40 replies to this topic

[Toothless]

You guys knew it was overdue for another one of these.

Water. For some reason, PGI has put it all over the place in their maps. Water is pretty and I guess its easier to fill an area with water than detail it with terrain and materials.

So after 5+ years, we can run our mech packs mechs full speed into a lake and...feel zero effect. You dont slow down, you dont lose mobility.

We already have this in game, when you get legged you get slow/sluggish, when you lose a clan torso a somewhat similar effect. But water not affecting your mech is completely bizarre, and I guess the playerbase has just kind of grown accustomed to the silliness.

You can give a "well with so many other issues why is this important" response, thats cool if you want to. I feel lazy and complacent sometimes too. But I feel that since water is such a fundamental part of PGI's map designs that it should, you know, do something. Lava heats you up, right? MWO players HATE hot things, oh man. Hot maps are the worst! So use that selective hate and fuel it towards the inadequacies of water as well. They can make lava do something but not water! Let the biased hate run through you.

Edited by Toothless, 27 March 2018 - 03:13 AM.

[Bombast]

While interesting, I worry what mechanical effect this would have on the game. River City would for sure become an even greater camping fest if people trying to cross had to deal with mobility loss.

Edited by Bombast, 27 March 2018 - 03:21 AM.

[Sniper09121986]

Actually for the most part water on MWO maps is more like a puddle to mechs. Do puddles resist you? Also about a year ago there was this FUBAR when mechs would come to a screeching halt when trying to step over some pebble because the game engine did not distinguish it from a mountain slope. Do you want to get caught in every puddle like a fly in jam? I think not.

[Bud Crue]

I second this sentiment (as is often the case when it comes up).
Alas, I suspect we will get water and other similar enviornmental interactions (I want to see a mech slip on the Ice and fall on its can, I want to see a Locust skid around a corner and smash into a building (ala CityTech), I want to slide down the mountains of Alpine and end up half buried in the snow, I want the sands of Tourmaline and Rubelite to be a bit more of a burden for my 60 ton mech to trudge through than the smooth surfaces of Crimson’s roads, etc.) just as soon as we get IK, melee, knock downs, a return to phase 2 CW, tiers that have meaning, and efforts to grow the population of the game...so, like, never.

[Toothless]

Sniper09121986, on 27 March 2018 - 03:23 AM, said:

Actually for the most part water on MWO maps is more like a puddle to mechs. Do puddles resist you? Also about a year ago there was this FUBAR when mechs would come to a screeching halt when trying to step over some pebble because the game engine did not distinguish it from a mountain slope. Do you want to get caught in every puddle like a fly in jam? I think not.

Unsure of what game you are playing. There are no puddles. Crimson city, river city, forest colony...these clearly show water deep enough to immerse lights legs, and certainly deep enough to obscure an assault mechs shins.

Its simple, take a linebacker (a real life big football guy) and have him run as fast as possible through, say, 6 inches of water. Enjoy!

The water issue has nothing to do with PGI and its death pebble problems.

Bombast, on 27 March 2018 - 03:20 AM, said:

While interesting, I worry what mechanical effect this would have on the game. River City would for sure become an even greater camping fest if people trying to cross had to deal with mobility loss.

But its almost as if they should have taken this into account when designing their maps from the beginning...

Edited by Toothless, 27 March 2018 - 03:30 AM.

[Bombast]

Toothless, on 27 March 2018 - 03:29 AM, said:

But its almost as if they should have taken this into account when designing their maps from the beginning...

But they didn't. Because water physics wasn't a thing.

But now you want to add it even though the maps aren't designed for it. That's kind of my point.

[Toothless]

Bombast, on 27 March 2018 - 03:36 AM, said:

But they didn't. Because water physics wasn't a thing.

But now you want to add it even though the maps aren't designed for it. That's kind of my point.

We are making the same point. Its such a fundamental aspect that was ignored from the beginning that people are numb and do not even realize how out of place it is, for the most part. I remember when they FINALLY got destructible trees and it was mind blowing how long it took and how much of a difference it made.

[Bombast]

Toothless, on 27 March 2018 - 03:43 AM, said:

We are making the same point. Its such a fundamental aspect that was ignored from the beginning that people are numb and do not even realize how out of place it is, for the most part. I remember when they FINALLY got destructible trees and it was mind blowing how long it took and how much of a difference it made.

But destructible trees add nothing but frustration as they eat AC/20 shells.

[Sniper09121986]

Toothless, on 27 March 2018 - 03:29 AM, said:

But its almost as if they should have taken this into account when designing their maps from the beginning...

And they did. MWO is a game of cybersport. It is a crossbreed of mech simulator and arena shooter. Or do you want a Piloting check every time you enter said water or a big LRM salvo hits you? Or when any mech hits you? Remember, if you fail, you fall, and with five falls it is bye-bye.

[Vellron2005]

Toothless, on 27 March 2018 - 03:12 AM, said:

You guys knew it was overdue for another one of these.

Water. For some reason, PGI has put it all over the place in their maps. Water is pretty and I guess its easier to fill an area with water than detail it with terrain and materials.

So after 5+ years, we can run our mech packs mechs full speed into a lake and...feel zero effect. You dont slow down, you dont lose mobility.

We already have this in game, when you get legged you get slow/sluggish, when you lose a clan torso a somewhat similar effect. But water not affecting your mech is completely bizarre, and I guess the playerbase has just kind of grown accustomed to the silliness.

You can give a "well with so many other issues why is this important" response, thats cool if you want to. I feel lazy and complacent sometimes too. But I feel that since water is such a fundamental part of PGI's map designs that it should, you know, do something. Lava heats you up, right? MWO players HATE hot things, oh man. Hot maps are the worst! So use that selective hate and fuel it towards the inadequacies of water as well. They can make lava do something but not water! Let the biased hate run through you.

While I appreciate your name's similarity with a crackmaster, a dragon, and an old lady, and I also appreciate your need for realistic physics.. yeah, most water is more like puddles to a mech..

Also, to move it's weight around, the mech's myomer muscles have to have so much power, that I can realistically imagine water drag not having a big effect on it.

Also, Mechwarrior games in general, and Battletech as a setting is so out-dated that the very concept of a Mech on the modern battlefield would be a laughably easy target to take down, so I don't really get hung up on water drag..

Yes, it's illogical. So is a 7 ton computer needed to improve a weapon's trajectory - something a laptop can do today. So is 300 years of clan technological advancement only yielding a few hundred meters of range on a 500yo IS laser..

Many many things are illogical in MWO..

[Bud Crue]

Bombast, on 27 March 2018 - 03:46 AM, said:

But destructible trees add nothing but frustration as they eat AC/20 shells.

If I could burn the trees on Forest, or cut them down via a chainsaw of bullets with a RAC5, I would probably vote for that map everytime.

[Vellron2005]

Bud Crue, on 27 March 2018 - 04:06 AM, said:

If I could burn the trees on Forest, or cut them down via a chainsaw of bullets with a RAC5, I would probably vote for that map everytime.

Bud Crue - environmentalist

[Scyther]

Actually water in Canada is quite hard, and we often run across it. We are unsurprised that Jesus walked across the water because we can do that pretty much any time we like. In fact it is quite possible to go much faster on water than on mere ground, all you need is some metal things on your feet.

Note: Battlemechs feet are made of metal, and thus, by Canadian standards, should go at least twice as fast on water.

In the spirit of compromise though (which all good Canadians strive for), since you want them to go half-speed in water, and yet we know you can easily go double-speed with metal feet... on average mech speed remains unaltered.


You're welcome!

[El Bandito]

Stupid Lights getting 90% resistance to damage when merged in water should move at least 50% slower.

[Sniper09121986]

Vellron2005, on 27 March 2018 - 04:03 AM, said:

Also, to move it's weight around, the mech's myomer muscles have to have so much power, that I can realistically imagine water drag not having a big effect on it.

It does, but only at depth 1 or 2, when the mech is fully submerged.

El Bandito, on 27 March 2018 - 05:02 AM, said:

Stupid Lights getting 90% resistance to damage when merged in water should move at least 50% slower.

And taking QUAD DAMAGE from shaft PPC weapons

[Tom Sawyer]

Bud Crue, on 27 March 2018 - 04:06 AM, said:

If I could burn the trees on Forest, or cut them down via a chainsaw of bullets with a RAC5, I would probably vote for that map everytime.

I want to be able to burn the trees.
I want to be able to shoot the large gas(?) tanks and watch them explode along with mechs next to them
I want to be to shoot the dam on river city and flood the whole damn map.
I want the water on canyon to slowly rise forcing mechs to seek high ground or suffer.

I also want a chipolte burrito, lots and lots of white rice, no beans, lots of steak, and lots of cheese. and a side of lime chips

Edited by Tom Sawyer, 27 March 2018 - 05:36 AM.

[Khobai]

no thanks

we dont need even less of a reason to go in the water

[Toothless]

Khobai, on 27 March 2018 - 05:47 AM, said:

no thanks

we dont need even less of a reason to go in the water

Solid logic, I think you've won the argument right there. If anything, to counter this clear and present danger we should make water heal damage to your mech, and make it a magical elixir that makes your mech move twice as fast. Making water act like water is just absurd.

[Khobai]

making water act like water is absurd because there would absolutely be noreason to go into water if it slowed your mech down to a crawl.

you would just be further decreasing the playable area of already small maps. smaller playable areas on maps benefits NO ONE.

bad idea is bad.

besides it seems kindve disingenuous to pick on water as violating the laws of physics when so many other things in MWO violate physics too. the game obviously takes place in a parallel dimension with different laws of physics where water is less dense.

Edited by Khobai, 27 March 2018 - 06:34 AM.

[Gaussfather]

Well, if you want to do it right it should have a greater effect the deeper you are in the water... but those people that enjoy running underwater locusts (who doesn't?) would immediately whine. I'm all for it, the gameplay has gotten stale, everyone chooses same maps and with domination mode its just run to the middle of the map and camp.

Adding any terrain improvements that might make you have to think more tactically during a match is a great idea in my view. Want to cross River City, OK push the bridges, that's what they are there for.