening to him...but they're just using his name as the one they use to dismiss any ideas that weren't already in their pipeline/grand plan just like always. Hence his confusion when the dismissals were vague and disjointed from his narrative.... They literally weren't really listening to Dane, they were just reacting to all the people shoving Dane's video in their faces on twitter. Sorry Dane... i really did like the last several vids a lot. I just don't believe you're getting any more traction than anyone else that's not in PGI's executive planning committee, other than having your name brought up on NGNG by Paul.. (which like it or not, makes you that guy you said you didnt wanna be).

The other disconnect is the idea that FP would be shut down to "be worked on"...See, that was never said.. just that it would be shut down/turned off, with the sole inference given by inebriated Russ being to funnel people to Solaris. Hopeful players inserted that idea of working on FP while it was down into the monologue, obviously forgetting the glacial speed with which FP code is brought forth.,..(you know, cuz programming is hard but making new mechs isn't..). So Dane's premise for being FOR shutting down FP is flawed. There was zero mention of resources being allocated to work on FP if it was turned off to make way for Solaris.. And if it does get turned off, the real trick will likely be getting them to turn it back on again.

I have long said that Community Warfare/Faction Play, whatever you want to call it today.. took two to the head from Russ back during NGNG podcast 145, and is already long dead...most still playing it just don't know it or refuse to accept it... And nothing since has changed that opinion for me yet. Certainly not how every promise/forecast of new FP features has failed to materialize since... How those FP events never came to be as advertised... How loyalists continue to get crapped on in new and exciting ways by the devs on a regular basis (the only new feature we can seemingly expect regularly)... the list goes on and on. Of complaints of inaction/inflexibility/incompetence that is...not new features..And all we do is slosh around in the bottom of the bucket now, playing community light bright and musical faction chairs...

IMHO, Those that can't realize that PGI's leadership really couldn't care less about FP at this point, and is doing all it can to string along the FP population just so QP and Solaris numbers don't tank terribly are deluding themselves at this point. Not unlike the ones that think PGI will port MWO multiplayer to the new engine once MW5 launches.. they have NEVER said they would do this, and in fact have denied any plans to do so repeatedly when asked directly. That was also put forth by hopeful players... not the devs.

So keep dreaming on that island on the brown sea... maybe one day your ship will come in... or maybe a long tom will land on it. Anybody's guess which one happens first. Although experience says the ship will likely miss the island completely and get sunk by the long tom just before it goes out of sight over the horizon. After a hotfix, the longtom hits the island squarely.

[Diablobo]

Buffing mobility is going to DECREASE TTK, not increase it.

The players who can use their piloting skill to actually benefit from it will be able to be far more offensive than the same players can be defensive. The less skilled will be even further victimized by being outmaneuvered and overmatched. It amplifies skill disparity.

Edited by Diablobo, 08 March 2018 - 11:21 AM.

[Hal Greaves]

Diablobo, on 08 March 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

Buffing mobility is going to DECREASE TTK, not increas it.

increasing TTK only widens the skill gap even further than it is now, really

[Daurock]

Diablobo, on 08 March 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

Buffing mobility is going to DECREASE TTK, not increase it.

The players who can use their piloting skill to actually benefit from it will be able to be far more offensive than the same players can be defensive. The less skilled will be even further victimized by being outmaneuvered and overmatched. It amplifies skill disparity.

Probably true. Add in more agile (as in, fast enough not to be limiting) assaults, and you risk shoving out the slower heavies and mediums. IMO, The bigger mechs should actually feel slow, which they really didn't before the engine de-sync if you could stick in enough engine. (Side note - some mechs, such as the ponderous night gyr, probably could do with an agility boost, to at least average levels of agility for the tonnage.)

I think a better solution can be found in the Volumetric scaling thread that's been floating around - That being, assaults could use a "shrinking." It increases TTK of assaults and heavies by making them harder to hit accurately at range, while still keeping them cumbersome when facing CQ threats (Read - Lights)

[Alistair Winter]

It took me years to realize that Mech the Dane is actually the last of the skáldic poets. He may not rhyme like a skald, but he certainly has the pathos and flair. Well done.

Disappointed to see that MWO2 was just a metaphor though.

[Stinger554]

Aylward, on 08 March 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

The other disconnect is the idea that FP would be shut down to "be worked on"...See, that was never said..

Yeah Dane never said that is what is happening...he said that's what he thinks should happen to FP/CW. Go back and listen instead of just hearing.

[Stinger554]

Bud Crue, on 08 March 2018 - 07:36 AM, said:

If PGI kills CW -even momentarily- it sends a signal to us that CW and its promise is well and truly dead.

See that doesn't make sense to me if you are being a reasonable person(Hint Hint Wink Wink). If PGI said they had to take it down in order to revamp the system you would automatically assume FP/CW is never going to return? Yeah no.

Personally if they feel that they need to disable FP/CW in order to appropriately address it's problems I'd be fine with it. If the players that primarily play FP/CW have an extreme allergen to the other modes, then come back after the renovations to FP/CW are complete/released.

[Tarogato]

Stinger554, on 08 March 2018 - 12:51 PM, said:

Personally if they feel that they need to disable FP/CW in order to appropriately address it's problems I'd be fine with it. If the players that primarily play FP/CW have an extreme allergen to the other modes, then come back after the renovations to FP/CW are complete/released.

Yeah, I doubt anybody thinks that taking down CW is actually necessary in order to update it.

What I wouldn't mind seeing, is for later this year PGI takes down CW for one or two months to build up hype for a relaunch. "It's been gone for two months and now it's back, completely revamped!" would get a lot of people excited to hop back in like it's brand new. I think it would jumpstart the CW population and give it the best chance it has at succeeding. But that's just me, I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[sycocys]

Mystere, on 08 March 2018 - 06:56 AM, said:

It's a choice between disappointing a smaller number of people and creating a full-scale riot.

Yes but shutting down the mode a small number of people play, of which most of them only play that mode, is just going to drive that bunch away from the game and in all likelihood the majority of them won't bother returning even IF they actually re-built the mode.

It also doesn't make any sense to shut down the mode a small number of people play for the purpose of even trying to redirect them to a mode that most of them don't want in the first place.

First of all its a small number of people, so even if they did go to Solaris it would be an ineffectual addition - secondly, and mentioned already, they don't want to play Solaris in the first place. If there was a third thing to add - "forcing" them into a mode they don't want to play is most likely to result in many of that portion of players going out of their way to intentionally troll the mode and make it uninteresting for the people that want to play it.

[The6thMessenger]

Mcgral18, on 07 March 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

Or just make them easier to use than UACs, with massive velocity increases
They can't stand to be identical to isACs, because they're better in every other way.

Yeah but wouldn't it be better to have certain completely different quality that sets apart a weapon so that it will have different use? That which provides an option that people can go after, not because it's just plain better at something.

I'm okay with single-slug, so long as it does 1/2/4/8 spread damage (divided among location), and 1/3/6/12 PPFLD. It won't be as effective as IS version that way.

[Bud Crue]

Stinger554, on 08 March 2018 - 12:51 PM, said:

See that doesn't make sense to me if you are being a reasonable person(Hint Hint Wink Wink). If PGI said they had to take it down in order to revamp the system you would automatically assume FP/CW is never going to return? Yeah no.

Personally if they feel that they need to disable FP/CW in order to appropriately address it's problems I'd be fine with it. If the players that primarily play FP/CW have an extreme allergen to the other modes, then come back after the renovations to FP/CW are complete/released.

From this company? After Russ's commentary in the last podcast about CW not being a priority? Given a past where they admitted to not bothering with ANY oversight or dedicated personnel on the mode for over 6 months? Given the past development promises that have never been met in 4 years?

Yeah, if these people said they were taking CW down in order to "revamp the system" it would be -based on the existing history- totally reasonable to assume that such a revamp would be to remove the mode entirely and say "well we didn't have overwhelming community support to bring it back, so we aren't."

Edit and Rant:
From the original "promises" of what CW would be, to things like road map after road map touting the return of inverse kinematics, to assertions of a skills tree that would improve build diversity and allow the complete removal of all quirks. This company has a well documented history of saying one thing and doing something TOTALLY contradictory with the half-assed excuse of "well that was out position/intent at the time". Given that history if they say CW is being removed to "appropriately address its problems" you may as well kiss the mode goodbye because the history shows that its elimination is FAR more reasonable than them actually addressing its problems. Now excuse me I have to go play a match in my one bucket "solution" because hey...that was what they did the last time they told us that they would listen to player input (see first round table) and actually address the problems of the mode. I aint holding my breath if they make a similar claim this time, because based on that well documented history I reasonably conclude that a zero bucket solution is next.

Edited by Bud Crue, 08 March 2018 - 04:23 PM.

[Mcgral18]

The6thMessenger, on 08 March 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

Yeah but wouldn't it be better to have certain completely different quality that sets apart a weapon so that it will have different use? That which provides an option that people can go after, not because it's just plain better at something.

I'm okay with single-slug, so long as it does 1/2/4/8 spread damage (divided among location), and 1/3/6/12 PPFLD. It won't be as effective as IS version that way.

A 1600 M/s cAC20 would have a very different feel to a 650M/s one

[The6thMessenger]

Mcgral18, on 08 March 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

A 1600 M/s cAC20 would have a very different feel to a 650M/s one

Sure, so is 1 shell CAC20 versus 4 shell CAC20, from a staredown dakka it turns into a poke. It's something that would put a different playstyle than just doing-something-better.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

If we believed FW wasn’t on the backburner for PGI( at best) and they told us a short shutdown was actually necessary to revamp many of us would grin and bear it...assuming there was some sort of vision or promises they were making. We’ve been burned often before, but I think many players want to find any reason to believe PGI really does care about state of the mode. However, they have explicitly told us it is not going to get resources devoted to improving it in the near term. No vision, no promises of what a shutdown would enable...it’s just to slide population around. PGI has Solaris to launch and then inevitably support and debug....no help is just over the horizon at this moment. So...with all that in mind (as much as I appreciate many of Danes other thoughts) it’s kinda “jumping the shark” to suggest this for no reason

[naterist]

Nightbird, on 08 March 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

FP isn't a car where you have to park it to work on it.

Other than that, PGI just needs to play the game enough to get a feel for it. Mid range laser vomit is thriving not because those weapons are OP, but because they are jack-of-all-maps. Let people choose mechs after the map is revealed, and you'll see a lot more brawl on close range maps, dakka on hot maps, and ERLL/LRM on ranged maps.

thats what you get to do in fw, and guess what? lasers or gauss-vomit are still the best option every time.

[Stinger554]

Tarogato, on 08 March 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

Yeah, I doubt anybody thinks that taking down CW is actually necessary in order to update it.

What I wouldn't mind seeing, is for later this year PGI takes down CW for one or two months to build up hype for a relaunch. "It's been gone for two months and now it's back, completely revamped!" would get a lot of people excited to hop back in like it's brand new. I think it would jumpstart the CW population and give it the best chance it has at succeeding. But that's just me, I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In terms of software programming they shouldn't need to, but idk.

As long as they actually improve the mode I can honestly say IDGAF. I do agree with you though.

[Nightbird]

naterist, on 08 March 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

thats what you get to do in fw, and guess what? lasers or gauss-vomit are still the best option every time.

Not really? I play FP a lot, and laser vomit definitely puts you at a disadvantage on hot maps, long range maps, and close range maps. Other builds will outperform them.

[PocketYoda]

sycocys, on 08 March 2018 - 06:54 AM, said:

Shutting down QP would definitely be the way to go if putting people in Solaris was their actual goal.

They want skilled people in Solaris, Quickplay is not that.. Shutting down Quickplay would end MWO over night.

Tarogato, on 08 March 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

Yeah, I doubt anybody thinks that taking down CW is actually necessary in order to update it.

What I wouldn't mind seeing, is for later this year PGI takes down CW for one or two months to build up hype for a relaunch. "It's been gone for two months and now it's back, completely revamped!" would get a lot of people excited to hop back in like it's brand new. I think it would jumpstart the CW population and give it the best chance it has at succeeding. But that's just me, I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It has zero to do with updating it it has everything to do with funneling customers into Solaris.

Edited by Samial, 08 March 2018 - 07:45 PM.

[Fake News]

talking like fp is on one server and needs to be shut off to get worked on. this is what rest servers are for. shutting down team games for 1v1 mode promotion sounds like sooo much fun. /s

[sycocys]

Samial, on 08 March 2018 - 07:43 PM, said:

They want skilled people in Solaris, Quickplay is not that.. Shutting down Quickplay would end MWO over night.

It has zero to do with updating it it has everything to do with funneling customers into Solaris.

If the "skilled" people wanted to play Solaris, they'd do it regardless of whether FP was shut down or not.

Shutting off the mode where a fair amount up to the majority of the players that use it log on to only play that mode... not going to get them to play Solaris. Well unless they intentionally drop in to troll and ruin the mode because they one they wanted to play got shut down, that's something I can see actually happening.