352 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

Welcome to Lurmland one and all.

[Mystere]

Mighty Spike, on 07 April 2018 - 01:32 AM, said:

You are your own fault, because boating weapons

WUT?

Mystere, on 06 April 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

12 MGs is a stock BT load out and described aptly as:

The Piranha's main threat is its twelve Series XII Rotary Machine Guns. These are a serious threat to any foe on such a speedy 'Mech, especially if a Star of Piranhas operate in a pack, and such a large array allows the 'Mech to chew through an opponent's rear armor almost instantly.

(emphasis mine)

[Mystere]

The Basilisk, on 07 April 2018 - 03:28 AM, said:

@Mystere...The gun you've shown may actually perform more like a AC2 than like an MG

As per Sarna, MGs do perform like an AC2 (i.e. damage = 2), but at much shorter range.

Edited by Mystere, 07 April 2018 - 03:57 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

**** it, if this actually gets pushed through I'm only going to run a cutefox with triple LAMS and a ton of heatsinks. If we can't have fun the taters don't get any either. Not like they'll notice a light sitting behind them shooting down all their missiles.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

ffs..

so MGs, which are really not that functional unless you bring 4+, are getting nerfed, again...
as if they aren't in a bad enough state already.

for christs sake just do sth about the 'boats', not the weapon. they are quite useless on anything but a boat.
you don't have to punish the people that still bring them outside of boats further.

[Mystere]

roekenny, on 07 April 2018 - 03:40 AM, said:

The light community have been hit hard with the nerf bat far too many times to see otherwise as we know how this song and dance ends. As the time to to kill increases for other weight classes we always get ours increased and are not allowed new toys or keep our old ones. Case and point people already whining about flamers due to solaris incoming so another <1 ton will get the hammer after that drops.

Haven't your heard? Flamers will be banned from Solaris. And that's in spite of the fact that PGI is selling a flamer-equipped Solaris Hero Mech.

Alexander of Macedon, on 07 April 2018 - 03:59 AM, said:

**** it, if this actually gets pushed through I'm only going to run a cutefox with triple LAMS and a ton of heatsinks. If we can't have fun the taters don't get any either. Not like they'll notice a light sitting behind them shooting down all their missiles.

Don't forget to also load up on artillery, air strikes, and UAVs!

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I thought Requiemking was just being sarcastic with me last night. If he's not joking then I honestly don't understand the argument against just buffing MG damage and lowering the crits. If he's trying to say that raising damage and lowering crits is bad because a mech that has 4 MGs is not equal to a mech with 12 MGs then I really don't understand what he can possibly propose to make 4 weapons equal to 12.

People also seem to forget that MGs spread and require constant facetime so they can be torso twisted against, but then again many of these assault pilots who are being shot by these piranhas seem to not really react with any sort of speed, so I can see why its ignored.

[Mighty Spike]

Mystere, on 07 April 2018 - 03:52 AM, said:

WUT?

oh c´mon, you know kow pgi handles these things.. after all these years. People boat weapons, other peoples start to cry about and pgi puts out the nerf hammer and makes them totally useless

Edited by Mighty Spike, 07 April 2018 - 04:04 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Darian DelFord, on 06 April 2018 - 06:24 PM, said:

You should really purchase one and try 10 games and tell me how many of those you actually get above 300 damage in, in Tier 1 play.

I already own them... Pir-1 is op as hell.. even in spud hands, i have a MLX - G too which is even more deadly.

[roekenny]

Mystere, on 07 April 2018 - 03:57 AM, said:

As per Sarna, MGs do perform like an AC2 (i.e. damage = 2), but at much shorter range.

Lore be dammed the brawling meta must stay dead. Long live our laser vomit, Gauss+peep overlords and their court jester the LRM.

edit

Mystere, on 07 April 2018 - 04:03 AM, said:

Haven't your heard? Flamers will be banned from Solaris. And that's in spite of the fact that PGI is selling a flamer-equipped Solaris Hero Mech.



Don't forget to also load up on artillery, air strikes, and UAVs!

I can't quite tell if your trolling me or not as would not surprise me if was the case.

Edited by roekenny, 07 April 2018 - 04:08 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Alexander of Macedon, on 06 April 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:

You couldn't even come up with one of your own?

Oh, and in case you were wondering why people are laughing at the idea of you understanding the state of the game.

Oh i didn't need too thought i'd give you your own medicine seems it worked you got all salty and dragged up useless stats again lol meaningless to me i don't care what my stats look like i play for fun, machine gun boating ruins that fun..

Edited by Samial, 07 April 2018 - 04:07 AM.

[STEF_]

Krivvan, on 06 April 2018 - 04:36 PM, said:

What if the nerf directly addresses something like the high crit-ability against equipment? As I'm aware, he never said what the nerf was going to be, just that there was going to be one. And the last several nerfs/buffs were on the level of heat from 2.1 to 2.0.

Also, I'm not really one that thinks Lights are in a bad place. At worst the shortest range lights would be in a bad place, but poke Lights are doing quite well. I'm not worried about them.

All weaponries for lights have been nerfed, aaaaaaaand....surprise: with skill tree and new tech, alphas went high and higher, and armor too.

Beside......there is always the unansered question: WHY does light que is always around 8-10%, if lights are in a good spot?

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Samial, on 07 April 2018 - 04:06 AM, said:

Oh i didn't need too thought i'd give you your own medicine seems it worked you got all salty and dragged up useless stats again lol meaningless to me i don't care what my stats look like i play for fun, machine gun boating ruins that fun..

Why is it that whenever people who don't care about stats are in situations where their stats fall they are not having fun? If you don't care about winning or losing or even how well you do then why does it matter what killed you?

[Mystere]

roekenny, on 07 April 2018 - 04:06 AM, said:

I can't quite tell if your trolling me or not as would not surprise me if was the case.

I'm not trolling you. Do a forum search.

[PocketYoda]

El Bandito, on 06 April 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

What kinda silly comment is that? I am playing Lights every day in FP.

I swear these so called stats are broken as hell..

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 07 April 2018 - 04:10 AM, said:

Why is it that whenever people who don't care about stats are in situations where their stats fall they are not having fun? If you don't care about winning or losing or even how well you do then why does it matter what killed you?

Because waiting 10 mins for a game to get cored out in a few seconds by some overpowered light mech defeats the said fun aspect..

I care if i win or lose, i need cbils.. i don't care what some database says about me.. You poor meta folks and your useless stats.. Its a game its suppose to be fun, people abusing machine guns everyday ruins said fun for many customers, you wouldn't understand.

Stefka Kerensky, on 07 April 2018 - 04:10 AM, said:

All weaponries for lights have been nerfed, aaaaaaaand....surprise: with skill tree and new tech, alphas went high and higher, and armor too.

Beside......there is always the unansered question: WHY does light que is always around 8-10%, if lights are in a good spot?

Because a lot of customers can't use lights for many reasons.. There PCs can't keep up, they can't control the speed and they are inaccurate with them.. Plus lights don't hold many lrms lol There is a significant percentage that only lurm boat sadly..

Edited by Samial, 07 April 2018 - 04:21 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Samial, on 07 April 2018 - 04:18 AM, said:

Because a lot of customers can't use lights for many reasons.. There PCs can't keep up, they can't control the speed and they are inaccurate with them.. Plus lights don't hold many lrms lol There is a significant percentage that only lurm boat sadly..

What? I was playing lights when my PC was a Dell craptop with an integrated Intel chipset GPU. I mean I buy that people who are so goddamn bad that they can't turn an assault 90 degrees in 5-6 seconds can't pilot a light without getting blasted by a competent assault/heavy player, but don't blame that on specs.

Samial, on 07 April 2018 - 04:06 AM, said:

Oh i didn't need too thought i'd give you your own medicine seems it worked you got all salty and dragged up useless stats again lol meaningless to me i don't care what my stats look like i play for fun, machine gun boating ruins that fun..

Okay, see here's the thing: if you suck at a game, you generally don't have a good grasp on the functional state of balance. "Average" would be ~1.0 cumulative W/L and K/D. When you're markedly below that, it says that you don't understand the game well, which in turn means that you shouldn't be used as a dipstick for 'mech/equipment performance.

As a particularly awful example most of us are aware of, League of Legends is balanced based on both extremes: when something is abused by people at the professional level, it tends to get whacked. When something is used to abuse bad players, it tends to get whacked. That isn't a particularly healthy way to balance, but because Riot tends to run frequent balance passes and will actually buff underperformers sometimes, it's better than nothing.

PGI has no professional scene to judge from, so they balance with a combination of whining from bad players and the dartboard. Worse, they tend to just leave stuff nerfed to hell for years on end.

[redacted]

[roekenny]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 07 April 2018 - 04:10 AM, said:

Why is it that whenever people who don't care about stats are in situations where their stats fall they are not having fun? If you don't care about winning or losing or even how well you do then why does it matter what killed you?

I just find the whole stat shaming pointless as it's merely an attack saying look how **** you are so you don't know anything when someone can't find a counterargument. Understand showing a players weight ratio if are suggesting things to a weight class they never play but even that dodgy.

Mystere, on 07 April 2018 - 04:17 AM, said:

I'm not trolling you. Do a forum search.

If that's the case then it proves my point as no other weapon bracket has been hit with as many nerf as the 1 ton and less range. I'd love to know WTF PGI issue with brawlers as the nerfs and engine De-sync kill this play-style. I swear PGI would be Tau if this was 40k.

[Tordin]

Good grief. Nerf a situational weapon due to a single mech that can boat a laod of them.. MAKES SENSE
Gotta agree with some redditeers about this, its whack outta this world!

Thanks to the effing whiners who cant adapt! Same bonkers nonsense happened to the flamers and lurms ( indirect artemis nerf also) as well

-Whaaaa I cant use cover, ecm, ams WHAAAAA, NERF daddy PGI, NEEEEERF, cant have anything ruin my 1 trick pony loadout and my incompetence!

-Whaaaa I cant stay with the pack when Im an assault or/ and have a lack of back armor Whaaaa, NERF daddy PGI, PLZ, NEEEEERF, cant have anything ruin my 1 trick pony loadout and my incompetence!

-Whaaaa I cant fore see that flamers can heat stun me, need to boat lazOORS! Screw heatsinks and/ or bringing low heat weapons Whaaaa, NERF daddy PGI, NEEEEERF, cant have anything ruin my 1 trick pony loadout and my incompetence!

-Whaaaa I cant deal with short range laser weaponsWHAAAAA, NERF daddy PGI, NEEEEERF, cant have anything ruin my 1 trick pony loadout and my incompetence!

I understand new players that might be scrubbed at dealing with the above weapon types, it can be frustrating as F. For example I find it infuriating sometimes to be bombarded with lurms sometimes, but I know what I should have doen to avoid that and I also like to lob lurms myself so I have NO excuse to whine about it. Adapt or die.

PGI needs to improve tutorials regarding "frustrating" weapons new players have to deal with and we the community need to help out more there too (even though I think we alredy do a pretty good job), to avoid whine fests that sure had a hand in all these nerfs (sure pgi could have figured out these odd nerfs themself, but still)

I hope its an abysmal nerf, I really do! PGI, you dont just blanket nerf like this. NO, also get advice from the more knowing members around here about balance, theres soem really good ones which I cant pin-point now. But dont listen to me, Im crazy, I thought you could buff Heavy machine guns dmg/ s to 2. 8!

Lets see how far into the tripwire filled room you are willing to go now. I was beginning to think after the recent patches that you slowly began sticking to the right track. EVEN possibly not ban flamers in S7 outright but hopefully rework it to a fairer function and still have it being useful. I thought I could relax a bit now, and know things might actually click into place. Then this dumpster news fire hit. Good grief.

Gotta say a big thanks to whiners, really PGI can trip themself just fine some of the time, no need to drown them in the whine sea so they listen to you also.

Well my bail-out of madness card for a game I otherwise love and have hope for, for a while until the cog wheels at hamster HQ starts making sense again, is Battletech. Good lords and ladies, I look forward to it!

Im frustrated, might be overreacting and sure Im rambling. but this one takes the frigging cake... Its kinda terrifying the balance rollercoaster...

Edited by Tordin, 07 April 2018 - 05:03 AM.

[Zergling]

ShadowFire, on 06 April 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:

Rear/Top armor only with the speed of a jet/helo behind it.

visionGT4, on 06 April 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

And as you know those Apaches killing armor from a hover are utilising heavy ATGM's. The only guns killing MBT's are of the high pressure 120mm - 125mm type firing APFSDS-DU/T.

Not entirely correct; while ATGMs and tank main guns are the preferred anti-armor weapon these days, modern 25-30mm cannon still are a threat to MBT side, rear and top armor.

25mm M242 Bushmaster firing M919 APFSDS hits around 100mm penetration at 100 meters and 0 degrees from vertical, while 30mm GAU-8 with PGU-14/B API hits somewhere around 100-120mm at the same.

The side hull armor of T-54, T-55 and T-62 is only 80mm. The A-10 with 30mm GAU-8 could achieve penetrations against these tank in a shallow dive at 500-1000 meters range, but struggled outside of those conditions.
The base side hull armor of T-64, T-72, T-80 and T-90s are only 80mm too, but they frequently (especially later models) have thicker skirts that give them greater side protection, rendering their sides largely immune to the GAU-8.

Western MBTs like the M1 Abrams and Leopard 2 have side armor as thin as 40mm in the engine bay area, with only thin sheet skirts to increase protection there; 25-30mm cannon can achieve penetration from wide angles and ranges.
The crew and ammunition areas of the hull are considerably greater protected, in addition to thick heavy ballistic skirts, so penetration are unlikely to occur there.

Further, both Soviet/Russian and Western tanks have weak engine deck armor in the 15-30mm range; an aircraft in a 30 degree dive would be impacting those sections at a 60 degree from vertical angle, and 30mm cannon is perfectly capable of achieving penetrations under those conditions.


The AH-64 Apache's 30mm M230 fires a considerably weaker cartridge than the GAU-8, so it does not normally fire kinetic armor piercing munitions, instead firing a dual-purpose shaped charge projectile.
It's penetration is probably only in the 50-60mm range at best, so side armor penetrations are unlikely, but engine deck penetrations are still possible.


And higher caliber autocannons are becoming common on IFVs around the world; the Swedish CV90 has 35mm, 40mm and 50mm gun options, the new British Ajax has a 40mm and Russia intends a 57mm for their T-15 and Kurganets-25.
IFV autocannons are usually much slower firing than aircraft autocannons though; they rarely break 1000 RPM, while aircraft autocannon can be anywhere from two to six times as fast firing.


However, despite being possible for modern autocannons to kill MBTs, they are not preferred weapons for doing so; aircraft have to fly very low and in a predictable path for a strafing attack (which would result in very high casualties for attack aircraft in a high air-defense threat environment), while IFVs would be destroyed by the MBT before they could achieve the angles and range at which they could achieve a penetration.

Autocannons on IFVs are preferred instead as a soft target weapon, light anti-armor weapon (eg, other IFVs) and anti-aircraft weapon.

visionGT4, on 06 April 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

A GAU 8 gun system including the gun itself, hydraulics and ammunition weighs well over half a ton. That aint (and has never) swiss cheesed any MBT from the front (which is the only facing that matters in a peer level confrontation).

Edit: moral of the story MG's as anti mech weapons are dumb. There's two things I cant buy into as far as battletech goes, first being MG's as anti mech weapons, second VTOL's - they can barely survive the 21st century battlefield. They have no place on battlefields of the 31'st century

kuma8877, on 06 April 2018 - 07:27 PM, said:

Do you know that they've fit the GAU-8 into a pod for other planes to augment their anti ground capabilities, can't be all that much heavier, dry vs wet (hydaulic fluid present) without ammo.

It was a modified version of the GAU-8 with barrels reduced from 7 to 4, reducing its maximum rate of fire from 3900 to 2400 RPM.
The weapon itself weighed 151 kg, and was used in the GPU-5/A gunpod that weighed 600 kg without ammunition.

[Dirkdaring]

Wow you people must be new here.

Every single weapon system in the game that been boated has been nerfed, from PPCs to gauss rifles to LRMs to lasers.

If you didn't see this coming... well I donno what to tell you other than welcome to MWO.