69 replies to this topic

[Clownwarlord]

Well it hasn't been a full year but come May it will have been since the great engine de-sync and the skill tree was added. So both big changes to the game what is your opinion on the two subjects?

My opinion on the engine de-sync ... the more time passes the more I hate it.

Skill tree ... alright, cost a lot and wish the nodes where cheaper or only cost xp but alright.

[K O Z A K]

I hated it then, and I still hate it now

desync killed so many mechs, rip timbawolf made 100 tonners useless

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

the de-sync in-itself was good. the things they did on top of that were not, in many cases.

de-sync put an end to the "arms race" in engines. being able to run my grashopper or warhammer with a little (by last years standards) engine and still able to twist etc fast IS REALLY GOOD.

not being able to twist etc my 100tonners -looking at my spiritbear especially- is BEYOND BAD.


so.. as so often: a good idea in general they had there - but as usual, a half-a$$ed implementation which left especially the 100t mechs dead in the water, concering twist- and accell-rates.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 07 April 2018 - 06:05 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Desync is great since it made small engines a viable choice and prevented heavier classes from moving like a lighter class just by picking a large engine. Low engine caps became much less crippling as well.

Some mechs being given too little agility is another problem that should be judged and fixed separately.

Skill tree has a lot of flaws and disturbed balance a lot, but i stll prefer it over the old system which i think was a lot worse.

Edited by Sjorpha, 07 April 2018 - 06:47 AM.

[Dogstar]

Did they make any agility changes to any mechs to compensate for the engine de-sync in the last year? Seems to me that they simply implemented it and then forgot about it.

[Rick T Dangerous]

Theoretically ED and ST are good. Unfortunately PGI is using them for their nerf/buff meta game.

RIP KDK. And: why the hell did they (ab)use engine desync to nerf omnimechs like the Timberwolf and the Night Gyr?

[The Basilisk]

Dogstar, on 07 April 2018 - 07:36 AM, said:

Did they make any agility changes to any mechs to compensate for the engine de-sync in the last year? Seems to me that they simply implemented it and then forgot about it.

No actually there where a number of mechs that got more mobile in relation to the Clan big engine monsters like Kodiak that where totaly overpowered because they where able to bring 350-400XL engines and move like a heavy while fielding nearly twice the armor and weapons.

In conjunction with skilltree and requirkening older lowrange IS Assaults got a lot more viable. (Zeuss, Victor, Stalker)
Most prominent beneficator is the Highlander wich isn't too bad now when played with MRMs and some Acs or Lasers.

Also the decline of the Timber wansn't only due to the engine desync but rather due to the fact that there are now better heavy mech choices for Clan mechs that where neither hampered by low arm weapons nor hampered by hard wired internal equipment.

Edited by The Basilisk, 07 April 2018 - 08:02 AM.

[Asym]

Ah, the first major game de-evolution and revision to prepare the battle space for Solaris..... And, it's just gonna get a whole lot more bizarre once Solaris drops...

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Dogstar, on 07 April 2018 - 07:36 AM, said:

Did they make any agility changes to any mechs to compensate for the engine de-sync in the last year? Seems to me that they simply implemented it and then forgot about it.

eh... do you wanna buy a mechpack? ;-)

[Nightbird]

Desync was a way for PGI to buff or nerf specific mechs' agility. To do it they had to untie mech agility from engine size. End of story.

[FupDup]

Nightbird, on 07 April 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

Desync was a way for PGI to buff or nerf specific mechs' agility. To do it they had to untie mech agility from engine size. End of story.

Technically they could've used quirks for the same mechanical outcome. The conspiracy theory is that PGI used the engine desync to be more discrete about it, like what they did to the TBR...

[Nightbird]

FupDup, on 07 April 2018 - 08:16 AM, said:

Technically they could've used quirks for the same mechanical outcome. The conspiracy theory is that PGI used the engine desync to be more discrete about it, like what they did to the TBR...

Quirks didn't work right in Battlemechs. If you make a mech just agile enough for a specific engine size, it became too agile when people used an oversized engine. Personally I would have preferred a hybrid. Agility shouldn't be linear based on engine size, but instead of X% larger engine, X% more agility, it could be X/2 or X/3% more agility.

[Bud Crue]

Funny you should mention this. Was just ranting elsewhere about the process of bringing the skill tree into the game as an example, or more accurately a case study, of PGI clearly having no clue what it is doing when it makes changes to the game such as the impending nerfs to machine guns likewise makes. The history of the skills tree development and imposition and PGI's ever changing statements along the way made it clear that they had no clue what they were doing with the skill tree or even to an extent why they were putting it into the game in the first place. I think most of the changes they have made to the game since then are equally nonsensical and as poorly thought out.

As to skill tree, it has failed to cure most of the ills PGI at times asserted it was designed to address; and in some cases made the stated illness far worse than it ever was. From the initial asserted function of the removal of all quirks from the game, to the myths of asserted top two goals of improved build diversity and greater player choice, to the absolute absurdity that it would address power creep (that one now looks especially hilarious) the skills tree is a total failure for no other reason than because it has failed to do most of the things PGI claimed it would do.

[Nightbird]

I especially hate the mobility skill tree. Everything is percent based, should be fixed values based on tonnage so that it's worth investing in for slower mechs, in exchange for survival/firepower etc.

[M Jordanus Sicarius]

Good changes, in theory, but PGI doesn't have the resources to properly balance desync.

[FireStoat]

Edit - I started playing the game when the Viper was announced. I'm very familiar with how the game was then and how the previous skill system worked. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I had more fun having to buy 3 variants of a chassis to Master one of them after all had their basic and elite skills. The grind was real but the rewards of the bonuses came MUCH faster for a given single mech. Since in nearly every case I was bothering to play a chassis that I liked and would use, having at least 2 mechs with different loadouts kept in the mechbay and one sold at the end wasn't bad at all. Most of the time I would Master all 3.

The skill tree was a big step back for fun in the game. Engine Decouple from agility was a directed nerf at clan mechs and Assault mechs at the upper end. Again, less fun.

Edited by FireStoat, 07 April 2018 - 03:07 PM.

[TLBFestus]

It was shortly after all this BS was implemented that my interest in playing fell off a cliff and has not recovered.

Whereas I used to check the forums multiple times a day, and play most nights, I now have not played a match in 3-4 months and have no desire to fire the game up. Too many other new, better alternatives are now either in my STEAM list or desktop to take my attention.

My interest in the forums has declined significantly, something that will please PGI and their sycophantic cheerleaders. These days I check in a few times a week, scan the general discussion, then usually yawn and go to some other website. Motorcycle season is approaching so I definitely have better things to do.

[Ted Wayz]

Skill tree is still awful and the reason why over 300 of my mechs have not had skills assigned. Almost a year and nothing done to make it easier to use. Where are the templates?

It is still a bad idea as it makes no sense. A pilot skill tree and mech upgrades for each mech would have made more sense. Just poor.

My questions are why did they spend resources on this when no one asked for it instead of on things we do want? How did the skill tree help the game? Did it help balance? Did it make it more accessible to new players?

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Ted Wayz, on 07 April 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

Skill tree is still awful and the reason why over 300 of my mechs have not had skills assigned.

If you'd play the game you would level those mechs.


------
Engine desynch, hard to say an opinion. It helped some mechs and hurt some. Overall I think it did little bit good by making mechs of same class behave more like the same.


Skill tree, I see no major problems, it's good. For me, a player who has played a lot and so on, it seems much more easier now to buy a mech and level it. I will not say it takes less or more time, I don't know that, but it's more straigtforward process. I can buy one mech instead of 3.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 07 April 2018 - 03:14 PM.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Desync is a mixed bag. Skill tree should be checklist where you get the 91 nodes you want without the stuff you do not. By linking nodes it causes to waste skills,time and many cases real money(MC) to acquire.