333 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

FupDup, on 05 April 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:

That's a stupid comparison. Battlemech Machine Guns weigh 500 kilograms on the IS side and 250 kilos for Clans. These guns are as heavy as the car you drive to work in the morning.

9mm pistols vary in weight but the Beretta for example is only 970 grams (just below 1 kilo).

It's an apt comparison, sorry if you don't like being compared to a VW... Would comparing you to a mini-cooper make it any more acceptable?

Xiphias, on 05 April 2018 - 09:40 AM, said:

Indeed. I Consider myself pretty good in light mechs and I readily admit that Krivvan is better than me.

Seismic is a giant crutch for situational awareness and I'm glad that it has a significant cost associated with taking it instead of just being everyone's go to module to take. Personally, I think that if a light is able to use superior speed to sneak around behind someone unnoticed that they should be rewarded for that instead of just being detected by seismic for no effort.

Um, without seismic, just how are we supposed to be 'situationally aware' of the 180+ degrees of BEDHIND we can't see?!?!

Don't be an arrogant ****** about it...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 05 April 2018 - 09:42 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

Disagree.

I find ridiculous that effectively a VW with a bunch of 9 millimeter pistols are supposedly capable of driving up behind and M1 tank and nearly instantaneously blowing it to crap...

OH MAN, ITS THIS ARGUMENT AGAIN.


k, buddy, I don't even have anything else left to say, I had a good laugh.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Thing is, the lights and mediums on your team have to support their fatties by chasing away enemy lights. If they dont do it, they deserve to lose. Dying early may not be fatties fault, but you either win as a team or lose as a team.

[GBxGhostRyder]

Krivvan, on 05 April 2018 - 09:27 AM, said:

That all said, the main counter to the Piranha is hitting it: https://clips.twitch...eCattleOSkomodo


The fact that heavier mechs aren't just outright better mechs is one of the biggest factors that improves the gameplay of MWO compared to previous MW titles.

This is just a false stamen in past MechWarrior games heavy's were not the best mechs in the game or most assaults it was medium mechs that were the best overall why? because they played in packs the same as light did they killed heavy's and assaults playing together mostly in league games.

Open fun games well anyone could win by luck mostly and skill.MWO is a weird mech game compared to past MechWarrior and battletech games . its so unbalanced and repetitive it really except for the great mech designs and great map designs sucks.
Heck in MW$ we had 20+ game modes and 500 maps and that's not even adding in mission play and Co-op

Edited by GBxGhostRyder, 05 April 2018 - 09:44 AM.

[FupDup]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

It's an apt comparison, sorry if you don't like being compared to a VW... Would comparing you to a mini-cooper make it any more acceptable?

No, because it would still be based on the flawed premise "little thing can't hurt big thing." A random little human with a rocket launcher or landmine can do serious damage to most vehicles despite those vehicles being thousands of times heavier than the human.

In comparison, the largest mechs in the game are only 5x the weight of the smallest mechs. The degree of size difference in your comparisons is dramatically larger than the size differences in MWO.

Edited by FupDup, 05 April 2018 - 09:45 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Nema Nabojiv, on 05 April 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

Thing is, the lights and mediums on your team have to support their fatties by chasing away enemy lights. If they dont do it, they deserve to lose. Dying early may not be fatties fault, but you either win as a team or lose as a team.

Um yeah, it's an EXTREMELY RARE case in QP (even in grouped QP) that ANYONE 'stays behind' with the slower 'mechs, everyone is on a mad rush to get to the front and of course the slower 'mechs are then yelled at for 'hiding in the back'...

[Xiphias]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

Um, without seismic, just how are we supposed to be 'situationally aware' of the 180+ degrees of BEDHIND we can't see?!?!

Don't be an arrogant ****** about it...

You aren't supposed to magically have 360 degrees of situational awareness. You have to choose where you are looking and pay attention to your surroundings. Lights start in front of you across the map. To get behind you a light has to maneuver through areas that you can potentially see it. You know lights aren't behind you through positioning and through checking the areas that they have to move to get behind you.

Seismic is just an easy way to catch mechs sneaking around you. It takes no skill to use other than looking at your radar map. Blindspots are something that should be countered through piloting and positioning, not by having an in game wall hack that shows you when you're about to get backstabbed. If a light gets behind you it means you've already made mistakes.

[Dimento Graven]

FupDup, on 05 April 2018 - 09:44 AM, said:

No, because it would still be based on the flawed premise "little thing can't hurt big thing." A random little human with a rocket launcher or landmine can do serious damage to most vehicles despite those vehicles being thousands of times heavier than the human.

In comparison, the largest mechs in the game are only 5x the weight of the smallest mechs. The degree of size difference in your comparisons is dramatically larger than the size differences in MWO.

Sure, but a lone human with a rocket launcher isn't going to be moving at 150+ kph, and IF he doesn't get lucky with his RPG and is seen, doesn't have the protection of craptastic HSR, bad hit boxes, or doubled armor to protect him from being killed from one hit of the least powerful weapon available.

Yes it, you're absolutely right, it CAN happen, BUT IT SURE AS HECK ISN'T AS EASY OR COMMON AS MWO IS ALLOWING IT TO BE...

[Nightbird]

People that use history seldom understand it.

For example, specialized tank killers were only 10-20% the weight of they heavy tanks they prey on.

[naterist]

All these people tryin to brainstorm reasons to justify pirahnas higher than average scores.

Newbs in here be like "maybe god intervened, your proof doesnt mean anything" lol. Just trying to delay pgis inevitable nerf.

[Xiphias]

Nema Nabojiv, on 05 April 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

Thing is, the lights and mediums on your team have to support their fatties by chasing away enemy lights. If they dont do it, they deserve to lose. Dying early may not be fatties fault, but you either win as a team or lose as a team.

It's actually not the job of lights to chase other lights around. Lights are usually better served getting behind heavier targets and taking them out quickly where their armor is weak. Lights usually don't have sufficient weapons to kill other lights quickly and they waste time in trying to do so. Heavies and mediums are the best mechs to counter lights because they have the firepower to put them down quickly and still have enough agility to track them ea

[Lethe Wyvern]

Nightbird, on 05 April 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

People that use history seldom understand it.

For example, specialized tank killers were only 10-20% the weight of they heavy tanks they prey on.

Waddaminute... Those killers had bigger guns than tanks they prey on... So we demand big guns to our beloved lights, right?

[Throe]

Mortalcoil, on 05 April 2018 - 05:14 AM, said:

Here's the thing. I was the first to die on my team in an assault. The instant I heard the plinking machine gun sound I started turning around. I was dead in approximately 1 second, before I was even half finished turning around. How does one GIT GUD, or have strategy of any sort when you can be insta gibbed by a 20 ton mech?

Step 1) Don't bring Molassassaults to Quick Play unless you're *very, very* good with Assaults.
Step 2) Maintain situational awareness. Don't let a Piranha get behind you unnoticed in the first place(this is true of most Lights anyway).
Step 3) Don't leave only 2 or 3 armor on your rear side torsos. Keep 9 to 11 armor on rear side torsos, and 11-16 on rear center.
Step 4) Don't run IS XL engines, and then get upset when you are destroyed in short order.

[Dimento Graven]

Xiphias, on 05 April 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

You aren't supposed to magically have 360 degrees of situational awareness. You have to choose where you are looking and pay attention to your surroundings.

"I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs" - Bill Shakespear

Quote

Lights start in front of you across the map. To get behind you a light has to maneuver through areas that you can potentially see it.

You know lights aren't behind you through positioning and through checking the areas that they have to move to get behind you.

Sometimes. On most maps, that's actually untrue and lights CAN maneuver behind you behing 100% unseen.

You can't see through terrain or buildings, or dense trees.

And for those areas where it is possible to see those locations you have to actually be able to get there BEFORE the lights have already moved through it and back into dense cover, not always and more likely RARELY possible depending on the 'mech.

Quote

Seismic is just an easy way to catch mechs sneaking around you. It takes no skill to use other than looking at your radar map. Blindspots are something that should be countered through piloting and positioning, not by having an in game wall hack that shows you when you're about to get backstabbed. If a light gets behind you it means you've already made mistakes.

Ahh, now I get it, you're a bitter ******* that doesn't want to acknowledge that seismic is just a compromise of PGI not implementing MAD, magnetic anomolly detection. If a player isn't spending 100% of his time ignoring everything else and looking just for you, he's unskilled and needs to 'git gud'.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Xiphias, on 05 April 2018 - 09:52 AM, said:

It's actually not the job of lights to chase other lights around. Lights are usually better served getting behind heavier targets and taking them out quickly where their armor is weak. Lights usually don't have sufficient weapons to kill other lights quickly and they waste time in trying to do so. Heavies and mediums are the best mechs to counter lights because they have the firepower to put them down quickly and still have enough agility to track them ea

There are different lights and mediums, but whatever floats your boat. My point is, rock-paper-scissors balance is real and if your scissors dont do their job you lose even though it is not your fault.

[Xiphias]

Dimento Graven, on 05 April 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

Sometimes. On most maps, that's actually untrue and lights CAN maneuver behind you behing 100% unseen.

Absolutely, lights can manuever to get behind you based on where you move. Guess what if you run straight for the center of the map that's a choice the team is making.

Quote

You can't see through terrain or buildings, or dense trees.

Yes, and?

Quote

And for those areas where it is possible to see those locations you have to actually be able to get there BEFORE the lights have already moved through it and back into dense cover, not always and more likely RARELY possible depending on the 'mech.

Okay, so the light has made an effort to move to a position it can get behind you. Now you know what those locations are and you also know the locations the lights can't be (because you could see them if they were). Now you can check those locations periodically to make sure you aren't about to get backstabbed. I don't see the problem with this. If a light is adjusting its movement to avoid being seen why can't you adjust yours to avoid getting backstabbed?

What is it you want? The incursion mode radar sweep so that you can just see where all mechs are at all times and just focus on shooting what's in front of you all the time? I think having the ability to flank and having to make choices adds a lot of depth to the game. There are ways to prevent lights from getting behind you or detecting them if they do, even without seismic. Seismic just makes it easier. What you are complaining about is having to invest skill points to get an extremely powerful ability.

Quote

Ahh, now I get it, you're a bitter ******* that doesn't want to acknowledge that seismic is just a compromise of PGI not implementing MAD, magnetic anomolly detection. If a player isn't spending 100% of his time ignoring everything else and looking just for you, he's unskilled and needs to 'git gud'.

I disliked the introduction of seismic, it was totally broken when first added to the game (400m while moving or something). Even after nerfs it was still taken with radar dep as the best module by a long shot. Where it stands now I'm okay with it. If you want the benefits you have to invest significantly in the sensor tree. I think that's totally fair. You just shouldn't get that kind of advantage for little to no cost.

[Throe]

Xiphias, on 05 April 2018 - 09:52 AM, said:

It's actually not the job of lights to chase other lights around. Lights are usually better served getting behind heavier targets and taking them out quickly where their armor is weak. Lights usually don't have sufficient weapons to kill other lights quickly and they waste time in trying to do so. Heavies and mediums are the best mechs to counter lights because they have the firepower to put them down quickly and still have enough agility to track them ea

All this talk of jobs. You're not really wrong, and yet Nema Nabojiv is still correct in that you win as a team or lose as a team. Lights can be very effective at chasing away other Lights, and if your team's Assaults are getting harassed by a fast Light the *only* thing that can *chase* it away is another fast Light. The best Mediums can hope to do is kill it while it's there, and you won't have a very large window to do so against "zoom and boom" Lights.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Lethe Wyvern, on 05 April 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

Waddaminute... Those killers had bigger guns than tanks they prey on... So we demand big guns to our beloved lights, right?

Due to the way armor in the battletech universe works, you don't actually want bigger guns. The most optimal approach actually is machine guns. Battletech armor is ablative, meaning it just chips off after each hit rather than being penetrated like modern day armor. This means that a light mech with 12 MGs such as the piranha wears away armor very quick. For example, 12 MGs in tabletop would do 24 damage in one shot while an AC20 only would deal 20.

[HGAK47]

lol the fattiemechs starting to realise that tonnage does not necessarily equal performance.

You do realise that you can probably single alpha most ST`s off an IS light mech and insta gib them, Clans do have the XL advantage in that regard but really, lights are heavily skill dependant with a mix of luck. (As in my humble opinion are the really heavy Assaults funnily enough)

Edited by HGAK47, 05 April 2018 - 10:09 AM.

[Xiphias]

Nema Nabojiv, on 05 April 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

There are different lights and mediums, but whatever floats your boat. My point is, rock-paper-scissors balance is real and if your scissors dont do their job you lose even though it is not your fault.

Sure, but in general if you have lights trying to kill assaults and lights trying to kill other lights the team that is killing the assaults will gain the advantage. A group of lights can usually kill an assault (from behind) faster than they can kill a light mech. An assault mech does more damage to the enemy team than a light does. You end up killing the light, but being down in the overall fight.

This is primarily for fast lights (slower lights play more like mediums). I agree with your overall point. Lights generally are good at countering assaults and they should be. If assaults were the best at everything the game wouldn't be balanced.