352 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

I was thinking of buying the Cipher, but without MGs as they are now I don't think it has any special value. I'll have to see what happens. Clan nerfs can be pretty gruesome. Like Clan LRM suckage that requires Assault mechs only to use them now.

[Chrome Magnus]

UnofficialOperator, on 06 April 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

Haha time to refund the pir and funnel it into AAA games

So refund because the crutch (notice "pir") is being removed...

That said, PGI please just SLIGHTLY nerf the Piranha and not MG's in general. Maybe a SMALL nerf to ROF or something.

[Mcgral18]

MechaBattler, on 06 April 2018 - 05:19 PM, said:

Well I'm thinking that it's really more an issue with the Clan version being only .25 tons. I'm hoping they'll leave the IS MGs alone. It would make up for the tech disparity.

The isMGs are already pretty mediocre
My Arrow feels much less effective than my ShadCat, yet pays so much more tonnage for weaponry


isMGs could use a hefty boost to compare with Clam MGs
All MGs could stand to lose Crits and gain Damage, or items have increased HP to counteract the "Crit Seekers"

[VXJaeger]

It just circle of mechlife. All new mechs get nerfed when PGI need to sell new ones, has been so since 2013 when PGI wanted to sell CTF-IM and gave it HUGE UAC-quirks to make it desirable. After sales were done, quirks disappeared.
This shady businessmodel is why no-one shouldn't buy any mechpacks, just play with F2P-content. PGI has done this so many times, that I'm starting to see option fog lawsuit here. They sell you Mercedes, and after few months they change it to Lada by they own decision. EULA is what it is, but this nerf-behaviour has become such standart procedure that it can be seen as malicious misleading and breaking of promise to customers.

Edited by VXJaeger, 08 April 2018 - 12:15 AM.

[Black Ivan]

And so it works

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 06 April 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

No MG itself has big issue in regards to its critting. This is just like the time when PGI nerfed LRMs even when they were bad, cause both LRMs and MGs are not fun to fight against, due to certain part of their mechanics--even if the weapons themselves are considered not OP. Which is why HGR nerf might also be coming soon.

Oooooooooooooooh C'OOOOOOOOOOOON

Don't tell us that, for instance, the ember is a big issue 'cause it can have 4 (FOUR) mg!!

AND YOU KNOW IT: LRM are not fun to play against for potatoes and never has benn an issue for average to good players.

Beside the crit instead of pure dmg gives more variety and fun to the game.

And beside, the piranha IS NOT an issue because it's a freaking 20 TONNER!!! WTF! with a single shot it is instagibbed!!!!!
The lynx? it has arms made of butter!! LOL

But potatoes canot aim, cannot pilot.

SO, at the end of the day, PGI still wants to balance mwo for the potatoes.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 08 April 2018 - 12:32 AM.

[Vonbach]

Piranha is getting nerfed?! Hahahahahahahahaha. Cry harder clanners your tears sustain me.

Edited by Vonbach, 08 April 2018 - 12:28 AM.

[El Bandito]

Stefka Kerensky, on 08 April 2018 - 12:22 AM, said:

Oooooooooooooooh C'OOOOOOOOOOOON

Don't tell us that, for instance, the ember is a big issue 'cause it can have 4 (FOUR) mg!!

The problem is the BOATING without any neg. issue. AND YOU KNOW IT: LRM are not fun to play against for potatoes and never has benn an issue for average to good players.

Beside the crit instead of pure dmg gives more variety and fun to the game.

Well yeah boating is the main issue, but also the weapon system themselves have mechanics that gets out of control when boated. PGI needs to implement a penalty of sorts on such builds, but that will certainly piss off a lot of players.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 April 2018 - 12:30 AM.

[Dogstar]

Mystere, on 07 April 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

And for the N^th time, the 12MG piranha is a stock BT build, not an exploit. <smh>

Sorry Mystere but you don't understand me. While the Piranha is found in a TRO (thus a 'stock' build) it still exploits the TT build rules to min max MG boating, which is the single most powerful weapon for it's tonnage/heat (i.e. anything except range).

You really should understand this usage of the word exploit.

As I've also said before MG boating in TT is partially mitigated by the random hit location rules and the fact that if you field a Piranha your opponents will eventually stop playing with you because it's an OP PoS. MG boating in MWO is completely unbalanced because PGI are too frickin lazy to actually implement anything other than pinpoint fire for all weapon systems.

Edited by Dogstar, 08 April 2018 - 01:13 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Dogstar, on 08 April 2018 - 01:12 AM, said:

Sorry Mystere but you don't understand me. While the Piranha is found in a TRO (thus a 'stock' build) it still exploits the TT build rules to min max MG boating, which is the single most powerful weapon for it's tonnage/heat (i.e. anything except range).

The problems with that assertion are:

1.) "min maxing" is not the same as "exploiting"

2.) the actual TT build rules don't have much to "exploit" in the first place because they don't have that many restrictions outside "available crit slot space and available tonnage". Actual restrictions only ever come into play under campaign rules ... and even then you still can do pretty much everything except building your own mech design from "ingame perspective".

Dogstar, on 08 April 2018 - 01:12 AM, said:

You really should understand this usage of the word exploit.

Considering that people commonly talk about an "exploit" whenever someone does something that the original designer/developer didn't intend there's a bit of a problem with calling something an "exploit" that was created by that original designer/developer as well.

Dogstar, on 08 April 2018 - 01:12 AM, said:

As I've also said before MG boating in TT is partially mitigated by the random hit location rules and the fact that if you field a Piranha your opponents will eventually stop playing with you because it's an OP PoS.

Let's just say that that your mitigation typically goes straight out of the window once machine gun arrays are allowed into the game. As far as an opponent no longer playing with someone who fields an Piranha: Haven't seen that happen

Dogstar, on 08 April 2018 - 01:12 AM, said:

MG boating in MWO is completely unbalanced because PGI are too frickin lazy to actually implement anything other than pinpoint fire for all weapon systems.

You are aware that machine guns in MWO do have spread => no poinpoint fire / damage there.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 08 April 2018 - 01:44 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Originally my complaint with mg's were that innersphere could only bring 4 on a light and they weighed double. The critlynx came in to existence and could do 8 as well as the cheetah. Then the Piranha came with the ability to do 12 .. it just got ridiculous.

[C E Dwyer]

Nightbird, on 07 April 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

Lore

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha

yeah but lore's an ***, it was broken in TT as well, and it didn't have pin point

[C E Dwyer]

Stefka Kerensky, on 08 April 2018 - 12:22 AM, said:

SO, at the end of the day, PGI still wants to balance mwo for the potatoes.

There are more potatoes that are going to become wales, than comp players that usually only buy mechs likely to perform well, so why is this surprising.

[Mainhunter]

Darian DelFord, on 06 April 2018 - 04:35 PM, said:

All because assaults make conscious decisions to gimp themselves against piranha's and any other light mech.

As if a med would last much longer. When a Pir walks through 2x Assault legs, including structure, inside 15-20 sec. than what will it do against a Hunchie?

[Alexander of Macedon]

Samial, on 07 April 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

I don't suck at the game.

As you can see "by my Stats" i play all the tiers of mechs, i am not in a unit so i only QP with pugs which effects my "stats" and makes me look like a poor performer because my teams are daily.. People who drop with teams are padding their stats..

I know exactly how the game works i've been here on and off for 3 years, and yes i've seen firestarters in QP because i occasionally run them there.

That said i do fine in lights.. I actually enjoy lights very much my favorites are the Osiris and Urbies, i also use Commandos and wolfhounds but i almost own every single light made in game.. I still have no Ravens and Cougars though..

I have no issues with lights in general or piranhas, my issue is the machine gun boating of all clan mechs.. not the lights using them, i can play with no issues thanks.

That said when i said bad PCs i meant bad internet as in latency and bad fps you cannot play a light in those conditions you can play a lurm boat though.

I've never joined a unit. I've never dropped in a group (apart from two matches last year with a friend). I used to play on a godawful Dell craptop with an Intel integrated graphics chipset and 100+ms ping even on NA. I also play all tiers of 'mechs.

I'm trying to be as nice as I can about this, but it's not really easy to do. If you've really been playing for 3+ years you have even less of an excuse for barely managing one kill every two matches, for barely breaking 200MS, for rarely managing to even hit an even 1:1 W/L.

You can place a little blame on bad QP teams, but over statistically large samples of matches the only consistent factor is you. My stats for last season were garbage, only 0.83 WL and 1.44 K/D. I'd just come back from a long break and played a lot of matches in stuff I hadn't skilled out and stuff with joke builds. Yeah, I had a lot of bad teams, but everyone constantly has bad teams. My drop that season was because I was playing badly and running bad builds.

[Iron Heel]

With the boarder line threat to MGs due to the MLX and the ACH months ago, who didnt see this coming with the new PIR?

I've grown soo tired of the "hey look, new mech --> new meta --> neft it --> hey look, another new mech" cycle PGI has adopted.

Edited by Iron Heel, 08 April 2018 - 05:13 AM.

[Kroete]

12 heatless dps for 3 tons is the problem.

4 cac5 give also 12 dps, but with 3,37h/s (without ghostheat).

Giving more then 4 mgs around 0,3 ghostheat would balance them more (12 dps for 3,6 heat/s)

Edited by Kroete, 08 April 2018 - 04:58 AM.

[PocketYoda]

Zergling, on 07 April 2018 - 08:00 PM, said:

I have all those issues and more, and am also Tier 1 so I face tougher opposition, yet I still have considerably better stats than you.
And I'm faaaaaaar from a top player in this game, I'm not even remotely in the same league as the top 1%.

I do not intend to belittle you; I'm stating this because the first step to improving is to acknowledge your own failings.
It is my hope that you will become a better player by doing so.

The thing is i've gone from the bottom of tier 4 to almost tier 2 since before christmas and i'm not even trying to, PSR is an exp bar not so much skill..

If i wanted i could get to tier 1 but i play my own way, pug only, build stupidly fun builds and play different mechs every match.. Non of that is good for raising stats and looking good on jarls list..

I honestly play this for enjoyment not to be competitive.

Edited by Samial, 08 April 2018 - 05:17 AM.

[kilgor]

The problems with the Piranha boating 12 MGs are this:

1. When getting hit by them, they tend to not register. I'm good about watching the red indicators, and a lot of times I see nothing, then a location is destroyed.
2. Hit reg and/or light damage reduction. I have alpha'd 5 Med Lasers and a couple of PPCs 3 times on a Piranha coming straight at me and they just turned yellow. The only way I have seen a hit on a light truly make a difference is if a Gauss or AC/20 hits them.

[Duncan Aravain]

If the darn hit registration worked against lights as intended, the PIR wouldn't be a problem and mgs could just have a small tweek down in stats. As is, I've had numerous bad Piranha pilots run straight away and get nailed in the back by 60+ alpha laser shots that get full burn and they merely turn a slightly darker color. Just rode around with my team's Piranha following my death and after he had already killed 4 mechs. He destroyed an Awesome,MCMII, and a Timberwolf for the next three.All hit him with energy weapons with good burn times, 2 out of 3 twisted/reversed/back-walled (etc), and all died in under 3 seconds even though they were merely yellow in armor.

I think that it is multiple issues causing the above described results; some good (great Piranha pilot), some bad (hit registration for lasers, especially against lights), and some that could be the result of PGIs game development decisions to buff the impact of lights for MWO gameplay.