333 replies to this topic

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

nah.. lights are totally OP and should get nerfed into the ground.

I mean.. just look at the lights-queque - it's 9-13% at the time of typing, and that is clearly too much.
once lights are at 0-3% (again..), we consider them fine.
*rolls eyes*

to everybody doing the same old "lights op, pls nerf"-thing; go out there IN A LIGHT. drop them a few games instead of your assault and see just how easymode the little buggers are.

again: I don't like to get my *** handed by a backstabbing light, either. but if it happens, I think about what -I- did wrong and ususally I find something. you otoh just blame the clearly OP-lights.

having a great game (in terms of numbers) in -any- light is at least 50% work done by the reds themselves.
ah.. enough. they don't want to improve anyway.. *fighting windmills*

*le sigh*

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 07 April 2018 - 04:23 AM.

[Jman5]

Jounin Astray, on 06 April 2018 - 11:17 PM, said:

I'm waiting on some semblance of a little melee, a mech-kick, something that does physical proximity damage to deal with these little annoyances that weigh 30 tons or less than can just bury themselves beneath your line of sight and just 5-shot-crit you to death.

I did some 1v1s against a very good pilot last night who was playing Piranhas. I think in many ways the machine guns and the hardpoints are a bit of a red herring. It matters, but what really made the fight difficult was that he was able to get in real close under your guns and stay there.

Tonning down to a smaller, weaker mech, I actually did much much better.

I definitely think there should be some sort of "kick" action if a smaller mech is in front of and underneath you. Doesn't have to do any damage, but it should be a knock back attack that also zeroes his throttle for half a second.

Edited by Jman5, 07 April 2018 - 04:35 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

So, just had something interesting. There are essentially three things that take the blame for people dying to lights: bad awareness, bad builds, and bad aim/maneuvering/choices.

Here's a match of Escort I just had where the enemy team had all the radar beacons on their side of the map, essentially meaning that if I ever got within ~400m of their backline they'd have perfect knowledge of my location, build, and heading. Functionally that should remove bad awareness from the equation. Guess how that went?



First kill was a PXH who decided to fight me solo, behind cover from their LRMs, when he already had an open CT. No guesses how that went for him. Second kill was an ACW boating nothing but cLRM5s. I facehugged to shield from their other lurmboats and chewed his legs off. Third kill was a SDR that tried to out-DPS me while standing still in a location covered from their LRM support. Fourth 'mech I ran away from was a LRMboat ZEU that couldn't aim worth **** with his backup lasers.

So two bad builds, three bad decisions to engage me alone and out of support range. And yet, by the end of the match when I was running from the ZEU, I'd lost a ST, my CT and LL were both cherry-red structure one unfortunate bump away from destruction, and I only survived because my team had been cleaning house already.

That seems to affirm what's already been observed: people dying quickly to PIRs is a result of a combination of bad awareness, builds, and choices. PIRs getting 1k+ damage matches is a combination of that and a team which is good enough to open up a bunch of 'mechs but not good enough to kill them outright, or a sufficient population of enemy spuds that it can be farmed on ST backstabs.

[Nightbird]

At the end of the nerfs, nothing will change. Lights will still do 1000+ damage and a bazillion kills, potatoes will still turn into fries. The only thing that changes is, another style of playing the game disappears like PPC/Gauss last year.

[Wil McCullough]

ermls and janner op guys.

need narf.

no "lmgs too op" and "too small" excuses to use here.

how now brown cow?

Edited by Wil McCullough, 07 April 2018 - 10:04 AM.

[Jounin Astray]

Wil McCullough, on 07 April 2018 - 01:03 AM, said:

Assaults ARE scary. I had no qualms about how scary i am when i'm in the seat of my madiic. And because i'm frequently on the front line, i'm typically unafraid of lights ninja buttsecking me even while running only 6 back armor. Granted i haven't played in ages, but i've never been afraid of lights in my assault. Mainly because i always made myself an extremely unappetizing target. It's a side effect of being in front as opposed to cowering in the rear. Lights don't wanna get frisky with an enemy assault when he has six teammates 100m behind him.

Also, i generally know how to fend them off. Twist with both your legs and torso guys. It's not rocket science. It only takes one good alpha to cripple or destroy a light outright. Twist, wait for the shot and let fly.

That simple torso twist sounds amazing in text, but then when you actually perform this and fire, they usually tank whatever you've thrown at them and just hug you until you die. I've had a piranha tank 2ERPPCs combined with dual gauss shots and just run right underneath me, because its great and not rocket science at all until you factor in lag and latency. Looks like I hit him, the screen said I hit him, but his screen dictated that either he was ahead of the shots, or the little guy just didn't care that he was being hit. Its good stuff, really.


In order to properly grasp the strife, I invite you to hop back into the cockpit and take an Assault for a spin a couple times. I'm sure you'll realize what people are talking about.

Jman5, on 07 April 2018 - 04:29 AM, said:

I did some 1v1s against a very good pilot last night who was playing Piranhas. I think in many ways the machine guns and the hardpoints are a bit of a red herring. It matters, but what really made the fight difficult was that he was able to get in real close under your guns and stay there.

Tonning down to a smaller, weaker mech, I actually did much much better.

I definitely think there should be some sort of "kick" action if a smaller mech is in front of and underneath you. Doesn't have to do any damage, but it should be a knock back attack that also zeroes his throttle for half a second.

Exactly, except that if a Light is kicked by an Assault, that thing is going to not only suffer a lot of damage, but likely get knocked over. But alas, this isn't like the games of old that made more sense, or like the tabletop counterpart in which this was created, but even if the kick didn't do much damage, it could at least get them away form you, or if you took a bit more time to kick just have it do more damage to punish them for it.


Otherwise, whats the point of a larger, more powerful mech, when you can have a little speedster just sit underneath it and destroy it as though it were nothing.

I don't even fear an Assault when I'm in the Lynx, because know I can just roll up against them and theres really not too much they can do about it unless they have a force already with them. I guess I just miss the days when you saw a big mech, your first thought is: "Oh crap...yeah I can't fight that, its either gonna shoot the trash outta me, knock me down with a heavy shot and stomp me to death, or just throw me into something." That last one being from tabletop of course. But in the older games, if you boosted upward and landed on someone with a "drop kick" then you did a good bit of damage.

[PocketYoda]

All these tears.. Even if PGI nerf machine guns into the ground so no one ever used them again (wont happen) lights will be just as dangerous as they ever were before the mlx G and piranhas arrived.. They just wont be able to exploit boating of no heat machine guns with super crit..

[Battlemaster56]

Samial, on 08 April 2018 - 05:32 AM, said:

All these tears.. Even if PGI nerf machine guns into the ground so no one ever used them again (wont happen) lights will be just as dangerous as they ever were before the mlx G and piranhas arrived.. They just wont be able to exploit boating of no heat machine guns with super crit..

Good Grief stop stroking yourself it disgusting and no one want to see that. And if they nerf mg's to the ground won't stop lights from making you easy prey on the field if you don't adapt or atleast equip some protection from such things like lights.

Also exploit boating of a weapon, man can we also nerf lasers, ballistics, and missiles while at because they exploiting no ammo, multi range, high alpha mechanics while having no niche gimmick? Seriously I get it sucks that your weapons got crit'd and it's a pain but calling it an exploit then why haven't their been a huge wave of bans following the discovery of this exploit?
Let me tell you why there isn't any.... There is none, and it's all in your head like how lurms are op to certain players but once they actually learn to counter it or how to deal with it becomes a nonissue.

You can play for fun and improve your skill that's what I do most of the time, but if you can't do a small amount of improving you gonna lose your self in a endless loop of being killed by something repeatedly and crying for nerfs because A killed B, or A can do but B can't.

Seriously this becoming way stupider than the whole Gauss PPC combo debate, and why can't lights have anything that gonna be nerf repeatedly literally let the class have something for them, mediums barely have an existence, heavies are still god like and nearly perfect, assaults are still destructive and powerful especially in the right hands.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Battlemaster56, on 08 April 2018 - 06:18 AM, said:

Good Grief stop stroking yourself it disgusting and no one want to see that. And if they nerf mg's to the ground won't stop lights from making you easy prey on the field if you don't adapt or atleast equip some protection from such things like lights.

Also exploit boating of a weapon, man can we also nerf lasers, ballistics, and missiles while at because they exploiting no ammo, multi range, high alpha mechanics while having no niche gimmick? Seriously I get it sucks that your weapons got crit'd and it's a pain but calling it an exploit then why haven't their been a huge wave of bans following the discovery of this exploit?
Let me tell you why there isn't any.... There is none, and it's all in your head like how lurms are op to certain players but once they actually learn to counter it or how to deal with it becomes a nonissue.

You can play for fun and improve your skill that's what I do most of the time, but if you can't do a small amount of improving you gonna lose your self in a endless loop of being killed by something repeatedly and crying for nerfs because A killed B, or A can do but B can't.

Seriously this becoming way stupider than the whole Gauss PPC combo debate, and why can't lights have anything that gonna be nerf repeatedly literally let the class have something for them, mediums barely have an existence, heavies are still god like and nearly perfect, assaults are still destructive and powerful especially in the right hands.

Funny thing is, before the whole MG thing lasers also got a huge nerf, like just a full third taken out of CSPL damage and a quarter out of their DPS, CERSLs now have durations longer than IS ERLLs, CERMLs got longer cooldowns and even more heat. SRMs also got a big nerf so they're pretty much useless without artemis unless you're boating SRM2s. Basically lights just always get the short end of the stick because spuds can't aim, but its always hitreg though guys.

[Wil McCullough]

Samial, on 08 April 2018 - 05:32 AM, said:

All these tears.. Even if PGI nerf machine guns into the ground so no one ever used them again (wont happen) lights will be just as dangerous as they ever were before the mlx G and piranhas arrived.. They just wont be able to exploit boating of no heat machine guns with super crit..

and you'll be there whining about how er lasers are now the op flavor of the month and how we should go back to the good old days where light mechs used machine guns.

we've been through this exercise many many many many times before. light pilots will find a way, and assault pilots will whine another day.

[Wil McCullough]

i swear potato assaults will only stop whinging when lights are the same size as mediums, have the agility of heavies and have the movement speed of an assault.















oh wait.

35 ton lights are already the same size as mediums like the cicada and viper, linebackers are as agile as most lights and cougars move at the same speed as the pretty baby and dragon slayer with max engine size.

so scratch that. they're still whinging. hopeless.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 08 April 2018 - 09:04 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

Wil McCullough, on 08 April 2018 - 09:00 AM, said:

i swear potato assaults will only stop whinging when lights are the same size as mediums, have the agility of heavies and have the movement speed of an assault.

oh wait.

35 ton lights are already the same size as mediums like the cicada and viper, linebackers are as agile as most lights and cougars move at the same speed as the pretty baby and dragon slayer with max engine size.

so scratch that. they're still whinging. hopeless.

maybe it was mistake rescaling 35 tonners and removing the god quirks on the oxide, maybe we should tone the size down a bit and/ or give them durability quirks with a dash of weapon quirks.

Because I really want to enjoy releveling my JR7-IIC's again.

Edited by Battlemaster56, 08 April 2018 - 11:10 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

Battlemaster56, on 08 April 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

maybe it was mistake rescaling 35 tonners and removing the god quirks on the oxide, maybe we should ton the size done a bit and/ or give them durability quirks with a dash of weapon quirks.

Because I really want to enjoy releveling my JR7-IIC's again.

tbh i think the jenner f is still ok.

it's squat and it does have high 6 laser mounts and jump jets, makes for fun hill poking and peekaboo ****. that flat plane of a behind is a problem when you need to run away though. so easy to just cop two rounds in the bum and explode.

[Mcgral18]

Throe, on 05 April 2018 - 10:50 AM, said:

MGs in MWO don't work the same as they do in Tabletop, which is precisely as it should be. In any case, unless I'm mistaken, all 12 shots from those MGs in Tabletop would have different randomly determined hit locations, where the AC/20 might only have 5.

You know, like every Laser mounted on a mech
Or any other weapon, period


It's not exactly unique to MGs, it's part of the To Hit rules, for every called weapon attack

[Variant1]

Nightbird, on 07 April 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

The only thing that changes is, another style of playing the game disappears like PPC/Gauss last year.

PPC and gauss is still used and are still strong weapons. not sure what you mean by last year though

edit: ah thanks for clearing that up cougurt and alexander

Edited by Variant1, 09 April 2018 - 05:01 PM.

[cougurt]

Variant1, on 08 April 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

PPC and gauss is still used and are still strong weapons. not sure what you mean by last year though

they're still used individually, but you rarely see any combination of PPCs and gauss rifles, which is what he was referring to.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Variant1, on 08 April 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

PPC and gauss is still used and are still strong weapons. not sure what you mean by last year though

The specific PPFLD combo of (typically) 2x cGauss + 1x cERPPC.

[CFC Conky]

In solo queue qp, the percentage of assault mechs has stayed pretty much the same as before the introduction of the PIR, so they can't be the deathtraps claimed by some...

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Jounin Astray]

Wil McCullough, on 08 April 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

and you'll be there whining about how er lasers are now the op flavor of the month and how we should go back to the good old days where light mechs used machine guns.

we've been through this exercise many many many many times before. light pilots will find a way, and assault pilots will whine another day.

Because at the end of the day - believe it or not - without the practicality and realism of being able to punt them and/or knock them over, a lighter, smaller, faster machine with enough firepower to hurt a far larger, slower machine will usually have the better edge because its avoiding the damage and piling more on in return.


It was only ever equal back in the day when the old MW games took more from Battletech and had the little guys get hit hard enough to get staggered, as payment for that high-risk maneuver they just tried to pull in soloing something more than 3x their size with 3x the firepower.


Until then, no amount of buffs and nerfs will solve this problem with the most practical solution thats worked for ages. The only reason it was taken out is because the little tryhards kept complaining that their pretty mech got hit too hard with an equivalent-sized sledgehammer and fell over....like most bipedal things tend to do when they get hit that hard...

[Wil McCullough]

Jounin Astray, on 09 April 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

Because at the end of the day - believe it or not - without the practicality and realism of being able to punt them and/or knock them over, a lighter, smaller, faster machine with enough firepower to hurt a far larger, slower machine will usually have the better edge because its avoiding the damage and piling more on in return.


It was only ever equal back in the day when the old MW games took more from Battletech and had the little guys get hit hard enough to get staggered, as payment for that high-risk maneuver they just tried to pull in soloing something more than 3x their size with 3x the firepower.


Until then, no amount of buffs and nerfs will solve this problem with the most practical solution thats worked for ages. The only reason it was taken out is because the little tryhards kept complaining that their pretty mech got hit too hard with an equivalent-sized sledgehammer and fell over....like most bipedal things tend to do when they get hit that hard...

have a better edge?

35 ton lights are already the same size as mediums like the cicada and viper, linebackers are as agile as most lights and cougars move at the same speed as the pretty baby and dragon slayer with max engine size.

basically, lights are the same size as mediums, have the agility of heavies and have the movement speed of an assault.

this is the mech class that has a better edge?