333 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Hazeclaw, on 05 April 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

There should be ghost heat for more than 6mg or something. I do see people do 1k in other lights but its usually from well known really strong light pilots. Everyone and their mother seems to be able to 1k in piranha. Purely subjective anecdotal point of view, but I see the fishies get 1k more often than all other lights combined

Considering ghost heat uses multipliers, it will have no effect. Zero multiplied by anything is still zero.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 08:01 AM, said:

You say that, and yet, I've NEVER NOT seen a light pilot, good, nor bad, avoid jamming their faces into the legs/*** of a larger 'mech AT LEAST ONCE during any attack the heavier 'mech can actually respond and attempt to fight back.

We NEED knock down since PGI has nerfed rear firing weapons because, <tear drop rolling down cheek> 'Programming is hard...'

Crimany, they could have created rear firing, automated lasers/MGs/SRMs, that work like like AMS but only fire at any enemy 'mech within range to provide some of that same 'table top' feel we had 'mechs that had REAR firing weapons and/or 'ARM FLIP'.

Instead they've nerfed the living shite out of torso pitch and yaw range and speed, and on some 'mechs made it damn near impossible to aim at anything of a certain height inside a certain range of their 'mech because in order to see the target we'd need to move the goddamned minimap...

So yeah, easiest answer: Bring back knock down...

Alternative Viewpoint:
Every light mech that I see who tries that leg humping stuff generally just gets shot and dies because hes pretty much standing still at point blank ranges and arm mounted weapons still work on them, not to mention all the guns that every teammate around that assault mech has.

If said assault mech is far off from his team then I'm assuming he probably wouldn't have done much in that match whether or not some light decided to harass him, or he came prepared and knows exactly what he is doing, though generally its the first assumption that happens.

[Lethe Wyvern]

Mystere, on 05 April 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

Considering ghost heat uses multipliers, it will have no effect. Zero multiplied by anything is still zero.

Shhhhsshh

[K O Z A K]

Xiphias, on 05 April 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:

What an Urban Mech does in 4 minutes 8 seconds:

https://www.reddit.c..._minutes_and_8/

Krivvan in lights op

Mystere, on 05 April 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

Considering ghost heat uses multipliers, it will have no effect. Zero multiplied by anything is still zero.

lol, hush. Well I dunno, they made gauss rifles generate ghost heat so wth, I'm sure they can make some sh*t up

[Dimento Graven]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 08:08 AM, said:

Alternative Viewpoint:
Every light mech that I see who tries that leg humping stuff generally just gets shot and dies because hes pretty much standing still at point blank ranges and arm mounted weapons still work on them, not to mention all the guns that every teammate around that assault mech has.

If said assault mech is far off from his team then I'm assuming he probably wouldn't have done much in that match whether or not some light decided to harass him, or he came prepared and knows exactly what he is doing, though generally its the first assumption that happens.

Unfortunately when it comes to quick play, MOST people tend to ignore the lights killing off their team mates, until that light makes it around to killing them.

Just last night I was in a QP match and had 5 f'ing 'team members' WATCH as a Piranah came behind the 'mech behind me, blow him away, then ******* away before I could get my KGC's torso turned fast enough. Had I another half second to turn I'd have been able to make a bit of a fight of it, and the little f'er would have resorted to smashing into my legs to try and whip below my guns and behind me (there were rocks to my left and I was turning to the right to avoid it, but my *** was already open from an air strike).

So yeah, give us knock down, OR, give us rear mounted weapons, automated short ranged weapons, that will fire on enemies within a certain range. The trade off is less slots/tonnage for weapons that can actually be controlled and aimed, plus the standard heat generation risks... OR, the player could choose to not mount any at all, and take the risk.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Hazeclaw, on 05 April 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

Krivvan in lights op



lol, hush. Well I dunno, they made gauss rifles generate ghost heat so wth, I'm sure they can make some sh*t up

Gauss rifles already generated heat though, and gauss rifles alone generate no ghost heat, they only do that when you fire a PPC with them, so its likely that they just linked gauss heat into PPC heat so it effectively is like firing 3 PPCs through ghost heat if you fire 2 gauss and 1 PPC.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

Unfortunately when it comes to quick play, MOST people tend to ignore the lights killing off their team mates, until that light makes it around to killing them.

Just last night I was in a QP match and had 5 f'ing 'team members' WATCH as a Piranah came behind the 'mech behind me, blow him away, then ******* away before I could get my KGC's torso turned fast enough. Had I another half second to turn I'd have been able to make a bit of a fight of it, and the little f'er would have resorted to smashing into my legs to try and whip below my guns and behind me (there were rocks to my left and I was turning to the right to avoid it, but my *** was already open from an air strike).

So yeah, give us knock down, OR, give us rear mounted weapons, automated short ranged weapons, that will fire on enemies within a certain range. The trade off is less slots/tonnage for weapons that can actually be controlled and aimed, plus the standard heat generation risks... OR, the player could choose to not mount any at all, and take the risk.

I still don't see how knock down will actually help you with these lights though. Even in the situation you described the light never touched anyone. If knockdown was added light pilots would be even more sure to not touch anyone. Its totally easy for them to not touch anyone seeing as they're fast enough that you can't just tackle them.

Besides all of this, the light pilots who are currently just leg humping against assault mechs aren't even using the good tactic, which is to keep their light mech behind the enemy's torso though accelerating and decelerating just right while at somewhat close ranges (25-50m or so). This works well on 100 ton mechs in bad positions that are too open or isolated.

[JediPanther]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 08:01 AM, said:

>light op domination in MWO

This is generally a bad idea since most people shoot you in the front, not the back. If you're running 15 armor in the back, then I have heavies that can out tank your assaults frontally.

If you're referring to lights ruling in domination mode i'm not seeing it happen at all in qp. In a light i just barly get into the circle trying to find any cover at all. Then I sit and wait for the rest of the team to waddle their butts to the edge of the p stain so they can snipe and atm/lrm whilst I try from being sniped. Once a few are in their happy safe spot I ditch that free-light-mech-kill zone going to the rear to see if enemy lights are on the flank.

Lights rarely dominate any mode in qp in mwo. Conquest we sit being easy sniper prey trying to turn squares blue then it's quite normal to be the last alive running about waiting for the cap war of points to hit 750. that's if the team didn't get rolled because you can still just kill the enemy team if you focus fire. Point wise it's pretty easy to turn it around until the counter hits 600 to your team's 400-500.

Assault it's considered bad form to just play the objective in qp as people generally want to fight. i find not many 'base rush' happens in that mode. Most often in my light I'll run back and see what is on base throwing up a uav. Again a fairly common light tactic in assault is to 'buzz-the-base' causing the warning of cap to draw off enemy mechs in the hope your team can out number them on the front for an easy win.

Ss for heavies able to out damage an assault's ct or whatever I've seen 40 to 101 alpha strikes on clan heavies and mediums. I've even put 60 laser alpha on the jenner 2c.So in general assault should be mostly front armored but still retain enough back armor to survive a light or fast medium's alpha strike. Do know that some light mechs are build to outright cripple or kill an assault in 2-3 alphas such as the srm 4 and srm 6 Oxide build that was common when Direwolves first came out hence the name of that build as 'the harpoon' for dire whale hunting.

[Nightbird]

Here's a Cheeta match I had 5 minutes ago, took a screen for you.

[K O Z A K]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 08:14 AM, said:

Gauss rifles already generated heat though, and gauss rifles alone generate no ghost heat, they only do that when you fire a PPC with them, so its likely that they just linked gauss heat into PPC heat so it effectively is like firing 3 PPCs through ghost heat if you fire 2 gauss and 1 PPC.

yes, and the reason you can't fire 3 gauss rifles to generate ghost heat right now is because they made it impossible to shoot more than 2. I didn't realize gr had 1 heat, it's so negligible I never noticed it

I'm sure they could do it, like give it same ghost heat as small lasers or something when more than 6 are used, either way it was just a silly suggestion, I just find it's funny they spend the last few years battling boating of weapons, and then release a 12mg + lasers light. For 20 tons it has a crazy amount of firepower, and if the enemy doesn't address it quickly these things can easily rip the enemy team apart with dps. I don't know any other lights right now that do as well as consistently in QP (despite the fact this is the lightest light), though I doubt it would do as well in upper level of play

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

JediPanther, on 05 April 2018 - 08:20 AM, said:

If you're referring to lights ruling in domination mode i'm not seeing it happen at all in qp. In a light i just barly get into the circle trying to find any cover at all. Then I sit and wait for the rest of the team to waddle their butts to the edge of the p stain so they can snipe and atm/lrm whilst I try from being sniped. Once a few are in their happy safe spot I ditch that free-light-mech-kill zone going to the rear to see if enemy lights are on the flank.

Lights rarely dominate any mode in qp in mwo. Conquest we sit being easy sniper prey trying to turn squares blue then it's quite normal to be the last alive running about waiting for the cap war of points to hit 750. that's if the team didn't get rolled because you can still just kill the enemy team if you focus fire. Point wise it's pretty easy to turn it around until the counter hits 600 to your team's 400-500.

Assault it's considered bad form to just play the objective in qp as people generally want to fight. i find not many 'base rush' happens in that mode. Most often in my light I'll run back and see what is on base throwing up a uav. Again a fairly common light tactic in assault is to 'buzz-the-base' causing the warning of cap to draw off enemy mechs in the hope your team can out number them on the front for an easy win.

Ss for heavies able to out damage an assault's ct or whatever I've seen 40 to 101 alpha strikes on clan heavies and mediums. I've even put 60 laser alpha on the jenner 2c.So in general assault should be mostly front armored but still retain enough back armor to survive a light or fast medium's alpha strike. Do know that some light mechs are build to outright cripple or kill an assault in 2-3 alphas such as the srm 4 and srm 6 Oxide build that was common when Direwolves first came out hence the name of that build as 'the harpoon' for dire whale hunting.

You seem to have misread every single bit of my post.

My first part with the >'s was me listing some of the points of the person I quoted so that I could write up a response focusing on those. I don't understand where your point about the assaults and base rushing fits into this, that's just a given. Lastly, I said out tank, not out damage, meaning that I have heavy mechs that are more frontally armored than your assaults. If you're running back armor as high as 30-36 points to survive a light's alpha strike then I can see why you consider yourself the worst assault pilot in the game, you're pretty much playing a paper bag in terms of frontal armor at that point.

[Koniving]

I'm not experiencing these kinds of things.

Instead I just see dead fish flopping out of water being so cute with their guns.

Ever seen what happens to a fish when his ammo explodes?
One of these days I'll be lucky to catch it on film, its spectacular. Nail a backshot (these guys have like zero armor on the back) with a pair of LBX-5 or quad LBX-2. Multiple armor penetrations.
Two seconds later... net a kill.

[Dimento Graven]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

I still don't see how knock down will actually help you with these lights though. Even in the situation you described the light never touched anyone. If knockdown was added light pilots would be even more sure to not touch anyone. Its totally easy for them to not touch anyone seeing as they're fast enough that you can't just tackle them.

That's the thing, I've dropped with and against Yoki too, and I've seen HIM make the same move to the inside and behind when fighting a larger 'mech, you move inside, towards, the oponent to get under his guns, and then you try and move behind where the light armor is at. Invariably, the enemy pilot is also moving his 'mech and damn near every time there's at least ONE collision where there'd be a chance of the lighter 'mech being knocked down.

Does he collide as often as lesser skilled pilots, probably not, BUT, he still does, and in my opinion it's 'game breaking' that there is no method to be able to target/fire behind your 'mech as stated in the original table top and many of the previous iterations of the video game.

It's game breaking that there's no means of physical attack in this game.

And it's bitter vindictive bullshite that seismic is at the very goddamned bottom of the sensor tree.

Quote

Besides all of this, the light pilots who are currently just leg humping against assault mechs aren't even using the good tactic, which is to keep their light mech behind the enemy's torso though accelerating and decelerating just right while at somewhat close ranges (25-50m or so)...

Yet that is the tactic the majority of light pilots utilize and therefore, should we not add features to the game that encourage better game play?

[M Jordanus Sicarius]

If I ever see a Piranha in a game, I will immediately call it out and try to get my team to kill it before it can do any serious damage. Am literally more scared of them than any other mech.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 08:30 AM, said:

Yet that is the tactic the majority of light pilots utilize and therefore, should we not add features to the game that encourage better game play?

If we're adding in mechanics that punish bad play then buffing assault mechs so that they auto shoot things that are behind them while players who actually made good plays and flanked get shot then we aren't adding mechanics that punish bad play.

[Nightbird]

Sure, let's add knock down, and then also get rid of the 100% armor and structure buffs assaults receive in MWO, to punish assaults for letting themselves get shot in the back in the first place. Most lights will be able to 1 alpha you through the CT

[Dimento Graven]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

If we're adding in mechanics that punish bad play then buffing assault mechs so that they auto shoot things that are behind them while players who actually made good plays and flanked get shot then we aren't adding mechanics that punish bad play.

It's a feature that has been available throughout the histore of BattleTech.

PGI left it out because, <tear drop rolling down cheek>Programming is hard.

The rear firing automated weapons wouldn't just benefit assaults, ANY pilot willing to trade weight/slots, and risk heat generation/additional weapon/ammo explosions, for them could utilize this.

Knock downs, also a feature of BattleTech since day one, would seem to be in my opinion at least, a damned REQUIREMENT of Solaris game play, and without it Solaris will quickly become boring 1v1, 2v2 alpha-fests...

This game has far to few 'true' BattleTech features as is, excluding some because you think they "encourages bad play of assaults" is silly.

Nightbird, on 05 April 2018 - 08:48 AM, said:

Sure, let's add knock down, and then also get rid of the 100% armor and structure buffs assaults receive in MWO, to punish assaults for letting themselves get shot in the back in the first place. Most lights will be able to 1 alpha you through the CT

Hey, I'm game for getting rid of ALL armor and structure quirks that ALL 'mechs receive, INCLUDING LIGHTS, if it means we'll have more features.

[Nightbird]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 08:51 AM, said:

Hey, I'm game for getting rid of ALL armor and structure quirks that ALL 'mechs receive, INCLUDING LIGHTS, if it means we'll have more features.

Not just quirks, but also cut all armor and structure values to 50%, since MWO inflated them

[Jackal Noble]

Nightbird, on 05 April 2018 - 08:22 AM, said:

Here's a Cheeta match I had 5 minutes ago, took a screen for you.

I don't recognize any of those names. what region do you drop?

[Dimento Graven]

Nightbird, on 05 April 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

Not just quirks, but also cut all armor and structure values to 50%, since MWO inflated them

I totally agree with that. I'm willing to give it up IF it results in us having MORE options in this game, edit: and again, if ALL 'mechs, INCLUDING LIGHTS, receive the same treatment.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 05 April 2018 - 09:01 AM.