Actually it is the other way round.
It is the fault of the lights.
Scout class in Battletech has absolutely no place in an all out heavy Battlemech rumble.
A single hit from a large laser should be enough to cripple or even destroy all but most light/scout mechs.
Instead you can fire two ER PPC or even an AC20 into them and they just run along as if nothing happend most of the time.
In addition the fact that you can slap a bunch of firelighter smal lasers that are little more than dialed up comlasers or Infantery deterants and they just fuse together to become one mighty weaponsystem able to take on an Assault mech is beyond hillarious.
So...well yes lights in MWO are more than 10x more powerfull than they should be and that a mech like the piranha is able to do more than the 2.4dps it should be able to do with its 12 MGs and infact does 16.8dps without quirks and skills when using HMGs or still 12 dps when using standart MGs is just a bad joke.
So you saying every time you see a light they become the bane of your existance and no matter what you do they're impossible to kill even tho a ac20 would mortally cripple them(unless they have strong durabilty quirks), erppc have weird hit decetion in general. Also you abosutly hate the fact they can have any sort of firepower causes you distress.
And I want to throw this out now not every light is a scout, some built to combat other lights or classes heavier than tham. Seriously if you don't like the fact lights have (somewhat) a equally chance to fight mechs heavier than themselves then go wait for mw5 or older mw titles to just play heavy or assaults only.
Well, I' vote for nerfing piranha. A single fresh piranha can vipe out 2-3 cored mechs before killed. It is not really cool.In FW often used to wipe out cored dominating heavy/assault team(like a countermeasure, way too effective IMO).A nice way to do it could be some Accel/Decel nerf, so piranha become a real "a high risk high reward" mech.
I even think that every omnipod with 2+ ballistic hardpoint should get negative Accel/Decel quirks.
Well then I suggest those 2 to 3 mechs learn to aim better. If a Piranha gets in the middle of 2 to 3 mechs they should die a painful death. This is part of the problem, folks just don't know how to aim and or lead their targets. I have not seen any waves of Piranha's in FP that do what you say happens. Maybe once or twice on a Full Blue Blood Moon it might happen, but never seen it or experienced it. Even fully Spec'ed in mobility Piranha's have a hard time staying behind an assault mech, especially the lighter ones. Even an Anny can maneuver well enough to get it out from behind him.
GweNTLeR, on 03 April 2018 - 02:03 AM, said:
12 mg=12 sustained dps without any compromises. It is a REALLY bad idea to boost it even further.
Losing 2-3 assaults to kill a cored team is a little different to losing 2-3 piranhas, you know.
12 MG to be useful has to be within 140? meters... Seismic is 200 meters... so hmmmm how do we "sneak" up on you? Oh thats right, you do not put any back armor on because your team has your back correct? To be effective it has to stay on target usually within 100 meters due to the little spread. We have to FACE YOU to do it AND preferably have to stay behind you. There is a ZERO chance of face tanking any assault mech with a Skill vs Skill players... that is simply a fact. I am sorry but assaults get LEFT behind by their team. Lights take advantage of that.... THAT IS THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM
The Basilisk, on 03 April 2018 - 02:32 AM, said:
Actually it is the other way round.
It is the fault of the lights.
Scout class in Battletech has absolutely no place in an all out heavy Battlemech rumble.
A single hit from a large laser should be enough to cripple or even destroy all but most light/scout mechs.
Instead you can fire two ER PPC or even an AC20 into them and they just run along as if nothing happend most of the time.
In addition the fact that you can slap a bunch of firelighter smal lasers that are little more than dialed up comlasers or Infantery deterants and they just fuse together to become one mighty weaponsystem able to take on an Assault mech is beyond hillarious.
So...well yes lights in MWO are more than 10x more powerfull than they should be and that a mech like the piranha is able to do more than the 2.4dps it should be able to do with its 12 MGs and infact does 16.8dps without quirks and skills when using HMGs or still 12 dps when using standart MGs is just a bad joke.
Please take True Battletech out of this conversation... it does not apply.
The fact of the matter is this
There are 18 Light Varians
There are 26 Medium Variants
There are 25 Heavy Variants
There are 22 Assault Variants
Lights have been stomped into the ground since the get go. This is one of the main reasons why the light queue (except events) is usually less than 10%. The great Rescale was really the nail in the coffin for most lights. Only the Locust survived that and THAT is the reason it became so strong after that... it actually got smaller. It destroyed the 35 ton mechs. Seriously when is the last time you saw a Jenner or a Firestarter. The wolfhound is the best medium the IS has right now only due to quirks,
I would really like to know how many dedicated light pilots are even left. My friends list of them stays grayed out almost every night and I have close to a hundred of them on there. Lights are painful to play yet when we get one that might compete the assaults come bitching to the forums because ohhhhh no Battletech rules say lights are suppose to suck.
The fact of the matter is a light should be JUST AS MUCH FUN to play as an assault or a heavy mech. The power creep has been strong for a long time towards heavies and assault mechs with the lights being left out in the cold. A light should has just a good a chance of influencing a match as an assault.
If you want to see the real issue at hand, and actually watch videos of lights playing.... They capitalize on mistakes.. To my knowledge there is not a light that can one shot an Medium, heavy or an assault at 500+ meters. Yet almost every variant of a medium heavy or an assault can one shot a light at 500+ meters.
Once again, situational awareness is the bane of this game.
Here is another video of a locust doing the same thing as a Piranha.... Whats the difference?
Really thought I had more locust video's uploaded... going to have to fix that.
Edited by Darian DelFord, 03 April 2018 - 04:26 AM.
Don't nerf the Piranha, do something about MG's crit ability. Less crit in return for slightly more damage, perhaps. Cause right now having 20+ tons of weapons stripped in 2 seconds is not fun.
Yeah, crits. I was thinking, what if crit chance was dependant on number of MGs, like ghost heat but ghost crit.
Like:
4 mg - 100% of a current crit chance each
6 mg - 0.7 crit chance multiplier fro each mg - overall result is a little more crit chance than 4 mg but less that 6 mg's currently
8 mg - 0.55 crit chance multiplier - little more total crit chance than 4 mg but less than 8 mg's currently
Just as a general approach, dont take the numbers too seriously.
NERF PIRANHA?! no no no no ... get more rear armor! Why? because when that @$#^@$&$# runs up behind you to blow its load, guess what. You can turn and smack that $#@^$&%#^.
I would like to see some diminishing returns on mgs. I like the idea of slightly higher damage and less crit, or slightly less crit when you're boating.
Ghost heat is stupid, holding the button down is the best part of machine guns.
I'm a pretty average player and I can count on one hand the amount of times this seasn so far that a PIR has gotten me, and of those times I was going to die really soon anyways.
You have to watch the periphery of the battlefield. They always circle wide almost always inside of radar range. When you see a light scoot by, call it out. If everyone knows a couple mediums or lights can turn and make short work of it.
I've been killing them with mrms, and mrms are kind of a poopy weapon system.
Actually it is the other way round.
It is the fault of the lights.
Scout class in Battletech has absolutely no place in an all out heavy Battlemech rumble.
A single hit from a large laser should be enough to cripple or even destroy all but most light/scout mechs.
Instead you can fire two ER PPC or even an AC20 into them and they just run along as if nothing happend most of the time.
In addition the fact that you can slap a bunch of firelighter smal lasers that are little more than dialed up comlasers or Infantery deterants and they just fuse together to become one mighty weaponsystem able to take on an Assault mech is beyond hillarious.
So...well yes lights in MWO are more than 10x more powerfull than they should be and that a mech like the piranha is able to do more than the 2.4dps it should be able to do with its 12 MGs and infact does 16.8dps without quirks and skills when using HMGs or still 12 dps when using standart MGs is just a bad joke.
That's what happens when you let people control everything directly instead of using dice. The fast, mobile, fragile high-skillcap 'mechs are naturally more dangerous when they can get decent engine ratings and pilots who can use their positive attributes effectively.
There is, after all, a reason that you don't see superheavy tanks any more while IFVs are going strong. Mobile multi-role vehicles are more useful than rolling (walking) blobs of armor.
Darian DelFord, on 03 April 2018 - 04:07 AM, said:
Well then I suggest those 2 to 3 mechs learn to aim better. If a Piranha gets in the middle of 2 to 3 mechs they should die a painful death. This is part of the problem, folks just don't know how to aim and or lead their targets. I have not seen any waves of Piranha's in FP that do what you say happens. Maybe once or twice on a Full Blue Blood Moon it might happen, but never seen it or experienced it. Even fully Spec'ed in mobility Piranha's have a hard time staying behind an assault mech, especially the lighter ones. Even an Anny can maneuver well enough to get it out from behind him.
12 MG to be useful has to be within 140? meters... Seismic is 200 meters... so hmmmm how do we "sneak" up on you? Oh thats right, you do not put any back armor on because your team has your back correct? To be effective it has to stay on target usually within 100 meters due to the little spread. We have to FACE YOU to do it AND preferably have to stay behind you. There is a ZERO chance of face tanking any assault mech with a Skill vs Skill players... that is simply a fact. I am sorry but assaults get LEFT behind by their team. Lights take advantage of that.... THAT IS THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM
.
What are you smoking...
You dont need to stay completely behind to kill a cored assault. You dont need to have a full piranha team to kill many cored enemy assaults with them. (2-4 with some med/heavy support is sufficient). Ofc some Assaults might kill a piranha even cored like double HG ones, but you basically have a single chance to do it - if you hit piranhas arm or side torso or even leg somewhere below 200m away - you are likely to die before second shot). And since only a completely ******** piranha will start facetanking from 500m away, that happens very often.
Only a completely blind person can ignore the fact that the lightest mech has one of the highest sustained DPS in the game (and roughly 45+t max DPS even when firing on armor, with MUCH MUCH higher DPS on structure), a very nice mobility and hitboxes.
Or, maybe you dont know what term "cored" means?
The video - do you realize that the locust you play has just ~3 sustained dps(4 with maxed heat related nodes, which is a HUGE investment) and 7(8) max? While piranha gets 12(even more on structure) with ZERO investment in weapons and operations?
Darian DelFord, on 02 April 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:
And this is the main point. Folks do not know how the numbers get generated. I have watched that video several times now and still have no clue how I got that much. But all Assaults and heavies see is a 20 ton mech kicking their arse and come to the forums to complain about it. When the majority of the time its their own dang fault.
Yes the Piranha is a strong light.... probably the strongest. Yet the other lights have been nerfed into the ground all because people have no situational awareness.
The reality is MGs are way OP. MGs are anti-infantry weapons and were never intended to be used against battlemechs in the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe, it is just ridiculous how much damage they do.
All I can say is take a .50 cal MG, load up AP round and then go fire it at an M1 Abrams Tank and see how far that gets you. Hell take 12 of them or 20 or 50 because the result is going to be the same, a few dings in the paint job, maybe. Hell you could fire a 30mm chain gun into the front of an Abrams and not hurt it.
Now I am not saying MGs should do zero damage in game because too many mechs rely on them but it is obvious they are too effective in game, well obvious to anyone not playing their OP'ed mech mounting mass MGs. By the way I own the Piranha and several other MG reliant lights and mediums for that matter and STILL feel MGs damage is way out of line.
the piranah has paper armor, its only saving grace is the 12 mgs which is not a strong as people think. From what i gathered watching the pirnah doing well vids is that most of the enemy team is either spread out or oblivious to the threat behind them OR the prinah is just cleaning up exposed enemies who were dmged by the team already. Piranah is a good cleanup mech, but if people have awarness and check their rear the threat can easily be dealt with. As for playing the pirnah it comes down to timing, knowing when to get behind teh enemy and start chiping away or after a huge battle playing cleanup
The reality is MGs are way OP. MGs are anti-infantry weapons and were never intended to be used against battlemechs in the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe, it is just ridiculous how much damage they do.
All I can say is take a .50 cal MG, load up AP round and then go fire it at an M1 Abrams Tank and see how far that gets you. Hell take 12 of them or 20 or 50 because the result is going to be the same, a few dings in the paint job, maybe. Hell you could fire a 30mm chain gun into the front of an Abrams and not hurt it.
Now I am not saying MGs should do zero damage in game because too many mechs rely on them but it is obvious they are too effective in game, well obvious to anyone not playing their OP'ed mech mounting mass MGs. By the way I own the Piranha and several other MG reliant lights and mediums for that matter and STILL feel MGs damage is way out of line.
You still don't understand how Ablative Armor works, do you?
I think it's a bit silly that a hot garbage player like me can get into one and get 4-5 kills, 800 damage with very little work.
This isn't a "high skill" mech. Just like the pre nerf crit lynx before it, crit killing things at 400ms with lmgs, the PIR is a very easy way to clean up whole matches, even in the hands of a ****** player.
People are actually still arguing "lights shouldn't be able to fight heavier mechs" and "machine guns shouldn't be good against mechs" with a straight face, that's pretty incredible.
1: This is a PvP arena shooter, balance in PvP games means all choices available need to be made as competitively viable as possible.
2: There is only battlemechs to fight in this game, therefore the only relevance for the balance of a weapon is it's effectiveness against other mechs.
3: Each player has 1 mech, therefore every mech, when played as optimal as possible, needs to have a comparable impact on the chances to win a match.
4: In MWO matches are primarily won through combat even in the modes with alternate wincons, and there are lights in every match including skirmish that is pure combat. So in order to accomplish 3 above, lights needs to be good in combat at a level comparable to heavier mechs.
4: The definition of something being overpowered in a PvP game is that it has an abnormal average match impact and trends towards dominating the metagame. There is no evidence that the Piranha or machine guns does either of those.
LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.
Posted 03 April 2018 - 06:03 AM
Piranha-1 is a crazy good mech for 20 tons bracket. Which means little in SQ, but means a lot in GQ, and even more in FP.
Sjorpha, on 03 April 2018 - 05:58 AM, said:
3: Each player has 1 mech, therefore every mech, when played as optimal as possible, needs to have a comparable impact on the chances to win a match.
Again, that rule doesn't work well in GQ, and especially FP. Which is why Clan mechs are still overall superior in QP since IS mechs do not get extra tonnage crutch in that mode. And why Piranha at 20 tons has crazy amount of value for certain modes. PGI doesn't seem to have the capability or will to make tonnage/faction balance work separately for all modes.
Piranha's need a bit of a nerf, but I'm not sure how they could do it. They can't nerf Machine Guns, they aren't overpowered unless you have more than 8 of them. They can't make the PIR any squishier. But if you are playing an assault mech or a heavy mech, the second a PIR gets behind you you're already dead. At the very minimum you lose half your guns instantly.
Yes, if you have teammates around that's probably not gonna happen, but the damn thing SHINES when it holds back until the end of the engagement, when the teams are pretty wrecked. The guys you see doing ~200 dmg with them are the suicidal pilots. A good pilot in a PIR can do way more than they can in any other light mech. I've seen pilots regularly do 1k damage in them, tearing through 3-4 mechs by themselves if they wait for the right moment to strike. In any other mech, they'd be doing several hundred less (though still tearing through several mechs, just slower, and not as regularly).
So I'm really not sure what can even be done to fix this. Probably nothing. The best solution is to just make sure the Flea is competitive with it, though I have a feeling it won't be because IS MG's are twice the weight. Maybe give the Flea a 100% MG RoF quirk, so its machine guns are on an equal footing.
Clan mechs are squishy, but with high damage output--either high alpha or high DPS. I think the problem people are having right now is that the piranha doesn't have that many lights that counter it well. Part of that being that the light population is super low, the other part being that other lights don't have enough damage output to take down that paper thin armor first. Kind of sad when the Urbie might be the best light counter to one, right?
I'm not saying they should gimp the piranha or clan MGs, but other lights could use enough of a boost somewhere to be able to counter them. As it is right now, piranhas end up being priority target--as in "everyone stop what you are doing and nuke that piranha" as soon as they are spotted.
The reality is MGs are way OP. MGs are anti-infantry weapons and were never intended to be used against battlemechs in the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe, it is just ridiculous how much damage they do.
All I can say is take a .50 cal MG, load up AP round and then go fire it at an M1 Abrams Tank and see how far that gets you. Hell take 12 of them or 20 or 50 because the result is going to be the same, a few dings in the paint job, maybe. Hell you could fire a 30mm chain gun into the front of an Abrams and not hurt it.
Now I am not saying MGs should do zero damage in game because too many mechs rely on them but it is obvious they are too effective in game, well obvious to anyone not playing their OP'ed mech mounting mass MGs. By the way I own the Piranha and several other MG reliant lights and mediums for that matter and STILL feel MGs damage is way out of line.
Oh look, another person who doesn't know their BTech lore or technology and assumes that because it says "machine gun" it's a man-portable weapon firing .50BMG.
BTech "machine guns" that are vehicle-mounted are closer to a 20mm autocannon. Which are, in fact, also quite effective in an anti-infantry role.
Darian DelFord, on 02 April 2018 - 05:48 PM, said:
Alll lights are OP in a wolf pack if they are on one mech. Not so much when there are an equal amount of mechs around.
Show me a vid where a piranha does the majority of damage to all the mechs. Show me a video where a piranha is face tanking an assault pilot who knows how to aim and more importantly does not have his arm lock on. Literally every vid I have seen the piranha's and most lights are capitalizing on the mistakes the other mechs make. Lets face it to do well in a light you have to be a step above most others. Lights are by and far the most difficult mechs to get anything out of.
Theres op then theres next level machine gun lights op... big difference, i'm ok with dying to a light wolf pack but those machine guns instantly killing armored non cored mechs is just bogus...
Anyway if nothing is done i'll get some payback on my fleas...
First you will need:
- lemon
- salt
- black pepper
- butter
- fish
First season your fish to your liking of salt and pepper.
Second get out a bake sheet that can hold liquids (not a cookie sheet or pizza sheet).
Third coat the sheet in BUTTER!!!.
Four place fish on the buttered bake sheet.
Five slice half he lemon into and squeeze the other over the fish.
Six place the lemon slices on the fish (one for each).
Seven put the bake sheet with the fish into a pre-heated oven of 250 to 300 Deg. F. until fully cooked, but not over cooked.
When we had the FP event i saw clan pre mades drop in all lights piranhas Myst lynx Gs and ACH mg variants 1 or 2 is tough but 12 at a time just literally rip the other team to pieces and this was pre mades vs pre mades (i was a rare pug in IS side) they literally just massacred the IS side.
IS Assassins and lights just died in seconds the heavies and Assaults didn't stand a hope to match them..
After catching up with this thread, i'm leaning toward the amount of clan machine guns it can boat being the problem. Much like when the Kodiak could fire 4 UAC10's (with a level of agility unseen by any competing mech) with impunity even the 2 uac5's and 2 uac10's.
7
The Basilisk, on 03 April 2018 - 02:32 AM, said:
Why? because when that @$#^@$&$# runs up behind you to blow its load, guess what. You can turn and smack that $#@^$&%#^.
