45 replies to this topic

[KillBox]

Gentlemen - and ladies, of course...

I've read through the Developer Interview 1 with Iglesias, and was sort of piqued with something he said.
He said he'd be working hard to make "generic-looking" mechs better to look at... the most generic thing I've ever seen in Battletech is hands down the Enforcer... I mean really. It's a mech. Just a mech.

Does anyone think we'll be seeing these bland old designs (and by bland, I don't intend to offend any fans) being given a re-hash? It almost makes sense, given the period and the factions involved.

And what would you, as fellow Mechwarriors, say constituted a "generic-looking mech?"

I can think of a few things - biped "man-walkers", one or two articulated "hands", clearly defined head, seemingly slender with the very basics in weapons systems. The Enforcer, Commando and Firestarter jump to mind almost immediately.

I thought it would be an interesting topic, not quite as loaded as "TT vs MW" or "Arcade vs Sim" - just to relax the atmosphere a bit.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Hayden]

A lot of the 'mechs from the 3055 TRO come off as pretty generic. The lighter ones especially. Not that I expect this to be an issue. Whitworth and quickdraw are a bit "generic" too, but their case isn't as bad as the 3055-ers.

[KillBox]

But would you say that it's a solid bet we'll be seeing newer iterations of the Whitworth/Quickdraw/Enforcer-type mechs? I'm betting anyone 1 whole internet that, somewhere along the line, we'll see the Commando and Enforcer,

Edited by KillBox, 21 December 2011 - 11:58 PM.

[godmonkey]

well most of the designs will -eventually- make it to the game. JUST DONT HAVE TOO HIGH HOPES THAT YOUR FAUV DESIGN WILL MAKE IT TO THE LAUNCH. SORRY BOUT THE CAPS BUT TE KEYBOARD BROKE. REALLY. CAN'T GET THEM OFF AND THE ONSCREEN KEYBOARD DOESN'T HELP EITHER...

[KillBox]

godmonkey, on 22 December 2011 - 01:48 AM, said:

well most of the designs will -eventually- make it to the game. JUST DONT HAVE TOO HIGH HOPES THAT YOUR FAUV DESIGN WILL MAKE IT TO THE LAUNCH. SORRY BOUT THE CAPS BUT TE KEYBOARD BROKE. REALLY. CAN'T GET THEM OFF AND THE ONSCREEN KEYBOARD DOESN'T HELP EITHER...

Methinks your "Shift" is broken.

On your reply - my fave is the Marauder - which is another subject altogether (Unseen, Reseen, JustSeenIt, Nearlyseen... whatever). The topic is more about what was said in terms of what Mr Iglesias said about revamping the old "Generics". Suppose the point of it being that we can hazard a far safer guess as to which direction the Mech selection (the initial one) will go.

[ZnSeventeen]

I think the commando, firestarter, enforcer, hermes and quite a few others are pretty "generic" and will be revamped.

One thing I am predicting will be revamped about all of them, their necks. (Note all of the "generic" mechs mentioned so far have very detached heads, and are almost perfectly humanoid.)

[Adridos]

godmonkey, on 22 December 2011 - 01:48 AM, said:

well most of the designs will -eventually- make it to the game. JUST DONT HAVE TOO HIGH HOPES THAT YOUR FAUV DESIGN WILL MAKE IT TO THE LAUNCH. SORRY BOUT THE CAPS BUT TE KEYBOARD BROKE. REALLY. CAN'T GET THEM OFF AND THE ONSCREEN KEYBOARD DOESN'T HELP EITHER...

How do you make dots then? Ctrl-C + Ctrl-V, right?

Edited by Adridos, 22 December 2011 - 03:26 AM.

[KillBox]

ZnSeventeen, on 22 December 2011 - 02:56 AM, said:

I think the commando, firestarter, enforcer, hermes and quite a few others are pretty "generic" and will be revamped.

One thing I am predicting will be revamped about all of them, their necks. (Note all of the "generic" mechs mentioned so far have very detached heads, and are almost perfectly humanoid.)

You reckon they'll do the "recessed" neck (like the Atlas re-do) on those? It looks pretty sweet - a tad more "pragmatic" as well.

[Dihm]

Call me crazy, but things like the Commando and Firestarter always looked pretty unique to me.

I think all the Ost[insert ending here]s need to be drastically redone. I guess it makes sense that they ALL look similar and if one is horribly ugly the rest would be, being that they are all Osts, but come ON. Also, they look NOTHING like Zentradi battlepods (which look awesome), I never got that connection.

I'll agree with Haydon on 3055, I think that's one of my least favorite TROs.

Edited by Dihm, 22 December 2011 - 05:12 AM.

[ZnSeventeen]

KillBox, on 22 December 2011 - 04:54 AM, said:

You reckon they'll do the "recessed" neck (like the Atlas re-do) on those? It looks pretty sweet - a tad more "pragmatic" as well.

I think so. There is no logical reason to have real necks, and it makes the head a really big target, not to mention easy to knock off. Also it would make it harder to armor the cockpit and still fit a mechwarrior. Artistically, the neck makes them more familiar as they look more humanoid, but I think making them look less humanoid adds to the fear factor. They will look more like war machines, and less like skinny metal men with guns. (This is not a knock to skinny men, as I am one. It is just that skinny men tend to be less threatening in physical confrontations.)

[KillBox]

ZnSeventeen, on 22 December 2011 - 05:23 AM, said:

I think so. There is no logical reason to have real necks, and it makes the head a really big target, not to mention easy to knock off. Also it would make it harder to armor the cockpit and still fit a mechwarrior. Artistically, the neck makes them more familiar as they look more humanoid, but I think making them look less humanoid adds to the fear factor. They will look more like war machines, and less like skinny metal men with guns. (This is not a knock to skinny men, as I am one. It is just that skinny men tend to be less threatening in physical confrontations.)

Until said skinny man uses Krav Maga or something, but of course, I see what you mean. Just trying to imagine something like a Commando with recessed head, wider shoulders (while still trying to pull off "25 tons" and look the part)

Dihm, on 22 December 2011 - 05:11 AM, said:

Call me crazy, but things like the Commando and Firestarter always looked pretty unique to me.

I think all the Ost[insert ending here]s need to be drastically redone. I guess it makes sense that they ALL look similar and if one is horribly ugly the rest would be, being that they are all Osts, but come ON. Also, they look NOTHING like Zentradi battlepods (which look awesome), I never got that connection.

I'll agree with Haydon on 3055, I think that's one of my least favorite TROs.

Agree on the Ost-things - but growing up with very little in the way of BT literature, I actually once thought the Commando, Enforcer and Atlas where a "family" of mechs - or rather, Light, Medium and Uber-Heavy of the same basic idea. Perhaps younger eyes betrayed me?

Or was it artistic freedom? I've seen iterations where a Commando literally looked like a 25-ton Atlas with a pot-helmet on.

Basically, unlike the other 3000000 other threads discussing BattleMechs (want this one, and that one), what I'm wondering is, what would we, the Mechwarriors, like to see in how they're re-done?

[Dihm]

I'm all for a bit of "dehumanizing" the humanoid ones. Take them a bit further away from walking metal men and more into the mech territory.

Some of the pictures show, especially with the light mechs, the head twisting. That really seems like unnecessary complexity added to the mech, making it way more delicate.

[flessar]

Its in line with the *windows* I think to have the neck. Windows by them selves are structural weakpoints that add vulnerabilites that wouldnt otherwise exist. I understand that BTech *windows* are just see through armor, but they add a giant "SHOOT HERE!!!!!ONEone111ONE!!!" target on the mechwarrior, not that its hard to guess where the cockpit would be otherwise.

Adding the neck truly isnt a bad thing as if you have the window's its a natural extention of the visability concept that they went with when they made the game originally. The pilot's eyes were more reliable then camera's external sensors idea naturally extended to a need to do more then simply torso twist 45* for extra vision, so a slight neck twist would be added as well. It does add complexity to the issue of constructing/armoring/arming the model but it also carries that design philosophy to its natural conclusion. Extra vision angles for the natural eyes of the pilot.

I wouldnt miss the neck concepts much if they left, but if they did then the *Window's* should probably follow shortly thereafter, since the former is linked to the later's purpose for existing.

[Dihm]

Viewports don't add more moving, mechanical parts that can break down/jam/fail/whatever though.

Plus, I wouldn't want to have nothing but cameras/viewscreens and get hit by a PPC. You'd be blinded completely until things (hopefully) fixed themselves. There's also the psychology of it all. Even the Space Shuttle had viewports, they're massive weak points. But psychologically, humans want real "windows".

[flessar]

Well even though the concept proved a bust via the urbanmech example of no arms, they add uneccisary complexity as well since most of the weapon systems could hypotheticly be contained within the chasis or a solid pod extention from it rather then the spindly complex joint and easy to lock up arms we usually get on anything not an atlas. Or two legs rather then 4, since with the 4 you dont fall prone right away and could still move and be viable within the tactical field of battle for at least some manouvering even if your ability to be a strategic asset is already gone. Not to mention the ability to decide your own height by adjusting the leg spread to allow you to*hug* the deck and be hidden behind buildings a normal 2leger would be exposed behind without crouching, ie: imobile sitting duck.

But I love my 2 leger's and dont want them to be modified for anything else, they are alot more relateable and 4 leg designs are a PITA to fix if they get broke due to their rarity in canon. I like to think of them as mobile turrets, and use them as such to defend stuff. While my 2 legers do all of the other roles.

[Dihm]

I think we're falling down a slippery slope that I helped ice up, my brain is now crying out that logic and Battletech need to stop being put together.

I guess with arms... you need SOME way to help you stand back up if you fall, so they are a natural mechanism to aid in that since it is a good human analog. Plus, there's all the uses of having a manipulator. Smash and grab raids being a big one, as well as moving rubble/junk, picking up tree limbs to enable bash mode...

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

I like the way Alex did the hand for the Dragon - it's still a usable grabber but looks more like an industrial claw than a big metal glove. That is what I would like to see more of - give it that industrialized/utilitarian feel.

Edited by Skwisgaar Skwigelf, 22 December 2011 - 11:41 AM.

[KillBox]

Well then, gents, it would seem there's a bit of a schism - less mechanical complexity (meaning fewer things that can go wrong) versus the pilot's ability to comfortably view the battefield (increasing situational awareness).

Do you fellows reckon any of this "fictional pragmatism" makes it into the eventual artwork?

[Dihm]

Depends on the artist. For some (most?) of them, I'd say no way. Others seem to be a tad more grounded.

[KillBox]

From what I've seen, Alex Iglesias does seem to be in the "more grounded" zone. The Mechs so far seem to have realistically sized gun-barrells, genuine-looking ablative plating and butting platework where it seems to be needed - all that without rounding everything off as they tend to do in Anime.