67 replies to this topic

[Abisha]

just a small example,
Ebon Jaguar Vs a Timber
not only have the timber same speed but also jump jets, better heat dispersion, More weaponry and better hit boxes.

this unbalance makes me question Pgi is their politics in play here? we all know timber gold was sold few years back do the Jaguar be the underdog of the timber?.

a other fine example,
Viper Vs Cicada it's clear the viper is superior in all aspects no need to put any up because it's clear as day.

what i suggest,
is that the mechs that are really below their counter part really get some buffs, ether in speed, armor, or heat dispersion

for example Cicada more Armour like 20% and bit quicker and Jaguar at least faster engine and more heat sinks

[Zergling]

You're just realising this now? MWO has been like that forever, PGI plainly don't know how to balance.

[Abisha]

Zergling, on 18 March 2018 - 03:11 AM, said:

You're just realising this now? MWO has been like that forever, PGI plainly don't know how to balance.

no but it's start to bug me more and more about the unfairness

[Antares102]

I would say balance has improved and is OK.
If you disagree then tell me what you think about the time in terms of balance when mechs were running around with uber-quirks, or clan mechs would suffer no penalty when loosing a side torso.

Balance is not perfect and never will be.
What we need is viability of mechs/equipment even if it only fills a niche.

However, I agree that clan mechs are still slightly better than IS mechs in general but it is nowhere near as insulting as it was some years ago.

Edited by Antares102, 18 March 2018 - 03:18 AM.

[Krivvan]

The Ebon Jaguar is generally considered a better mech than the Timber Wolf due to its agility compared to the Timber along with its higher mounts.

The Viper is better than the Cicada in most cases, that is true.

But yes, you're forgetting attributes like Accel/Deccel, Torso twist rate,Turn rate, mount locations, and etc. along with all the quirks when deciding which mech is better than which. On paper a Firestarter might look better than a Jenner initially, but anyone who plays Lights will tell you that the Jenner currently is a far superior mech compared to the Firestarter mainly due to the Firestarter's lack of agility.

But frankly, with 379 variants in the game, no developer could possibly make them all balanced.

As for Clan vs. IS mechs, the very best Clan and IS mechs are actually quite balanced. IS just has a lot more mechs, and therefore a lot more garbage mechs compared to Clan.

Edited by Krivvan, 18 March 2018 - 03:21 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

I wanna touch the Cauldron Born is not the underdog of the Timberwolf, it the opposite since mobility is the main thing holding it back, and using the most meta omnipods hurt your performance unlike the CB.

While I agree some buffs is need(but not all), I also have to state that we need to be logical and not another BJ 1X fiasco where you turn a 45 tonner to a heavy just by the crazy quirks.

I DO NOT WANT TO RELIVE TDR5SS mpl nightmare.

Edited by Battlemaster56, 18 March 2018 - 03:23 AM.

[Abisha]

it can do better or give the mechs that are less good to their counter part a roll to the game or something unique.
also they really need to look for a other business model then if they only can make money by cycle more and more mechs into oblivion.

[Krivvan]

Abisha, on 18 March 2018 - 03:23 AM, said:

it can do better or give the mechs that are less good to their counter part a role to the game or something unique.

That's the idea. But you'd be hard pressed to do that for 379 mechs not including omnimechs.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

ROFL a Viper is just fast food for a cicada.!

[Kiiyor]

Well, the Cauldron and the Timby probably aren't the best comparison, since many consider ol' squat-n-wide to be the better mech than the Clan poster child.

There's lots of crap mechs. Use the Awesome, for example, vs... well, anything really.

Balance wise, though, overall, I think the game's in a better state than it's been in quite some time, but only where the best Clan and 'Sphere mechs in each bracket are concerned. Rubbish mechs are still rubbish, and the toning down of some of their uber quirks didn't help them at all.

[Krivvan]

Kiiyor, on 18 March 2018 - 03:30 AM, said:

There's lots of crap mechs. Use the Awesome, for example, vs... well, anything really.

Outdated a bit. The Awesome in the last quirk cycle was actually the strongest mech in the 80-85 ton range and had a larger than usual amount of HP, and now still has an impressive amount of firepower. The thing is all of its weaknesses make it bad in 12v12, but make it quite decent in 1v1.

Edited by Krivvan, 18 March 2018 - 03:39 AM.

[Seranov]

The fact that you think the TBR is better than the EBJ speaks volumes, OP. You don't even realize where you're wrong.

[Abisha]

Seranov, on 18 March 2018 - 05:14 AM, said:

The fact that you think the TBR is better than the EBJ speaks volumes, OP. You don't even realize where you're wrong.

yea yea right... or say's more about you guys in general.
say's the guy with a average kill dead rate of below 1.0....

Edited by Abisha, 18 March 2018 - 05:34 AM.

[razenWing]

A lot of people said their subjective opinion of why EBJ is better (which, is super subjective due to a CRAP load of reasons like Geometry and how the game doesn't reward Super High Mount with some sort of sight assist targeting system), so I will just point out the factual side of things.

1: EBJ by nature of needing a smaller engine to reach 81 kph, has a crap load more free tons (tonnage you can use) than the Timby. EBJ is pretty much the pinnacle of Clan efficiency. It's the best balance of speed, mobility, free ton, and by extension, heat efficiency. (Since, all those free tons allow the EBJ to put a crap load MORE heatsinks, and with Clan FF and Endo, it's got a boat load of pod space too)

2: Ever since the Drop Tonnage is lowered on the Clan side a year ago, Timby essentially disappeared. Most meta FP units run 3 EBJ + 1 medium and basically do glass cannon push. This could be done with Timby, but either a downgrade in either the medium or ditch 1 heavy, which would be more of a handicap in wave by wave weight war.

-----------

On point of Mech imbalance, I actually welcome the idea of mech imbalance. It's like Overwatch, the bajillion characters are supposed to be so different with infinite combo, that as long as 1 char is not OP over all others, it's a healthy gameplay with diversity. (I.E. You can't play 8v8 all Widowmakers)

So making all mechs the same makes no sense. I am on the advocates for MORE diversity and differences between mechs. Cause, who wants to play the same crap over and over again with different skin on it? If I was in charge, I would quirk all the mechs all different way and make them so unique that there is a purpose and specialization about them. But alas, PGI seems to go more toward your direction of making everything the same (example... lights.)

And honestly, part of the problem stems from this exact notion...

"PGI, WAH, Mech X is the same as Mech Y in tonnage, but X seems to be better in ___A___ and ___B___, that's not fair!"
"Ok, Tiny Tim, we have nerfed Mech X, so now it's just as bad as Mech Y. Enjoy!"

Edited by razenWing, 18 March 2018 - 05:33 AM.

[Cato Phoenix]

Also, the EBJ and the TBR have a 10 ton difference in weight.

I like both mechs fine for different purposes, but the competitive meta is actually in favor of the EBJ, which many consider to be superior. Many players consider the TBR over-engined in comparison to the EBJ or the Gyr.

[El Bandito]

Abisha, on 18 March 2018 - 02:56 AM, said:

just a small example,
Ebon Jaguar Vs a Timber
not only have the timber same speed but also jump jets, better heat dispersion, More weaponry and better hit boxes.

this unbalance makes me question Pgi is their politics in play here? we all know timber gold was sold few years back do the Jaguar be the underdog of the timber?.

a other fine example,
Viper Vs Cicada it's clear the viper is superior in all aspects no need to put any up because it's clear as day.

what i suggest,
is that the mechs that are really below their counter part really get some buffs, ether in speed, armor, or heat dispersion

for example Cicada more Armour like 20% and bit quicker and Jaguar at least faster engine and more heat sinks

WTF mate? EBJ is one of the most popular FP Clan mech, while Timberwolf is not, so Timbie is not strictly better. And why are you comparing mechs with 10 tons of difference anyway? As for Viper vs. Cicada, I'll duel your Viper with my Cicada 1v1 if you want.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 March 2018 - 05:41 AM.

[Seranov]

Abisha, on 18 March 2018 - 05:31 AM, said:

yea yea right... or say's more about you guys in general.

That people who actually have played both of those mechs know more about what you are complaining about than you do? That is correct.

There are some mechs in this game that are not good, that is also true. But the EBJ is sure as hell not one of them, especially not compared to the venerable TBR.

razenWing, on 18 March 2018 - 05:31 AM, said:

A lot of people said their subjective opinion of why EBJ is better (which, is super subjective due to a CRAP load of reasons like Geometry and how the game doesn't reward Super High Mount with some sort of sight assist targeting system), so I will just point out the factual side of things.

1: EBJ by nature of needing a smaller engine to reach 81 kph, has a crap load more free tons (tonnage you can use) than the Timby. EBJ is pretty much the pinnacle of Clan efficiency. It's the best balance of speed, mobility, free ton, and by extension, heat efficiency. (Since, all those free tons allow the EBJ to put a crap load MORE heatsinks, and with Clan FF and Endo, it's got a boat load of pod space too)

The EBJ and TBR have almost exactly the same tonnage for weapons and equipment. Furthermore, geometry plays a HUGE part in how a mech will perform, and the EBJ is slightly better than the TBR in that department. The EBJ's bunny ears certainly do make the torsos much easier to focus, but not much worse than any missile TBR. The much better mobility is the #1 reason why the EBJ is a better mech than the TBR.

[razenWing]

Seranov, on 18 March 2018 - 05:40 AM, said:

That people who actually have played both of those mechs know more about what you are complaining about than you do? That is correct.

There are some mechs in this game that are not good, that is also true. But the EBJ is sure as hell not one of them, especially not compared to the venerable TBR.



The EBJ and TBR have almost exactly the same tonnage for weapons and equipment. Furthermore, geometry plays a HUGE part in how a mech will perform, and the EBJ is slightly better than the TBR in that department. The EBJ's bunny ears certainly do make the torsos much easier to focus, but not much worse than any missile TBR. The much better mobility is the #1 reason why the EBJ is a better mech than the TBR.

You are right in that they are "almost" similar, but 28.5 is still > 27.5. 1 ton in many case is the different of 1 extra heatsink, 1 TC, or whatever you want. However, I like to point out that most people don't play TBR without at least 1 S-pod. So that's significant more pod space and free tonnage restrictions.

Edited by razenWing, 18 March 2018 - 05:46 AM.

[El Bandito]

Abisha, on 18 March 2018 - 05:31 AM, said:

yea yea right... or say's more about you guys in general.
say's the guy with a average kill dead rate of below 1.0....

Your WLR is just as bad, from what I see. I do not think you have the competency to tell off over half the people here. You weren't even active until recently.

https://leaderboard....search?u=abisha

Edited by El Bandito, 18 March 2018 - 05:48 AM.

[Yondu Udonta]

OP please research on the two mechs before you go along stating which is inferior to the other.

And seriously calling another guy worse than you? Check your percentile before you go around trying to insult others. ******* scrub really.