63 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

I agree when someone said earlier that this thread is full of bad ideas of trivial buff and mental convenience.

Truthfully, if you want a symmetrical system, just eliminated clan/is limitation and go mix tech. You can then boat the cgauss to your hearts content.

Problem with most of your line of thinking is... B is not quite as good as A, so let's make B more like A. Um, no. In balancing, it's more important to find a niche, and to find a previously unoccupied elements to slot. That way it will introduce game diversity while not creating trivial controversies like "oh why is C similar to B and not changed to A, or is the buff to B too much and eliminated A?"

Now that I'm done preaching, I would change absolutely nothing except to increase both max and optimal range of the lgauss to a noticeable differentiable level compare to cgauss. (Like in the range of 150 to 200 metered at minimum for optimal)

The reason is that, assuming flat engagement, lgauss fire shot 1, cgauss move into range and fire shot 1, but because of cool down, lgauss fire shot 2, and before cgauss can return from cool down and apply shot 2, lgauss is back in cover, thus ending the engagement in lgauss favor. THAT should be the intent, it's NOT intended to allow players to file in on open ground and count 123 and see who does more damage after one shot, which ironically is exactly the type of thinking exhibit by the discussion so far.

Lgauss with clan tech absorption and tech boost, should be consider a new weapon that allows new battlefield (extreme range combat) to be opened and compete in a different way. None of the new tech should be consider a niche upgrade or replacement.

In the above scenario, all of a sudden IS has a role reversal and trade further. Clan are forced to change the way they engage or they will lose from numerical subtraction. And Clan can still win if IS is dumb enough to go into image of cgauss. Roles filled, diversity introduced, no mechanics was compromised, everybody wins.

And come on, you can't expect people to be naive.
Everyone knows why you want charge mechanics to be removed.
Everyone knows why you want infinite charge.

It's not even a clever way to disguise your true intention.

Find ways to carve more versatility to lgauss, that's the real way to balance.

Edited by razenWing, 07 April 2018 - 12:56 PM.

[LordNothing]

id just give it a different charge mechanic. rather than charge+release, it would just be like a quarter second delay between hitting the button and firing, gauss nodes might get it down to about a sixth of a second. sort of like the spinup on the rac mechanic, without the rapid fire. at least lower the charge time from other gauss rifles.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 April 2018 - 01:23 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

People just need to stop comparing the Light Gauss to a Standard Gauss already. Instead compare it to what it really should be compared to and that is the AC/10. It is the exact same weight and size as an AC/10 and even the ammo per ton amount is the same. This is what you should be comparing the Light Gauss to, period, end of story.

Then when you compare it to what it should be compared to you start to realize that it is actually a pretty good option for a replacement for the AC/10. Damage is a bit lower at 8 damage per slug but unlike the AC/10 you have no heat, double the range and the projectiles travel twice as fast making it much easier to hit targets with than an AC/10, especially at longer ranges. Basically in any application where you would use an AC/10 you could swap it out for a Light Gauss simple as that.

So please stop the whining about about the Light Gauss sucks compared to the Standard Gauss and start looking at the Light Gauss as a replacement for the AC/10 like players should have been from the start.

[Khobai]

Quote

People just need to stop comparing the Light Gauss to a Standard Gauss already. Instead compare it to what it really should be compared to and that is the AC/10

but the AC10 is worse than the UAC10 in pretty much every way.

And if you compare Light Gauss to UAC10 its not good either.

[LordNothing]

Lightfoot, on 07 April 2018 - 09:30 AM, said:

You can't boat Light Gauss, you can only fire two at a time and the charge-up prevents 2 plus 2 or 2 plus 1 from working due to it's duration. You would have one set recharged for 1.5 to 2 seconds so why not wait half a second to re-fire the first two? This includes any PPCs. If you do make a 3x or 4x Light Gauss boat you have created garbage compared to just adding some lasers like you do for standard Gauss.

Light Gauss inherited the charge-up from a 15 ton, 15 damage weapon that needed to be curbed. 8 damage or max 16 damage for 24 tons, plus 4 tons ammo does not need a charge-up. However, PGI likes Gauss to have the charge-up they invented for the weapon and if that's the case it should do 10 damage due to it's plethora of drawbacks over an AC10. Light Gauss require a charge-up, they explode, they weigh 12 tons, 14 with ammo. In return they get an accuracy and minor range buff and nothing more.

Range-wise the Clan AC2 is tops at 900 meters and 2x Clan AC2's weigh 10 tons with a DPS of 5.5. Compare to 1 Light Gauss is 12 tons, 810 meter range, and after the .5 second charge is added it does about 2.6 DPS, at a straight 2.60 cooldown it does 3.01 DPS. Both weapons require as much 'face to target' time due to short recycle and charge-up times. So there goes balance out the window, you are about 2x threat level with two Clan AC2's for 10 tons and 3x with 3 Clan AC2's for just 15 tons.

That is why no one in their right mind uses the current Light Gauss. It's just wasn't calibrated for MWO with the idea that it had to compete against AC10, UAC10, and AC2. It was just thought of as 50% of a Gauss Rifle rather than a weapon that had to earn a place within the game.

you can, though its nothing to write home about. take a sleipnir or whatever its called, stick 4lgrs on it. group them 2x2 (or one group works, it will only charge 2 at a time but its smart enough to use the ready set, but i like having control over left and right side independently for lateral poking). you can actually sustain firing with them with only a small delay after firing the second set and returning to the first set after cd. depending on how well you can cycle the guns, you can trim down the excess with cd nodes. of course using a gauss as a dps weapon is not a very good idea. once one side or the other is open the gun blows up in short order, so use it at range. its sort of uses the same tactics and my 8x cac2 dire (and i do agree about the ac2 being better in this role). sustain on a target and reposition when they return to cover, and if they dont free kill.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 April 2018 - 01:18 PM.

[LordNothing]

Khobai, on 07 April 2018 - 01:12 PM, said:

but the AC10 is worse than the UAC10 in pretty much every way.

except heat. ultra is ok single, use std if you want multiple. il drop ultras down to stds if i have heat problems elsewhere (like lasers), its nice to have a cold option for when you are redline.

[Lightfoot]

LordNothing, on 07 April 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

you can, though its nothing to write home about. take a sleipnir or whatever its called, stick 4lgrs on it. group them 2x2 (or one group works, it will only charge 2 at a time but its smart enough to use the ready set, but i like having control over left and right side independently for lateral poking). you can actually sustain firing with them with only a small delay after firing the second set and returning to the first set after cd. depending on how well you can cycle the guns, you can trim down the excess with cd nodes. of course using a gauss as a dps weapon is not a very good idea. once one side or the other is open the gun blows up in short order, so use it at range. its sort of uses the same tactics and my 8x cac2 dire (and i do agree about the ac2 being better in this role). sustain on a target and reposition when they return to cover, and if they dont free kill.

My experience is that the Light Gauss 2.6 second cooldown requires as much face to target time (dakka's weakness) and maybe more concentration than AC2's because of the charge-up duration. But the AC2 has the same accuracy, and range (roughly) and double the DPS to weight. That just underscores how weak the Light Gauss actually is. Get rid of the charge-up and you would get some of the pinpoint damage and pop and shoot of the Gauss Rifle, AC10 etc. With the charge-up it is more similar to AC2 dakka firing.

So, what I would do is carry one Gauss Rifle or 3 AC2's doing 3x Light Gauss damage for the same face time. At any rate that is the way the gameplay mechanics are working for me.

Edited by Lightfoot, 07 April 2018 - 04:52 PM.

[Variant1]

IdToaster, on 06 April 2018 - 08:22 PM, said:

It'd be nice if you could fire more than 2 of them at a time.

where trying to stop boat warrior not encourage it my dude

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

The only sensible buff I saw so far is the tonnage.
Anything else to make the gun perform better would make it OP as fupskels.
I guess most of you guys just think a long the high alpha line but the light gauss is a pretty good DPS weapon.
Remove the charge up and you got less then 2 seconds popping out 16 damage (with 2 of them)

[Lightfoot]

Alexandra Hekmatyar, on 08 April 2018 - 05:39 AM, said:

The only sensible buff I saw so far is the tonnage.
Anything else to make the gun perform better would make it OP as fupskels.
I guess most of you guys just think a long the high alpha line but the light gauss is a pretty good DPS weapon.
Remove the charge up and you got less then 2 seconds popping out 16 damage (with 2 of them)

It's not though, 2x AC2 do double the DPS damage for the same weight and have about the same range and 2000 MPS travel time, but they do not have a charge-up phase to deal with. Light Gauss's short recharge and charge-up phase mean you spend about as much time facing opponents as you would with AC2's rather than the pop and shoot of an AC10. And if you are not utilizing the short recharge on Light Gauss then why did you select it over a standard Gauss Rifle? No, more damage or drop the charge-up or any sensible MechLab mechanic will just discard it for AC5, AC2 or AC10, or just a standard Gauss for 3 extra tons. 2 extra tons loaded. Mechlab is such wonderful rocket science.

[Khobai]

Quote

except heat. ultra is ok single, use std if you want multiple. il drop ultras down to stds if i have heat problems elsewhere (like lasers), its nice to have a cold option for when you are redline.

AC10 is crap. I would never use it.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

Lightfoot, on 08 April 2018 - 07:37 AM, said:

It's not though, 2x AC2 do double the DPS damage for the same weight and have about the same range and 2000 MPS travel time, but they do not have a charge-up phase to deal with. Light Gauss's short recharge and charge-up phase mean you spend about as much time facing opponents as you would with AC2's

Yeah if you play light gauss like you do with boating ac2's I can understand why light gauss would suck in your opinion.
Mechlabbing is fun and all but I have been using the light gauss on my 4 K2's every day in invasion since they buffed the recharge on that thing.
The cost is just a 4 point alpha then the regular gaussapult build and I gain more armour and a faster mech.
Pwetty good trades if you ask me.

[PocketYoda]

Khobai, on 08 April 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

AC10 is crap. I would never use it.

You are clan of course its crap its ok on IS though.. still too heavy but at least its 10 damage not 8..

Edited by Samial, 08 April 2018 - 11:50 PM.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Lightfoot, on 08 April 2018 - 07:37 AM, said:

It's not though, 2x AC2 do double the DPS damage for the same weight and have about the same range and 2000 MPS travel time, but they do not have a charge-up phase to deal with. Light Gauss's short recharge and charge-up phase mean you spend about as much time facing opponents as you would with AC2's rather than the pop and shoot of an AC10. And if you are not utilizing the short recharge on Light Gauss then why did you select it over a standard Gauss Rifle? No, more damage or drop the charge-up or any sensible MechLab mechanic will just discard it for AC5, AC2 or AC10, or just a standard Gauss for 3 extra tons. 2 extra tons loaded. Mechlab is such wonderful rocket science.

You have not played LGR much have you? The charge up time is much faster than the GR and the cool down is long enough to allow effective torso twisting between shots with no dps loss. You start charging while you are twisting back to face your opponent. No problem to hold the charge if you decide to take careful aim.

The performance of LGR is OK. The crit-slot size is great and allow dual LGR on many IS mechs with LE engines. Its weight is just a tad high - lower it and it's gold.

[Quandoo]

Samial, on 08 April 2018 - 11:50 PM, said:

You are clan of course its crap its ok on IS though.. still too heavy but at least its 10 damage not 8..

Its the best. See KDK3 with 4AC shooting them all at once. Most devestating mech so far.
You can ignore ghost heat, it's so little...

[LT. HARDCASE]

PGI is never EVER going to alter weapon weights or slots, so suggesting that as the fix is just wasting text.

Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 09 April 2018 - 12:21 PM.

[Variant1]

Khobai, on 07 April 2018 - 01:12 PM, said:

but the AC10 is worse than the UAC10 in pretty much every way.

And if you compare Light Gauss to UAC10 its not good either.

ac10 is lighter and doesnt jam

[Khobai]

Quote

ac10 is lighter and doesnt jam

uac10 doesnt jam either if you dont doubletap it

but it also has the ability to doubletap which makes it better

[eminus]

LBX-10 trumps all U/AC-10s

[Lightfoot]

ShiverMeRivets, on 09 April 2018 - 06:59 AM, said:

You have not played LGR much have you? The charge up time is much faster than the GR and the cool down is long enough to allow effective torso twisting between shots with no dps loss. You start charging while you are twisting back to face your opponent. No problem to hold the charge if you decide to take careful aim.

The performance of LGR is OK. The crit-slot size is great and allow dual LGR on many IS mechs with LE engines. Its weight is just a tad high - lower it and it's gold.

No, I have played both Light Gauss and standard Gauss extensively. Light Gauss is too weak for a charge-up cycle. The Charge-up is an invention of PGI, not from BattleTech. It was needed for the standard Gauss Rifle to curb 2x Gauss snap-shooting and poptarting in PGI's opinion. (Such a loss to many gameplay elements though.)

However, there is absolutely no reason on earth for a weapon that does only 8 damage to have a charge-up cycle. That is just weird, not canon, not lore, not from any part of BattleTech specs for the Light Gauss. The Light Gauss only received the charge-up as a misplaced inheritance of an apocryphal nerf. It serves no balancing purpose, it's not from BattleTech, so that is why the Light Gauss does not work.

But if PGI must keep the Light Gauss charge-up, for 'X' non-lore reason, the Light Gauss has to do more damage since it has been pushed out of lore-based balance where 8 damage would have been correct.

As far as recycles go, most Gauss Rifle mechs have cooldown skills which are about twice as effective on standard Gauss's 5 second cooldown. More cooldown time = higher cooldown increase effects. You end up with a skilled mech using a 3.5 to 4 second cooldown on standard Gauss. Weight-wise standard Gauss is only 3 tons more. 2x Light Gauss is not a solution, it just multiplies the weaknesses.

If you like it, that is up to you, but I don't think anyone will be taking them to a Solaris 7 match with Light Gauss as they are. But you can bring them vs me, that would be OK.

Edited by Lightfoot, 10 April 2018 - 02:18 AM.