333 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

Dee Eight, on 06 April 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

by people he means himself...

Oh teehee, someone trying to get in a 'subtle insult'... Oh such a wit.

To bad he's wrong...

[Nightbird]

I run my Jaeger with XL, just twist, it spreads damage fine. It's fire support, bring more weapons and ammo.

[Krivvan]

GBxGhostRyder, on 06 April 2018 - 07:30 AM, said:

But lets take a look at the top 20 light pilots in MWO are there stats normal? Heck NO ? You have to ask yourself are these few players just gifted pilots or are they exploiting the game in some way to achieve 1000-2000 damage per match?

The top 20 Light pilots in MWO have lower stats than the top 20 Assault and Heavy pilots.

[Asym]

If this thread continues, I'm filing a "claim", so I can mine the salt being produced.

I loved the Mini-Cooper to M1 comparison... Since I've driven both and the M1 is actually more dangerous to drive than the MC.... At about 12 psi the M1 is terrible on anything slippery.......

On this topic, be alone = die; act alone = die; fight alone = die.....for God's sake, listen to what the pundit's have to advise....even I, a grand super spud potato with a mashed award designation have figured that out: life's not fair and this is a game, get use to it or take a break, because what ever you perceive as un-fair will not be fixed....

[Novakaine]

It's not the Piranha in itself, nor is the 12 mg's it can boat.
It's the nutbustin crouch huggin manuver they can pull, without virtually any consequence.
As for that matter many light mechs.
If we had knock down back lights would not be that much of an issue.
Wonder what would happen, if I rode my mountain bike while holding my AR into the front of a Abrams tank?
One dead Novakaine I can tell you that.

Edited by Novakaine, 06 April 2018 - 10:44 AM.

[Jman5]

Krivvan, on 06 April 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

The top 20 Light pilots in MWO have lower stats than the top 20 Assault and Heavy pilots.

And this is despite the fact that there are matchscore rewards that assaults and heavies are ineligible for.

[Nightbird]

Novakaine, on 06 April 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

It's not the Piranha in itself, nor is the 12 mg's it can boat.
It's the nutbustin crouch huggin manuver they can pull, without virtually any consequence.
As for that matter many light mechs.
If we had knock down back lights would not be that much of an issue.
Wonder what would happen, if I rode my mountain bike while holding my AR into the front of a Abrams tank?
One dead Novakaine I can tell you that.

Yep.. more pitch for mechs is the quick an easy solution, proper mech scaling would also fix this.

[Judah Malganis]

Is it always that lights are OP, or is it a combination of good lights and timidity on the part of a lot of other people? I'll give you an example. I was in my Timby Prime yesterday. 2x ATM12, 4xHMLs... loads of fun. Anyways, were in Canyon on Skirmish. One of our guys kinda strayed off the group a bit and got hit up by 2 SRM Commandos. I went to help but he died, and they turned their attention to me. I was able to drag them back to our team, at a spot where I was within 80-100m and within perfect view of a King Crab and a Wolverine. I announced the location and called for help. It's 3v2 so we should be able to at least chase them off, if not kill them both, although I would have probably died anyways if we pushed for kills. But no, the Wolverine saw me getting spanked and JJ'd his way over the nearest canyon wall and the Crabby Patty just turned corner and ran away. Not one shot fired by either. Obviously 4xHMLs are not very good v 2 lights running in circles so I died, but it wasn't slow. The kill took like 30-40 seconds. They could have helped, but chose to run away instead. Guess what team won the match.

Anyways, in QP, I've noticed a pattern lately; maybe you will agree. Alpha lance gets about half the kills and out of the remaining 8 mechs, at least 3 struggle to break 200 dmg.... win or lose the match, both teams. It's been a really consistent finding for me in the last month or so, and the lights are not always MG madness mechs. Of course some of it is mechs, builds and player skill, but this is a team game. Willingness to fight is part of equation as well, and a group with lots of it will win the match 80% of the time. I'm under the impression that with lights being as hard to play as they are, the pilots are a bit more experienced on average, thus more aggressive, and are also willing to work together as a team to backstab enemies or vulture kills after other teammates have stripped enemies. On the other hand, some players pick heavies and assaults for the perceived safety blanket of extra armor and then don't play well with others. They either isolate themselves or will let teammates become isolated by not assisting in a fight they could contribute something to out of fear of getting targeted, instead waiting for that perfect moment to fire, and that moment never comes, so they either get swarmed by lights and killed early, or they are the last to die when they get rolled by whatever the enemy team has left. Either way, they die.

Sorry about the rant. I guess my point is that although I'm all for balance, even if you nerf every weapon in the game down to the ground, practiced players will roll over casuals, and casuals will get rolled hard regardless. Teamwork, communication and aggression overcome any limitations that chassis, loadout or pilot skill might put on the table, and there is no nerf bat that hits hard enough to change that. I'd hang my vote on adding some agility to larger mechs to allow those who are willing to fight a bit more flexibility, but I bet that many will just choose to hide away from the battle anyways, no matter what.

Edited by Judah Malganis, 08 April 2018 - 11:07 AM.

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Mystere, on 06 April 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

Statements like this is why people are not finding you credible.

12 MGs is a stock BT load out and described aptly as:

The Piranha's main threat is its twelve Series XII Rotary Machine Guns. These are a serious threat to any foe on such a speedy 'Mech, especially if a Star of Piranhas operate in a pack, and such a large array allows the 'Mech to chew through an opponent's rear armor almost instantly.

(emphasis mine)

Let me repeat just in case that did not sink in:

such a large array allows the 'Mech to chew through an opponent's rear armor almost instantly.

Thus, it is working as intended.

And this is TT, which usually has way more than single digit back armor on most mechs.

[mogs01gt]

Perfect example why so many players have left this game. Too many people supporting poor mechanics in a battletech based game. Lights should never be this effective in a death match based game system. This wouldnt be an issue with mechs were scaled correctly and had proper agility.

[Krivvan]

mogs01gt, on 06 April 2018 - 12:12 PM, said:

Perfect example why so many players have left this game. Too many people supporting poor mechanics in a battletech based game. Lights should never be this effective in a death match based game system. This wouldnt be an issue with mechs were scaled correctly and had proper agility.

All the data shows Lights generally slightly underperform compared to Mediums, Heavies, and Assaults.

In a deathmatch based game system, you want Lights, Mediums, Heavies, and Assaults to perform as closely as possible. You do not want any of the classes performing significantly better than any of the others. To this end, the way Lights perform now with or without the Piranha (which the data suggests didn't end up impacting Light class performance overall much) is fine.

Edited by Krivvan, 06 April 2018 - 12:41 PM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

mogs01gt, on 06 April 2018 - 12:12 PM, said:

Perfect example why so many players have left this game. Too many people supporting poor mechanics in a battletech based game. Lights should never be this effective in a death match based game system. This wouldnt be an issue with mechs were scaled correctly and had proper agility.

Statistically lights underperform and are heavily underplayed.

So explain again why the lowest-powered and least-played class is so broken that it bears responsibility for people quitting.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Anyone have a video of how YokiLin pulls off these matches? He must be amazing.

Remember PGI business model is to release OP mechs then nerf them the day they are available for MC. So expect machine guns to become tier 5 weapons in a few months.

[Nightbird]

Everyone has AMAZING matchs once in a while, it's how the mech performs on average that matters more. Cherry picking results don't prove any points. If Piranha outperform the Cheeta, across all matches played, fine, that's justification for a nerf.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

GBxGhostRyder, on 06 April 2018 - 07:48 AM, said:

ROFL after 5 years of playing and watching players in every aspect of MWO gameplay from Comp level to new players I can say this.

(Good players don't need exploits or a crutch to have fun in MWO and those that do to attain abnormal damage or kills need to be banned.) So as to not grief or aggravate those good players still hanging on to what fun MWO has left to offer them.

"Ban good players as to not offend the bad players" Why don't we just ban all bad players to not offend the good and average players? Alternatively why don't we just fix the darn matchmaking system so we can go about our day without seeing eachother.

Dimento Graven, on 06 April 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

Ok, so those things were regularly killing 3 to 5 tanks in under 5 minutes?

And were able to continue fighting even after being faced and hit with full salvos from multiple tanks?

Guess you win...

Generally they killed a tank in one shot and didn't get shot. Not to mention that in this game lights hit with a full salvo from even a single assault mech is dead twice over, so your second part there is a bit off. Guess we'll take the win.

[Krivvan]

MechWarrior5152251, on 06 April 2018 - 12:51 PM, said:

Anyone have a video of how YokiLin pulls off these matches? He must be amazing.

These kinds of 800 to 1000+ damage games in Lights aren't actually all that special. It just boils down to constant aggression and good enough awareness that you can get away with the constant aggression and get out before anything hits you.

In solo queue, with any Light ranging from a Jenner to an Urbanmech to a Piranha (or any non-light mech), with good fundamentals you can expect constant 800+ and several 1000+ matches a night.

Here's a 1029 damage match I did in an Urbanmech: https://www.twitch.t...581?t=03h51m12s

Here's a match of Proton doing 1283 in a Jenner-F: https://www.twitch.t...790?t=02h55m59s

And to compare, here's a 1023 in the Piranha: https://www.twitch.t...623?t=02h29m13s

Nothing out of the ordinary is happening in those matches. Just solid fundamentals, aggression, and good poke/engagement picks. These aren't 1 in a 100 matches and they are hardly limited to Piranhas. They're just games I randomly picked out from the past few days (except the Piranha one, I haven't played a Piranha in solo queue in a long time). Others have posted far better games.

You'll also note that those high damage games don't depend on ambushing Assault rears or involve any engagement where an Assault wouldn't be able to shoot back. The engagements are just picked in moments where the Assault isn't able to pay attention to you, and if all goes well the Assault won't even know you were the one that killed them.

Yoki is an extremely aggressive Light, and he's good at being aggressive and it serves him well. Although I'd also say he's too aggressive and likely would have to adjust quite a bit if he were to play organized comp matches in a tournament, but I don't think he's interesting in that.

Edited by Krivvan, 06 April 2018 - 01:22 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Novakaine, on 06 April 2018 - 06:38 AM, said:

Don't sweat it Sam, ya know it's gonna be the "usual suspects" when it come to crap light this.

...you mean LRM topics?

[K O Z A K]

it does seem like I see piranhas hit 1k much more often than other lights, maybe it's due to them being more popular these days

[GBxGhostRyder]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 06 April 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

"Ban good players as to not offend the bad players" Why don't we just ban all bad players to not offend the good and average players? Alternatively why don't we just fix the darn matchmaking system so we can go about our day without seeing eachother.



Generally they killed a tank in one shot and didn't get shot. Not to mention that in this game lights hit with a full salvo from even a single assault mech is dead twice over, so your second part there is a bit off. Guess we'll take the win.

Don't think your all cute twisting my comments around you know dang well groups of players exploit 3rd party software to grief normal good players in Qp-QP group plaf and FP and its killing this game and PGI lets them getaway with this even though hundreds of fraps and screens and emails have been sent in to them.

And I have been on TS3 played with these players and have seen first hand what they can do with exploited 3rd party software in MWO and I still say a normal good player playing lights is not the problem most cannot even get 500 damage and 1 kill which is not breaking the game and you know it.

These players play lights to assaults and exploit the game in all classes and you know a good or even above average player does not harm the game or grief players its the ones that have 3rd party software that are doing the damage to MWO and the player base.

[K O Z A K]

GBxGhostRyder, on 06 April 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

Don't think your all cute twisting my comments around you know dang well groups of players exploit 3rd party software to grief normal good players in Qp-QP group plaf and FP and its killing this game and PGI lets them getaway with this even though hundreds of fraps and screens and emails have been sent in to them.

And I have been on TS3 played with these players and have seen first hand what they can do with exploited 3rd party software in MWO and I still say a normal good player playing lights is not the problem most cannot even get 500 damage and 1 kill which is not breaking the game and you know it.

These players play lights to assaults and exploit the game in all classes and you know a good or even above average player does not harm the game or grief players its the ones that have 3rd party software that are doing the damage to MWO and the player base.

those damn autocad haxors