352 replies to this topic

[roekenny]

Cadoazreal, on 06 April 2018 - 07:26 PM, said:

Why are people trying to compare real life ballistic weapons damage to real life armor to what Battletech mgs would do without factoring in battletech armor being insane vs current armor ?

Because it's a straw man and a poor one at that, as they forget the GAU-8/A Avenger (thing they strap on the A-10) exists in our world and it's about the same caliber the mg's use and that can shred armor and this is our tech level not future tech. They also forget it's not punching thru armor it's hitting hydraulics and electrics but they always try gloss over that part when bring it up.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

If the whole "crits are not fun" thing is an issue, why don't we just scrap the whole "mgs are crit seekers" idea PGI has been pawning off on us and just remove MG crit boosts but raise base MG DPS? Then people don't get their weapons insta critted out but MGs still remain viable weapons for shooting people in the rear and killing them with?

6 MPL Wolfhound kills an Annihilator in two shots, takes 4 seconds to do that, so the basic MG should have 1.5 DPS, making the Piranha equal in killing power to the Wolfhound while being faster but much much less tanky and trading no heat for ammo requirement, less range, spread, and facetime. Wolfhound still comes out a bit ahead tbh, but whatever.

[Requiemking]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 06 April 2018 - 08:00 PM, said:

If the whole "crits are not fun" thing is an issue, why don't we just scrap the whole "mgs are crit seekers" idea PGI has been pawning off on us and just remove MG crit boosts but raise base MG DPS? Then people don't get their weapons insta critted out but MGs still remain viable weapons for shooting people in the rear and killing them with?

6 MPL Wolfhound kills an Annihilator in two shots, takes 4 seconds to do that, so the basic MG should have 1.5 DPS, making the Piranha equal in killing power to the Wolfhound while being faster but much much less tanky and trading no heat for ammo requirement, less range, spread, and facetime. Wolfhound still comes out a bit ahead tbh, but whatever.

Really? Did you not see what I told the other guy earlier? Do you want to see assault pilots whining because their mechs get shredded from behind in seconds from an MG mech? I'm not even talking about equipment here, I'm talking about the whole torso ripped off like it got hit by a cheese grater from hell.

Edited by Requiemking, 06 April 2018 - 08:05 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Requiemking, on 06 April 2018 - 08:02 PM, said:

Really? did you not see what I told the other guy earlier? Do you want to see assault pilots whining because their mechs get shredded from behind in seconds from an MG mech?

Yes.

[El Bandito]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 06 April 2018 - 08:00 PM, said:

If the whole "crits are not fun" thing is an issue, why don't we just scrap the whole "mgs are crit seekers" idea PGI has been pawning off on us and just remove MG crit boosts but raise base MG DPS? Then people don't get their weapons insta critted out but MGs still remain viable weapons for shooting people in the rear and killing them with?

People have been saying that for years, but PGI does not listen.

[Requiemking]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 06 April 2018 - 08:04 PM, said:

Yes.

So, your not okay with a half ton weapon rendering it's victim's weapons useless after the armor is gone, but you are perfectly fine with the same weapon system taking the victim's entire torso off with or without the armor? That makes no sense what so ever. If you think the QQing about the Piranha is bad now, just imagine how bad it would be when a fully specced out Annihilator is erased from existence in ten seconds from a Piranha leg-humping it from the front....

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Requiemking, on 06 April 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

So, your not okay with a half ton weapon rendering it's victim's weapons useless after the armor is gone, but you are perfectly fine with the same weapon system taking the victim's entire torso off with or without the armor? That makes no sense what so ever. If you think the QQing about the Piranha is bad now, just imagine how bad it would be when a fully specced out Annihilator is erased from existence in ten seconds from a Piranha leg-humping it from the front....

Ah, there's your mistake. I'm fine with either happening, at least when you're using 12 of the weapons at once.

[Requiemking]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 06 April 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

Ah, there's your mistake. I'm fine with either happening, at least when you're using 12 of the weapons at once.

Ah, but therin lies the problem. You can't balance a weapon around a single outlier. It would be like if PGI decided to nerf CERMLs based entirely on the Nova being able to boat 15 of them. To make MGs useful on all mechs, PGI would have to buff their DPS to the point where mechs like the Locust 1V could rip an assault's torso clean off in just a few seconds with only 4 of them.

Edited by Requiemking, 06 April 2018 - 08:30 PM.

[Nightbird]

El Bandito, on 06 April 2018 - 08:06 PM, said:

People have been saying that for years, but PGI does not listen.

Play lights once in a while man your stats show haven't played them since season 12

[El Bandito]

Nightbird, on 06 April 2018 - 08:36 PM, said:

Play lights once in a while man your stats show haven't played them since season 12

What kinda silly comment is that? I am playing Lights every day in FP.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Requiemking, on 06 April 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

Ah, but therin lies the problem. You can't balance a weapon around a single outlier. It would be like if PGI decided to nerf CERMLs based entirely on the Nova being able to boat 15 of them. To make MGs useful on all mechs, PGI would have to buff their DPS to the point where mechs like the Locust 1V could rip an assault's torso clean off in just a few seconds with only 4 of them.

I'm just comparing best MG light to best MPL light and making them about equal to eachother while also not going so far that people are happy so that they continue to ask for buffs.

If we're going for true balance then MGs would do about 2 DPS each rather than 1.5 and have no crit mechanics. This way the Piranha has a damage bonus over the Wolfhound to pay for its lower range, higher face time, ammo costs, and spread.

[Requiemking]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 06 April 2018 - 08:44 PM, said:

I'm just comparing best MG light to best MPL light and making them about equal to eachother while also not going so far that people are happy so that they continue to ask for buffs.

If we're going for true balance then MGs would do about 2 DPS each rather than 1.5 and have no crit mechanics. This way the Piranha has a damage bonus over the Wolfhound to pay for its lower range, higher face time, ammo costs, and spread.

But again, then you're nerfing every other MG mech, which would be a no-go for PGI, hence buffing the MG's DPS to the point where 4 of them(the most common number of hardpoints for MG mechs) can rip an Assault's torso off in seconds while the Piranha would be outright deleting mechs in seconds through full frontal armor.

Edited by Requiemking, 06 April 2018 - 08:47 PM.

[Nightbird]

El Bandito, on 06 April 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

What kinda silly comment is that? I am playing Lights every day in FP.

Only because you need something due to tonnage limitations, QP stats do reveal your preferences. MG are useless when the target has armor. If PGI bumped DPS to 2, I don't care if there is no crit multiplier, but as is MG is ONLY useful when the target is cored.

The people that ask for the nerfs are overwhelmingly people who don't use the weapons, a case of nerf everything I don't equip but can be used against me. Oh well, at least the light queue will continue to be short.

Edited by Nightbird, 06 April 2018 - 08:51 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Requiemking, on 06 April 2018 - 08:47 PM, said:

But again, then you're nerfing every other MG mech, which would be a no-go for PGI, hence buffing the MG's DPS to the point where 4 of them(the most common number of hardpoints for MG mechs) can rip an Assault's torso off in seconds while the Piranha would be outright deleting mechs in seconds through full frontal armor.

Though this is already what happens. 12 is 3 times better than 4. You can't have 12 be equal to 4, even at critting things. My suggestion just sets MG DPS against everything to what their current DPS against structure would be while removing the extra crit rate to compensate.

[Nightbird]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 06 April 2018 - 09:06 PM, said:

Though this is already what happens. 12 is 3 times better than 4. You can't have 12 be equal to 4, even at critting things. My suggestion just sets MG DPS against everything to what their current DPS against structure would be while removing the extra crit rate to compensate.

2 DPS, which would be pretty crazy at chewing though armor from the front. Imagine a 24DPS no heat piranha... scary as hell.

The compromise before was... MG will be useless against armor... but! we will make it do extra damage on open components, such as the rear shots, to reward lights for positioning. Where we will be after a third PGI nerf... I don't know. (1st spread, 2nd crit)

[Requiemking]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 06 April 2018 - 09:06 PM, said:

Though this is already what happens. 12 is 3 times better than 4. You can't have 12 be equal to 4, even at critting things. My suggestion just sets MG DPS against everything to what their current DPS against structure would be while removing the extra crit rate to compensate.

But again, no one would use them, people would whine about MGs being useless again, then PGI would either:

1) revert to previous settings,

or,

2) Buff DPS to the point where MGs stop being useless for everything but the Piranha, in other words, to the point where 4 MGs rip an Assault's torso off in seconds.

There really is no way to remove MG crit mechanics and have them be useful on everything besides the mech that can boat an insane number of them without buffing their DPS to insane levels. Just accept it.

[Armored Yokai]

WTF MGuns aren't OP, it's just the lights who use them that make it difficult to counter.

[Requiemking]

Armored Yokai, on 06 April 2018 - 09:13 PM, said:

WTF MGuns aren't OP, it's just the lights who use them that make it difficult to counter.

Tell that to the guy who thinks that balancing a Piranha's DPS with 12 MGs against a Wolfhound's DPS with 6 MPLs is a good idea.

[The6thMessenger]

Requiemking, on 06 April 2018 - 09:15 PM, said:

Tell that to the guy who thinks that balancing a Piranha's DPS with 12 MGs against a Wolfhound's DPS with 6 MPLs is a good idea.

That's insane, Wolfhound is pokey with more armor, it has different playstyle.

Now if it were balanced with 4-MG locust vs 12-MG piranha, probably it's okay.

[UnofficialOperator]

If MGs are so OP, why didn't PGI think of this before they release a 20 TON MECH with so many ballistic points? Or did they? But the alternative doesn't bear thinking.

All I see is PGI slapping themselves in the face now anyway.