60 replies to this topic

[Johnathan Tanner]

SuperMCDad, on 25 March 2018 - 10:04 PM, said:

Well, I apologise for for encroaching on your game mode. I've been bringing a mastered Griffin-2N, with a reasonable build, and trying my best to work with the team to secure wins. But don't worry, after the event, I'll leave you to your thriving game mode. GLHF.

What team is there in scouting lol?

[Johnathan Tanner]

Scouting is one of the last relics of phase 3. [redacted] Scouting was designed to support the 12 man queue.(By providing game breaking, population slaying, mode killing nuclear weapons) Scouting no longer fulfills any meaningful function to the 12 man queue(LOL THAT RADAR IS WORTHLESS). It only takes people out of the real queue,[redacted] I have no problem with the existence of a medium brawlers paradise.... As long as it is in quick play where zero effort is not only encouraged, But actively rewarded.

Edited by Tina Benoit, 02 May 2018 - 02:47 PM.
nonconstructive

[BTGbullseye]

Nightbird, on 25 March 2018 - 07:31 PM, said:

Just need to communicate out that you can do 200 damage in scouting to earn the event loot. Much faster than invasion and easy with SRMs.

Easier with dual LBX20's on a HBK-IIC... (less heat, same damage)

[Hanky Spam]

BTGbullseye, on 25 March 2018 - 11:40 PM, said:

Easier with dual LBX20's on a HBK-IIC... (less heat, same damage)

Unless you are facing someone who knows how to deal with the LBX20 HBK-IIC, because it's not like that every enemy will try to get close to you...

[justcallme A S H]

Yeah the LBX20 HBKIIC is pure glass cannon. Not a good choice.

[BTGbullseye]

justcallme A S H, on 26 March 2018 - 12:20 AM, said:

Yeah the LBX20 HBKIIC is pure glass cannon. Not a good choice.

Facetanks everything short of RAC5's fairly well in practice...

[justcallme A S H]

There is a reason you don't see them in 1v1s at a higher level in MWO.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 26 March 2018 - 02:31 AM.

[Bud Crue]

The bar could not be lower indeed.

Now me and mine don’t play FP very much anymore. But this weekend we had 5 willing victims so we did a few drops. One of them was thee most epic example of pug asshatery I have ever seen. Some of you in this thread were there as witness. It was horrible. Our 5 man was tight (despite booze) made an effort, had a great and well respected drop caller. The 7...SEVEN...others on our “team” had another agenda (admittedly 2 did seem to be trying) which I presume was to simply get their 50 match score and get out. Two ran to a different gate each wave...and managed to die at one without even opening the gates (but I have no idea why they went there in the first place). One tried countering our calls and then ignored both our calls and his own! Two of them dropped light and ran ahead to alpha and die as quickly as possible. By the time the reds appeared to just say screw it and dropped some lights to charge out and finish us off all we could do was keep marching out to die as a 5 man. It wasn’t pretty. It wasn’t fun and I think it was all because of this stupid 50 match score event. If there were any of these mythical “new players” present on either side I would bet that match may have jaded them to never want to play the mode again.

Next time PGI, keep the score requirement higher for FP, ok? 250 was fine for scouting last time, even I managed to finish that event, but 50? That’s just a joke and encourages bad play.

[Blue Splint]

Johnathan Tanner, on 25 March 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

Scouting is one of the last relics of phase 3. Every single thing in that patch was mode killing cancer. Scouting was designed to support the 12 man queue.(By providing game breaking, population slaying, mode killing nuclear weapons) Scouting no longer fulfills any meaningful function to the 12 man queue(LOL THAT RADAR IS WORTHLESS). ...

You're entitled to your view of course, but some of us enjoy scouting as a game mode in itself, and couldn't care less about what external function it's supposed to serve.

Quote

It only takes people out of the real queue

Why you are calling one the real queue and one the fake queue? Seems a bit silly, just play what you prefer and let others have their fun too. Besides, are you meaning to say you're having queue problems in invasion during this event? I'd be surprised if that was the case.

Outside events, I can understand this gripe, but then again scouting is fairly dead outside events recently anyway, so I don't know how many players it's really taking away from the invasion queue. And you're assuming that people playing scouting would just switch to invasion if it was taken out, but that's not necessarily true. I guess overall if scouting was eliminated, there would be slightly more players playing invasion, but all-in-all both game modes get pretty deserted sometimes outside events, and I think it's more because of what they consist of or how they're set up logistically than because they both exist, and in that sense the real queue "taking people away" from invasion is quick play.

Quote

I have no problem with the existence of a medium brawlers paradise

Sure, most people play scouting that way, for a number of reasons. But scouting has RPS dynamics with kiters and fast-brawlers (and smokedivers but those are "balanced" out of the mode by making their rewards terrible). If you think scouting is just brawlers smashing into each other, you're wrong. If you actually get into it there's a nice variety, and frequently the most reliable way to win is to not take your classic brawler.

As far as event choices go (responding to the OP), I guess that PGI could have engineered this one better to avoid selfish farming-then-suicide play from some people in invasion, although I want to think the report system should be able to help with this (only retroactively, but still). As it stands for me, it's been a lot of fun in scouting, with little to none of that type of behavior whatsoever.

Edited by Blue Splint, 26 March 2018 - 04:48 AM.

[Generic Internetter]

This type of complaint is staple across all team-based games.
If you think about all the factors, the reality dawns on you:
In any team game you have only two options...
1. Embrace the law of averages - on average the enemy suffer the same as you do.
2. Eliminate the law of averages by only dropping in premade groups: Good pugs or unit groups.

Edited by Generic Internetter, 26 March 2018 - 08:14 AM.

[Hierarch]

Adding my 2 cents here. I've actually not seen much of what the Original Post details, in fact I'd go on to say I've seen a good deal of the opposite. The problem I feel is the difference in pilot skill required to play Clan over IS, and our weapon systems. Sadly the Scrow and even more so the Lanner don't really stand up to this Bushwhacker meta with any weapon system other then laser vomit which is madly heat inefficient. So while the IS mechs can go full derp clans have to play a much better game, using cover to cool down, sharing armor quickly and efficiently and making sure you're targeting not just the same mech but the same spot. These are things pugs really have trouble doing on both sides, but for clan it is a requirement for IS it's more of a suggestion.

[Generic Internetter]

Jack Cisco, on 26 March 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

Adding my 2 cents here. I've actually not seen much of what the Original Post details, in fact I'd go on to say I've seen a good deal of the opposite. The problem I feel is the difference in pilot skill required to play Clan over IS, and our weapon systems. Sadly the Scrow and even more so the Lanner don't really stand up to this Bushwhacker meta with any weapon system other then laser vomit which is madly heat inefficient. So while the IS mechs can go full derp clans have to play a much better game, using cover to cool down, sharing armor quickly and efficiently and making sure you're targeting not just the same mech but the same spot.

Not saying you're wrong, but when playing on the IS side I hear exactly the inverse.

Specifically for scouting missions, the Clan meta builds I've seen are the horrifying SPL-spam Nova, the Piranha PIR-1 with 12 HMG's (works fantastically if you can avoid getting one-shotted with SRMs), and the Huntsman is basically a hevy mech disguised as a medium and has various good scouting build options. (I have 3)
IS players hate these builds just as much as Clanners hate Bushwacker and Griffon SRM alphas.

For invasion, I can't really comment much from personal experience. However traditionally the meta was always in favour of Clanner ERLL builds (TBRs, EBJs, HBRs, etc), tearing through IS mechs with pinpoint accuracy. I've been on both the giving and receiving end of this and it really is effective.

Jack Cisco, on 26 March 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

These are things pugs really have trouble doing on both sides, but for clan it is a requirement for IS it's more of a suggestion.

I don't understand how you differentiate between requirement and suggestion. If for IS playing well is a suggestion, then they can opt to ignore the suggestion and play badly? Nope... They get trashed - It's a requirement on both sides.

Again, not saying you're wrong, just saying that the other side is justified when they make the inverse argument.

Edited by Generic Internetter, 26 March 2018 - 08:25 AM.

[LORD ORION]

250 is one of those weird score brackets that effects bother upper and lower levels of play.

Pugs, well, many can barely reach 250 even on a win.

12vs12 meta spec'd mechs with people who are not spraying damage all over the enemy is more complicated.
The losing team usually is right below 250 across the board, and the winning team can also have several members just below the threshold if they have a wave or two where they died early (because their capable teamates will steal all their damage potential while the dead await regroup)

I'd like to think this is a PGI experiment to see if
1) pugs will accept getting repeatedly clubbed if they can reach the score limit.
2) It keeps 12 mans intact, because very often I'd see some groups split into 2x 6 man teams, Why? they'd make their 250 points much easier. eg: 9/10 times they roll a pug group and all get 250. On that 1/10 times they run into another 12 man, they can still make 250 on a loss by stealing the damage the 6 other pugs can't generate. Instead of missing 250 maybe 1/5 times through no real fault of their own.

Edited by LORD ORION, 26 March 2018 - 08:38 AM.

[Hierarch]

@

Generic Internetter, on 26 March 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

Not saying you're wrong, but when playing on the IS side I hear exactly the inverse.

Specifically for scouting missions, the Clan meta builds I've seen are the horrifying SPL-spam Nova, the Piranha PIR-1 with 12 HMG's (works fantastically if you can avoid getting one-shotted with SRMs), and the Huntsman is basically a hevy mech disguised as a medium and has various good scouting build options. (I have 3)
IS players hate these builds just as much as Clanners hate Bushwacker and Griffon SRM alphas.

For invasion, I can't really comment much from personal experience. However traditionally the meta was always in favour of Clanner ERLL builds (TBRs, EBJs, HBRs, etc), tearing through IS mechs with pinpoint accuracy. I've been on both the giving and receiving end of this and it really is effective.



I don't understand how you differentiate between requirement and suggestion. If for IS playing well is a suggestion, then they can opt to ignore the suggestion and play badly? Nope... They get trashed - It's a requirement on both sides.

Again, not saying you're wrong, just saying that the other side is justified when they make the inverse argument.

To clarify, I already stated above why Laser Vomit requires more skill to use properly. As for the PIR you said it yourself. It takes a good bit of skill when your opponent can erase you with 1 shot. The Huntsman is probably our standout but comes in at 5 tons lighter and C-SRM's are just factually worse which is what nearly every Huntsman is using.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

So these players who are intrested in loot bags and loot bags alone, why are they only intrested in 50 of them? Scoring less than 100 MS will not give them over 50 lootbags, nor warhorn or the tartan camo.

I believe players genuinely trying only to get 50 MS as fast as possible are very rare, instead the players who we are referring to are very inexperienced and poor in ability.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

justcallme A S H, on 26 March 2018 - 02:31 AM, said:

There is a reason you don't see them in 1v1s at a higher level in MWO.

Just spotted Lizzee having that build and teamed up with Colonel Oneill with streak hunstman. An average player like me can't get any more closer to higher level of playing than that.

[Spare Parts Bin]

I dropped into FP twice in invasion today as a Clan player. This mode is not easy we lost both games. The first was called by a good player and I really tried. Lost all my drop deck but did 3 Kills,4 KMDD,19KA, 6CD, 658 damage.Tried to stay with the group and hand tackle the enemy. The enemy got Omega but lost 36 Mechs to our 28.

The second was Clan invading an IS base it was a complete rout no coordination. I only did 145 damage.

What ticks me off is they only allowed me 240 tons in a deck. Thought it was 265. What gives???

[Colonel Presumptuous]

I like the lower bar, Last event with FP in it I avoided and never finished simply because the best way to do it was with Scouting and this was before we got out Splat Crows back... this time around we actually win alot of Scouting matchs and the ones we dont win we at least do enough for the reward.

Now Invasion THAT is a different story... ive played about 15-20 matchs of it since the event started and we've won all but 2 of those matchs... first was with very unorthodox methods and the other win was when we actually got up against another IS PuG group... the rest have been 10-48 typically, IS win stomp fests where we havent even brought down the IS initial Assualt wave before we've lost 1 1/2 to 2 of our own. However before people say the usual blah blah, YES we where working as a team, YES we were communicating and YES we where focus firing. There was a couple of good close matchs but IS still won since we couldnt deal with the tonnage they could bring.

Its just like it was the last time i played FW back when the civil war patch dropped last year (and that was enough to piss me off so much i didnt touch it until now). IS stomping the living **** out of Clan PuGs... id love to know where the hell these so called OP Clan Stomp fest matchs are i keep hearing the IS FW players bitching about all the time (and yes ive dropped in matchs with big well organised units and still seen the Clans stomped to hell and back), I sure as hell never get into any of them...

So yes, I like that I have a guaranteed double loot bag for my 30 minutes of having to endure a sadomasochistic beat down at the hands of supposedly poor poor bad tech bad mech inferior IS plz ban Clan OP players. (yeah im salty, when your morale and interest in a game you really like gets this low it does kinda effect you, you know. Hell i stopped playing for 4-5 months because of it last time).

Spare Parts Bin, on 26 March 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

I dropped into FP twice in invasion today as a Clan player. This mode is not easy we lost both games. The first was called by a good player and I really tried. Lost all my drop deck but did 3 Kills,4 KMDD,19KA, 6CD, 658 damage.Tried to stay with the group and hand tackle the enemy. The enemy got Omega but lost 36 Mechs to our 28.

The second was Clan invading an IS base it was a complete rout no coordination. I only did 145 damage.

What ticks me off is they only allowed me 240 tons in a deck. Thought it was 265. What gives???

We arent allowed a equal tonnage for our drop deck because once long ago we had this advantage with better tech and many IS tears rained down like lurms in a teir 5 QP so to fix it they made our tonnage per player lower... that tech advantage vanished along time ago but the lower tonnage remained while IS got better tech and better mechs and so... we get screwed. They have to revert it, but hey the mercs will all go clan then and stomp the IS bringing another cycle of moaning and nerfs to Clans the perenial cycle.

Edited by Colonel Presumptuous, 26 March 2018 - 01:52 PM.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Colonel Presumptuous, on 26 March 2018 - 01:46 PM, said:

I like the lower bar, Last event with FP in it I avoided and never finished simply because the best way to do it was with Scouting and this was before we got out Splat Crows back... this time around we actually win alot of Scouting matchs and the ones we dont win we at least do enough for the reward.

Now Invasion THAT is a different story... ive played about 15-20 matchs of it since the event started and we've won all but 2 of those matchs... first was with very unorthodox methods and the other win was when we actually got up against another IS PuG group... the rest have been 10-48 typically, IS win stomp fests where we havent even brought down the IS initial Assualt wave before we've lost 1 1/2 to 2 of our own. However before people say the usual blah blah, YES we where working as a team, YES we were communicating and YES we where focus firing. There was a couple of good close matchs but IS still won since we couldnt deal with the tonnage they could bring.

Its just like it was the last time i played FW back when the civil war patch dropped last year (and that was enough to piss me off so much i didnt touch it until now). IS stomping the living **** out of Clan PuGs... id love to know where the hell these so called OP Clan Stomp fest matchs are i keep hearing the IS FW players bitching about all the time (and yes ive dropped in matchs with big well organised units and still seen the Clans stomped to hell and back), I sure as hell never get into any of them...

So yes, I like that I have a guaranteed double loot bag for my 30 minutes of having to endure a sadomasochistic beat down at the hands of supposedly poor poor bad tech bad mech inferior IS plz ban Clan OP players. (yeah im salty, when your morale and interest in a game you really like gets this low it does kinda effect you, you know. Hell i stopped playing for 4-5 months because of it last time).




We arent allowed a equal tonnage for our drop deck because once long ago we had this advantage with better tech and many IS tears rained down like lurms in a teir 5 QP so to fix it they made our tonnage per player lower... that tech advantage vanished along time ago but the lower tonnage remained while IS got better tech and better mechs and so... we get screwed. They have to revert it, but hey the mercs will all go clan then and stomp the IS bringing another cycle of moaning and nerfs to Clans the perenial cycle.

This needs to be fixed with all the quirks given to IS plus the civil war tech. IS Mechs are not roll overs. Facing a wave of Atlas,Annihlators,Battlemaster, etc is NASTY especially with a KIt Fox or Storm Crow.

[Rustyhammer]

Here we go again, crying about Clan OP or IS OP.
Every FP game is not about clan or IS tech, it's about pilots. The side with most potatoes will lose. Look at the current IS vs IS event - plenty of 12/24 vs 48 stomps.
If you play FP frequently you can predict match results pretty accurately at the match start screen, just by looking at the names and unit tags, does not matter IS or Clan. When I'm dropping solo I often can tell you match outcome while in the lobby, even without seeing the enemy roster.
Tonnage restrictions means nothing if you team can crush enemy in just 2 waves. It matters more during close matches but they are so rare these days.